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I attempt to make another fair Altair match

Sir_Ovens

Sir_Ovens

Resident Kitchen Appliance
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I swear, if this ends up in a stomp I'm switching my name to toaster.

Not the Assassi vs Lucy but not Lucemo

Mortal Lucy with the Favor of The Unsanctioned Gods and Base Altair. Speed equalized. Win via SBA.

Altair2
Lucetta Quetzl


I'm serious about the toaster bit.
 
If I switch I'm burning your toast
 
Imma copy paste what I said about this before:

This could be an interesting fight. I could potentially see Lucetta effecting her with her conceptual existence as a song, however, Lucetta has no plot manip nor a counter to it beyond her Broadway force being an equally chaotic factor. It may just end up being inconclusive due to their respective type 8

I will wait a bit longer before I cast a conclusive vote
 
Altair Info Rewrites or Conceptually Absorbs her. Her being a Conceptual Existence isn't a factor as Holopsicon has affected Type 1 Abstracts.
 
Attempting to Absorb or to touch the song makes you liable to be controlled and shredded by Broadway force, which Altair has no counter or resistence to.
 
Altair has resistance to Plot Manip along with Passive Causality Manipulation that reflects Conceptual attacks. And she wouldn't have to touch Lucceta as 66th movement can Conceptually absorb and overwrites remotely without even touching or doing anything to the target.
 
Also explain the "Shredded by Broadway Force". Can it bypass Mid-Godly Type 8 Immortality and works on Type 1 Abstracts who are Type 4 Concepts?
 
Resisting Plot Manip doesn't help. Causality manip is cool, but again, Broadway force is a bit to chaotic for it to be consistently assumed that it will work. "Touch" isn't the right word. She is a song, and exists everywhere the song does, from the rapping of feat, to the sound waves, to the song playing in your head. Altair would obviously need to have percieved that song, but at that point is is liable to fall victim to it
 
Again, she has Passive Causality Manipulation that reflects even Conceptual Attacks as it reflected Aliceteria's attack which was powered to kill Altair's concept entirely. And Broadway Force isn't helping here unless Lucceta is an Acausal being. She listens to the song, she doesn't get affected since the effects are reflected back to Lucceta. And like I said before, Holopsicon has affected Type 1 Abstracts so her being a Possible Abstract Existence or a song isn't helping her and neither are the effects of that song. Plus Altair also has Power Nullification, Power Mimicry, Duplication, Thought based Insta Info Rewrite,etc against her. So yeah, Voting for Altair.
 
Yeah I don't see Lucetta doing anything against Altair. Altair has tons of ways to kill her but Lucetta has virtually none and Broadway Force isn't helping much either. Gonna vote for Altair fra.
 
I know, you mentioned that. Broadway Force is along the same lines as toon force, where abilities that would usually work don't for the sake of the song, and vice versa. Reflecting the song wont help, because she is the song, and will be moving along with it already. The possible status is simply because of the heavy implications but no direct statement. Power null is resisted, favours can't be copied but congrats on gaining explosiveness, info rewrite is countered by type 8, etc.
 
I think you didn't read my comment properly.

I said the effects of the song would be reflected back. So any mind manip stuff gets reflected back to Lucceta. Altair has resisted power null from the Restorative Powers of the Universe and she was Powernulled by Selesia and again overpowered that Powernull and again she was Nulled by Sirius and again she overpowered that. So in short, Holopsicon's Powernull > Selesia's Powernull > Low 2-C Powernull. So don't think Lucceta is surviving that. Info Rewrite gets countered how exactly by type 8? She isn't killing him, just incaping her.

And still you haven't shown me how Lucceta resists Conceptual Absorption, Duplication, Paralysis Inducement, Power Mimicry, Possession, Plot Manip,etc all of which works on Type 1 Abstracts
 
The effects of the song being reflected back? You mean like... being under Lucetta's control and moving along with the song, both of which would already be the case. Ah yes the absolutely terrifying power of reflecting the ability to control myself. The power null may work on Lucetta's own powers, but the favours are things that Altair would need to null the gods themselves to get rid of. The unsanctioned Gods can engage in combat and effect the higher dimensional sanctioned Gods. Rewriting her won't make the Gods not want to protect her. If she gets overwritten, then the Gods would just restore her. They wouldn't let her get incapacitated like that

Conceptual Absorbsion is countered by the fact that Altair is liable to already be effected by the Broadway force at the point she would get the chance to. Duplicatation doesn't matter, because that isn't the Lucetta who helped the Gods out, thus the copy wouldn't have her powers. Favours cannot be duplicated via power mimicry, so all they get out of copying Lucetta or duplicating her is some explosive ability. Possession doesn't work because 1) by the time you would be capable of doing it you would have already fallen under the effects of the song. 2) Type 8 is gonna protect her from it. If some basic ass warding irons in AHoMD can protect against decently high level possession, then the protection of the Favours is gonna be impossible to get around in that regard. Plot Manip makes this a chaotic thing, but it falls in the same Vein as Broadway Force.

You keep tossing around type 1 abstracts like it's a big deal. There are plenty of those running around in AHoMD, and most can get killed mid high dif by a some God Hunters.
 
How would the song even affect her in the first place when it's effects gets reflected passively due to her Passive Causality Reflection. Also has the gods actually shown to be able to do that? Like her getting info rewritten or incapped but the gods restored her? Or like the Gods passively protecting her from any harm like in similar cases with Nanashi or SCP-1440

You're rehashing an already addressed moot point. She would conceptually absorb and overwrite Lucetta's concept remotely without even having to touch or see her and all her effects gets passively reflected via Altair's Causality Manipulation. Also, I've already addressed the whole "Broadway Force" stuff. It's not affecting Altair by the sheer fact that it's getting it's effect reflected passively so it's completely moot. Also I love how you include "Plot Manip falls in the same Vein as Broadway Force" but take a 180┬░ U turn and say lolnope when I point out how Altair having resistance to Plot Manip would also by default protect her from Broadway Force as it's more or less the same thing. Also I don't see any resistance to possession in the profile so nah it's not valid here unless you do a CRT and add it

Because Holopsicon affected Type 1 Abstracts who exist as an Idea sustained and shaped by the thoughts, imaginations, feelings of the people aka a Type 4 Concept. It holds much more weight that being a Possible Abstract Existence that exists as a song.
 
Because Broadway Force is too chaotic an element for us to reliably know it would be reflected. Yes, the Gods were referenced over and over to have done this. Not her, but the thing they were protecting. Overwriting, absorbsion, etc. Isn't a big deal in AHoMD. If all it took to get rid of the carnivore heart was dumping some liquid darkness on it and turning it into darkness, or over writing the house so the carnanvore either didnt work at all or was something else, then they wouldn't have had to dispel the favours by releasing the 3 gods from the swollen pantheon to effect it.

I know, I am bringing it up again because you brought up the same point. I already said that touch is the wrong word, to interact with the song is enough. I already addressed the causality manip. The Broadway Force is too much of a Chaotic Element. If Phineas started dancing, then Funny Valentine would dance along even if it would normally reflect all negative effects. It's the same deal here. You seem to have misunderstood what I mean when I say "the same vein." I mean they are both unstable elements that don't work the same as other powers. However, they are by no means the same thing. Beerus may be able to lol nope toon force, but that doesn't mean he can shrug off a Style User's Weaponised Writing Style. This is the same thing. Mr. Spencer may be able to ignore Broadway force, but that does not mean he could ignore bugs' wacky antics. So let's complete the chain. Altair may be able to resist plot manipulation, but that does not mean she can ignore Broadway force. Type 8 of this style implies it. This is the same thing that is done on other profiles as well

And Unsanctioned Gods can engage in combat with the very concept of time, the abstract concept of murder, and Non-Existence itself. The Holopsicon isn't all that special. Also, the possibly makes it no less valism that's like saying Narancia couldn't defeat someone on his level just because there is a possibly before his AP.
 
Let me bring this up again. Her Causality Manipulation reflects Conceptual Attacks. I heavily doubt Broadway Force is on the same caliber as Conceptual Attacks let alone being above it so that point gets completely moot. Also has the gods actually shown to protect her from getting her concept Absorbed and Rewritten? Because if you

Gotta love False Equivalency. Can you show me a single scan where Funny reflected concept harming/destroying attacks via Love Train? Funny redirecting misfortune or attacks to parallel Universes or different parts of the world isn't the same thing as Altair passively reflecting back Conceptual Attacks. Also you just said "Plot Manip makes this a chaotic thing, but it falls in the same Vein as Broadway Force" so yeah you were implying Plot Manip won't work but let's just say I may have understood it wrong, that just gives Altair another way to win aka via plot manip. Again, Broadway Force isn't that chaotic or powerful that you're exaggerating it to be and it's definitely not something that could bypass Passive Causality Manipulation that can even reflect Conceptual Attacks unless you can show me proof.

I'm sorry but the Unsanctioned gods aren't engaging here and neither does the profile say she has everything they have. Otherwise I could pull off the same thing and say Altair has Infinite Abilities as it was consistently stated throughout the series multiple times.
 
Xtasyamphetamine said:
Iapitus vs the Re:Creators fanbase coming up
Click to expand...
When a verse gets some plot manip and a bit of concept stuff and suddenly they think they are hot shit

This brings me back to the old days when I would destroy people on Altair vs Medaka. Of course, this was on G+, so the rules were very different
 
Altair stomps

Altair has tons of ways to incap her and all I see is mostly the same recycled arguments from Iapitus about how Broadway Force is "too chaotic". Doesn't mean jack shit here tho.
 
When a verse gets some plot manip and a bit of concept stuff and suddenly they think they are hot shit

This brings me back to the old days when I would destroy people on Altair vs Medaka. Of course, this was on G+, so the rules were very different

Iapitus pls. I have seen your debates on G+ wanking Ajimu to Suggsverse level. Stick to your highschool musical powers.
 
Reflecting concept stuff and reflecting a chaotic element like Broadway for are 2 very different things. I'm not claiming they are on the same calibre, I'm claiming they are incomparable. It's like me going "ah yeah, I have the ability to resist mind hax that can destroy galactic gods, therefore your soul manip wont do anything to me." I'm not claiming Broadway force is better, I'm claiming its different. It being conceptual doesn't matter, because in the end they are putting the same hoe back together. Worst comes to worse, they re build her out of other materials to restore her.

If you wanna play the fallacy game, then go ahead and pull a strawman on me. I was using Funny Valentine as a stand in for what I mean. Obviously he has never actually encountered Broadway force in jojo, but that's not the point. If you actually want me to go find someone with concept manip being effected by Broadway Force I probably could, but you still miss the point. I'm not claiming that plot manip wouldnt work, what I'm saying is that they are both chaotic elements that would be impossible to predict how they would interact. You keep going in for that strawman. People in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks. I never claimed nor implied it was powerful persay. It would be dumb of me to do so, because Broadway Force by its nature isn't about power. In fact, prove that it can reflect something like Broadway Force, which is different from anything Altair has encountered.

She has the powers of the unsanctioned gods that come with their favours. They have other abilities that they did not grant her, but her powers work on the same level as theirs. There is no way she could have no dif'd a relic golem otherwise. If she has shown them in this key then go ahead, I would be fine with it, but considering how this wiki jumps at anyone who tries to do anything with Ajimu, you would have the mods to worry about at that point
 
MAD SOULER said:
Altair stomps
Altair has tons of ways to incap her and all I see is mostly the same recycled arguments from Iapitus about how Broadway Force is "too chaotic". Doesn't mean jack shit here tho.
Click to expand...
Most of them can't do anything around her type 8. If you don't understand the distinction I am making then that's disappointing. I would hope it isnt self imposed blindness
 
Lancer45Man said:
Iapitus pls. I have seen your debates on G+ wanking Ajimu to Suggsverse level. Stick to your highschool musical powers.
Click to expand...
Ah, those were the days. If you truly cannot distinguish between transcending dimensions and something on the level of Suggsverse that's deeply concerning for you. What was your G+ name? You were probably one of the folks who though Altair could take on Mandrakk
 
Lol I love you how you keep repeating the same "It's too chaotic so it won't get reflected" when that doesn't mean anything at all. And lmao more false equivalency. You can keep on repeating the same thing and I will keep saying the same thing. But the point is, Cause and Effect doesn't correlate with "chaotic" especially when said Causality Manipulation reflected back stuffs like mere Flaming Punches to Conceptual Attacks. In this case you'd have to show me her being Acausal to get unaffected by Altair's passive causality manipulation.

If you actually want me to go find someone with concept manip being effected by Broadway Force I probably could, but you still miss the point.

More like you can't comprehend what me and others are saying. I'm going to say this again. Show me anyone in the verse who has passive Causality Manipulation that reflects Conceptual Attacks and still getting affected by Broadway Force. Burden of proof falls on you since you claimed it's "Too Chaotic" to get reflected back when Altair's Passive Causality Manipulation has reflected Concept Destroying Attacks. So please do show me and explain how the effects of Lucetta's song won't get reflected back.

It's not stated or written in the profile. It's not applicable in the battle. End of discussion. And lmao nice try jobbing at the users and mods for not getting Ajimu a tier. Ofc most people would not accept anything above even 3-A Ajimu due to lack of feats and full of hyperboles. It's only logical to not accept it.
 
I never claimed it wouldn't work meerly off of it being too chaotic, but by being a chaotic element. Nice strawman once again. You seem to not grasp the difference between a metaphor and false equivolency. Point is, things like Broadway Force or Toon Force play on a different access than something like Fire Manip or Causality Manip. You can repeat it, if that is what it takes for you to understand. I never claimed they corrilate, in fact its because they don't corrilate that the causality manip couldn't be consistently known to work. Perhaps you missed it but, I'm not claiming it could get by for sure, I'm saying that it is not a convensional element and is unstable, and thus we do not know. You are the one who is claiming it would reflect, so burden of proof falls to you. On a side note, Where did you get the idea that accausality was the only way to deal with causality manipulation? I understand exactly what you are saying, and I understand that it is wrong. I'll do you one better. Conceptual Reflection with Causality Manipulation? I bring you being straight up immune to conceptual attacks, being beyond most concepts of earth, and will straight up negate most things that try to effect her, even conceptual manipulation, all while in a weakened state. Guess what? Broadway Force still works on her. Arcueid in Carnval Phantasm.

Go take a look at Cain or the old man with a sack and you will understand how implied resistences from type 8 work. Making a playful jab at the mods for the Medaka Box stuff, yeah. I was more making the point that trying to pull out the infinite powers thing would bring you the same result. This is a wiki of beuracracy, and statements only don't fly here, its a different game entirely. Don't forget that there is a difference between what can be accepted and what people think is true, because a good number of Mods have varrying opinions on her. But I digress, let's get back on topic
 
Antvasima said:
Everybody please calm down and try to be polite towards each other. Thank you.
Click to expand...
My bad for getting kind of fired up here. I have a history with the Re:Creators fan base, as you can see, which is why I have often avoid Altair threads for much the same reason I avoid many Medaka Threads. I may have issues with the fanbase, but I do actually like the show. I will try to be more polite
 
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