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Hyperdimension Neptunia General Discussion #33 - Neptune VS Titan Dogoo

Damn, rip this place lol

Honest to god, we really haven't done a whole lot recently

I'm not sure how long it'll be before we actually get around to finishing, so I just want to let y'all know that we won't really be getting this out very soon (not that we won't ever, but. . .y'know)
 
Alright, HOPEFULLY, sometime soon, we'll get our shit together and actually finish everything in the profiles so we can push this thing out

All I need right now are the animations for the Tac. Gauge attacks and EXE Drives, and a snippet of characters teleporting in-battle for our teleportation justification

otherwise, everything else SHOULD be fine
 
Actually, since our profiles are so close to completion, I can share the current draft of the CRT post. It's likely the final version too.
Special thanks, of course, to @KaiokenBlueGT, @AlexSoloVaAlFuturo, @HyperNepsy, and @TheKingStrategist13 for their contributions to this set of revisions.

Hit it, Maho!
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Introduction
Hello, hello, hello! We're finally back after a year of absence with more revisions for this series! Only this time, there's. . .a sad lack of Uzume. Let us all pray for best girl to return. To the games, at least.

In all seriousness, we've got quite the big set of revisions for all of you! In this CRT, we'll be covering everything that has been brought to us via the newest canon game in the series, Sisters VS Sisters. We'll be going over new Powers and Abilities, new scaling, new keys, and new profiles, and whatever else we could find. Not new tiers, sadly, but y'know what, you take the good with the bad.

Needless to say, there is a LOT to go over with this CRT. It's our biggest CRT yet, so as per usual, there will be spoiler tags to cover each individual topic so that the OP is less cluttered. So please, please, please, don't feel overwhelmed by the spoiler tags. I'm very sorry to have you scroll through these walls of text, but we wanted to be as thorough and efficient with these revisions as possible without having to split it into two different threads as that'd take up more time that some of us don't have.

Speaking of spoilers, there will be spoilers present for this game. Like, the whole game is going to be talked about here. If you are a fan of the series and have not yet watched or played Sisters VS Sisters and genuinely care about what the plot of the game has to offer, then I heavily, heavily, advise you to click off of this CRT and watch/play the game first. I honestly recommend it just because it's such a wild and fun ride from start to finish, and the writing is fantastic.

This will be your last warning for spoilers before we eventually get into the meat and potatoes of things. If you have not watched or played the game yet and want to go into the game spoiler-free, turn back now. Otherwise, proceed.

. . .

Still here? Good. With all of this said, let's get to Nepping!


But first. . .

Regarding the Canonicity of Sisters VS Sisters
Despite this game being labelled as an "orthodox spinoff", Sisters VS Sisters is the only game in the series thus far whose events are both connected to and impact the main continuity. This is a bit of an oddball case when it comes to spinoffs, seeing how nearly every other spinoff (barring 4GO and, dubiously, Virtual Stars) has no relation to the main timeline whatsoever, so let's briefly touch upon that.

This game takes place after the events of Megadimension Neptunia VII, and there's a few ways that we can prove this.
  • The "This is Gamindustri" cutscene in this game's prologue titledrops Kurome as the "Goddess of Darkness" - or the "Goddess of Delusion" in the English version - among the trio of big bads that the main characters have defeated, the others obviously being the Deity of Sin (mk2) and the Goddess of Tari, Rei Ryghts (Victory).
    • The subtitles that are attached to the video help with this, but in case that isn't convincing enough, the narrator (likely Histoire) says "Ankoku no Megami" in the dialogue, which directly translates as "Goddess of Darkness".
    • The only "Goddess of Darkness" that this series ends up dealing with is Kurome, seeing how she is the primary user of Negative Energy, which is shown to be related to darkness and despair, in that it's the antithesis to Share Energy, which itself is portrayed closely to light or hope.
      • Rei Ryghts could be argued to have something to do with darkness, but she was already titledropped as the Goddess of Tari, and we know who the Deity of Sin is. Process of elimination.
      • The English version even corroborates this by using "Goddess of Delusion". And as shown numerous times in VII, Kurome and delusions are very interconnected.
  • IF makes a comment about this game's Arfoire, comparing her appearance to the Arfoires that are seen in Victory and VII, specifically referencing Uzume for the latter.
  • A Japanese PlayStation Blog released shortly after the game's announcement in November of 2021 details that this game takes place following the events of VII.
  • There's a Chirper post from Neptune that explicitly mentions Uzume.
    • Continuing this line of evidence, all the Gold Third members are shown to have a Chirper profile that appears on the timeline occasionally, with some references to VII thrown in, such as S-Sha saying that Vert is the 983,067th person to pull out the holy sword. For comparison, here's the statement in Sisters VS Sisters, and here's the statement in VII.
  • And lastly, multiple of Uzume's megaphones are visually present in the weapon shop. Why Compile Heart? Why? Please make her DLC and end the pain and suffering of us Uzume enjoyers.
So yeah, needless to say, all of the evidence points to the events of this game being canon to the main continuity of this series - mk2, Victory, and VII - which makes this game perfectly fine for scaling to the profiles we have.

And to address the game's events being reversed in the True Ending. . .
  • The game's events being reversed - while it could be seen as a way to argue against this being scalable to the main timeline - matters little as it stands; the fact of the matter is that what happened in the game happened, and it would therefore not be impossible to recreate the feats or abilities should they try to in a future game. In fact, because it happened before being undone, it shows that the characters are more than capable of performing these feats. We would need explicit confirmation of "oh, they can't do xyz anymore" in order to consider scaling this game invalid. But that leads me to my next point.
  • Nepgear would still retain everything she was able to perform within the game, including her new abilities and feats, as she and Maho were the only ones unaffected by the timelines being fused together, evidenced by the fact that Nepgear remembers what happened during the game's events whilst everyone else was clueless, and Maho remembering to call Nepgear "Gearsy", something she said she wanted to do before the timeline fusion. Even if the others didn't retain their feats, Nepgear would. But again, the game's events being reversed doesn't mean that these can't be recreated in a future game.
Now, with all of that established, let's move on to the actual revisions and changes.

Everything we will talk about here comes directly from my sandbox of the game (barring one particular section), where some of these things will be explained in detail there.
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General Abilities
Standard abilities that we see over the course of the game that's relegated to specific characters or groups. This will be sorted by Chapter number, or otherwise character for abilities from battle. Some abilities may have justifications that overlap with other chapters, so that will be listed in the first chapter it is shown or explained.

All of these will have references in the profile, so even if you don't see them here, they will be present in the profiles. Any Chapters that have "None" listed means that it's either from gameplay, it's already been stated, or it's from Share Energy.
Prologue
Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3
Chapter 4
Chapter 5
  • None.
Chapter 6
  • None.
Chapter 7
  • None.
Chapter 8
Chapter 9
  • None.
Chapter 10
Chapter 11
Chapter 12 (All Endings)
Everyone (All Characters)
  • Teleportation (Shown to have the ability to teleport in Sisters VS Sisters, which she can use multiple times without repercussion)
    • Every character that's playable has shown to be able to teleport before, and can do so from one side of the battlefield to the other side. Plus, they can teleport as much as they want, considering they are able to do so essentially every time you switch to them. There's also the fact that they can teleport in the dungeons, such as switching leaders and teleporting to your current position when they are far behind you, though the latter is likely done as a way to prevent the other party members from becoming stuck in small crevices, so we will only use that for justification of the sound effects used (which are the same in battle).
  • Damage Boost (With "Combo Power+", her damage increases when performing a string of attacks)
  • Shanghai Alice and Higurashi get all of this from previous Game Discs:
Regeneration (Low; through the use of Pink Idea Chips, Higurashi/Alice can recover health overtime), Status Effect Inducement (Through the use of Yellow Idea Chips, Higurashi/Alice can inflict the Poison, Paralysis, and Apathy statuses), Damage Reduction (Through the use of Blue Idea Chips, Higurashi/Alice is able to take reduced damage from Dragon, Ghost, Insect, Plant, Aquatic, Slime, Avian, Data, Animal, Machine, Inorganic, Human, and Goddess category enemies, as well as take reduced damage from Physical, Magical, and Elemental attacks), Resistance to Elemental Manipulation (Through the use of Blue Idea Chips, Higurashi/Alice is able to resist attacks that use the Fire, Ice, Wind, Lightning, Light, or Darkness elements), Status Effect Inducement (Through the use of Yellow Idea Chips, Higurashi/Alice can resist being inflicted with Paralysis, Transformation Negation (Virus), Poison, Apathy, Confusion, and Shadow Hold)
Click to expand...

Neptune

From Battle​
  • Addition to Fire Manipulation (Via "Flame Beat", which allows Neptune to shoot flames through the ground that explode on the enemy)
  • Addition to Lightning Manipulation (Via "Thunderbolt Arts", where Neptune uses lightning to strike down the enemy)
  • Addition to Wind Manipulation (Via "Upper Rush", which is an attack that creates a whirlwind to engulf the enemy, and "Tackle Arts", which uses the Wind Element)
  • Addition to Light Manipulation (Via "Circle Beat", which has Neptune creating four swords of light that spin around her body rapidly. "EX Rush Blade" has Neptune creating five swords above her head that home in on the enemy after a second of locking on to them. "Phantom Rush" is an attack that uses the Light Element)
  • Addition to Energy Projection ("Cylinder Rush" has Neptune summon a magic circle which then rises into a column of energy)
From Weapons​
  • (Limited?) Reactive Evolution (Via "Variable Sword"; Variable Sword's description states that its properties update based on the situation it finds itself in)
Noire

From Battle​
  • Addition to Wind Manipulation ("Million Edge" is an attack that uses the power of wind to attack the enemy; "Edge Wave" has Noire use a shockwave of wind to blast the enemy; "Wind Edge" uses a powerful whirlwind to slice up the enemy)
  • Light Manipulation (Via "Phantom Edge", which uses multiple swords of light to attack; "Sword Smash" summons a sword of light from above to slam into the enemy; "Smash Line" summons a row of light swords to strike in front of Noire)
From Weapons​
  • None notable.
Blanc

From Battle​
  • Update to Ice Manipulation (Multiple of Blanc's attacks utilize the Ice element. Some of these attacks include "Hail Storm", which summons an icy tornado to attack the enemy, "Shape Strike", which uses ice spikes to draw the enemy towards Blanc, "Getter Ravine", which uses the Ice element to attack, and "Freezing Blaster", which coats the battlefield in ice to strike every enemy)
  • Addition to Lightning Manipulation ("Augenblick Donna" has Blanc strike the enemy down with lightning)
  • Teleportation (Blanc warps to the enemy in "Augenblick Donna" to strike them down with lightning)
From Weapons​
  • None notable.
Vert

From Battle​
  • Lightning Manipulation (Via "Thunder Star", where Vert throws her spear and lightning strikes at the point of impact)
  • Update to Wind Manipulation (Multiple of Vert's attacks use the Wind element. Some of these include "Sylhet Sickle", which calls forth a minor tornado to attack, "Lance Spinner", which has Vert surround herself with fierce whirlwinds, and "Spiral Break", an attack that uses the Wind element)
  • Update to Weapon Creation (Some of Vert's attacks has her creating spears from thin air, including "Sylhet Spear", "Inbetween Spear", "Ruhkuri Spear", and "Penetrate Spear") - moved to Human Form tab
  • Update to Danmaku (Some of Vert's technique summon a large number of spears. "Inbetween Spear" summons multiple spears that pierce the enemy; "Rukhuri Spear" summons multiple spears of light the rain down on the enemy; "Penetrate Spear" has Vert creating dozens of spears that shoot out at the enemy with a snap of her finger) - moved to Human Form tab
From Weapons​
  • None notable.
Nepgear

From Battle​
  • Addition to Energy Projection ("M.P.B.L." in Sisters VS Sisters has Nepgear shoot an energy beam out of the tip of her sword. "Slash Wave Repulse" has Nepgear fire off a wave of energy that explodes on the enemy)
  • Addition to Fire Manipulation (Via "Hot Edge", which infuses Nepgear's weapon with the Fire element; "Volcano Beats" has Nepgear slamming her sword to create multiple pillars of fire in front of her; "Heavy Blaze" is an attack that uses the Fire element)
  • Addition to Ice Manipulation ("Icicle Beats" summons multiple ice spikes in front of Nepgear)
  • Addition to Wind Manipulation ("Sonic Tornado" has Nepgear create a tornado to mow down the enemy; "Sonic Gale" is a ranged attack that summons a tornado to attack the enemy)
  • Light Manipulation (Via "Aurora Beats", which is an attack that uses the Light element)
  • Explosion Manipulation (Via "Heavy Blaze", which is a slashing attack that explodes on impact)
  • Addition to Weapon Creation ("Heavy Missile" has Nepgear create six missiles that launch at the enemy)
From Weapons​
  • Update to Extreme Heat (Multiple descriptions of Nepgear's weapons note or imply how hot the weapon is. "Beam Blade" states that it cuts with searing heat; "Gram Blaze" states that its an incinerating weapon to sever worldly objects; "Laser Sword" states that it can easily sever steel and alloys; "Laser Blade" states that the blade itself is made of lasers; "Plasma Buster" states that it slices clean through even the toughest of alloys; "Gesperrt Berg" states that it could theoretically reach up to 7,600 degrees)
Uni

From Battle​
  • Lightning Manipulation (Via "Slug Bolt", which summons lightning strikes to attack the immediate surrounding area)
  • Limited Forcefield Creation (Via "Round Bullet", which deploys magic bullets that protect Uni for an extended period of time)
  • Homing Attack (Multiple of Uni's attacks use auto-tracking and homing projectiles. "Wide Bullet" has Uni fire several homing bullets to mow down enemies; "Homing Bullet" fires four homing bullets at the enemy; "Burst Slug" unleashes an auto-tracking projectile; "Venom Shot" releases a poisonous bullet that tracks the enemy)
From Weapons​
  • None notable.
Rom

From Battle​
  • Addition to Fire Manipulation ("Flame Blitz" summons multiple fireballs in front of Rom)
  • Update to Ice Manipulation (Rom primarily specializes in using Ice element attacks. Most of Rom's attacks utilize the Ice element, as it is her primary element for her Combo Attacks, SP Attacks, and EXE Drives. To name a few, "Ice Nebula" summons an unimaginably fierce blizzard; "Cold Sanctuary" is a powerful, stronger version of Ice Hold; "Twin Saw Solid" has Rom create spinning ice saws on both sides of her to attack the enemy; "E-Force Blizzard" is an attack that encases the enemy in ice and crushes them, killing most instantly; lastly, "Northern Cross" is an attack that uses four giant magical ice bullets to freeze the enemy before crushing them with an explosion)
  • Addition to Wind Manipulation ("Cyclone Shot" launches multiple tornadoes in front of Rom)
From Weapons​
Ram

From Battle​
  • Addition to Fire Manipulation ("Burn Shock" shoots a flaming projectile that has homing capabilities)
  • Update to Ice Manipulation (Ram primarily specializes in using Ice element attacks. Most of Ram's attacks utilize the Ice element, as it is her primary element for her Combo Attacks, SP Attacks, and EXE Drives. To name a few, "Ice Storm" summons a freezing whirlwind to engulf the enemy; "Cold Sanctuary" is a powerful, stronger version of Ice Hold; "Knock Snowman" has Ram create a snowman above her head to throw a; "E-Force Blizzard" is an attack that encases the enemy in ice and crushes them, killing most instantly; lastly, "Snowman Pressure" is an attack that unleashes ice power to create a giant snowman that crushes the enemy with extreme cold)
  • Addition to Wind Manipulation ("Triple Storm" summons multiple tornadoes of varying elements to engulf the enemy)
  • Addition to Lightning Manipulation ("Reflective Knock" fires a series of electric beams from a magic circle)
  • Homing Attack ("Burn Shock" has Ram shoot out a flaming projectile which has homing capabilities)
From Weapons​
Shanghai Alice

From Battle​
From Weapons​
  • Blessed and Holy Manipulation (Some of Alice's wands are stated to be able to ward off evil. "Crimson" states it can ward off demons with hellfire; "Pink Spiral" states it has been blessed to ward off evil; "Exorcist's Wand" states that it annihilates evil with a single stroke, and that most demons and monsters flee at the sight of it)
  • Analytical Prediction (Via "Azure Flow"; Azure Flow's description states it "has the ability to decipher the flow of enemy attacks")
  • Statistics Amplification and Empowerment (Via multiple wands; "Orb Wand" states that its magic amplifies the power of the wielder; "Grass Wand" says it uses the power of the spirits dwelling in the plants; "Sunlight Wand" states that absorbs the power of the earth when it casts spells; "Shining Wand" says it absorbs the sun's rays to amplify the user's magical power; "Riddon's Wand" states that each swing holds some of the power of the strong monster inside of it)
  • Air Manipulation and Time Manipulation (Via "Yellow Wand"; Yellow Wand states that it changes the direction of the wind, and that it is able to control day and night cycles)
  • Sealing (Via "Pentagram"; Pentagram states that its strong magic is able to seal away most monsters)
Higurashi

From Battle​
  • Shockwave Generation (With "Fang of First Love" and "Frozen Toes", Higurashi stabs the ground with her weapon and unleashes shockwaves at the enemy)
  • Statistics Reduction (Through "Brother Hawk's Claws", "Red Wishing Claw", "Rising Kizuna Attack", and "Blood Rage", Higurashi can lower the physical attack power, magical attack power, magical defense, and physical defense of an enemy respectively. She can also use "Demon's Wrath" to lower an enemy's speed)
  • Poison Infliction (Through "Liar's Poison Claw", Higurashi can inflict enemies with the Poison status)
From Weapons​
  • Statistics Amplification (Via "Rampage Bat"; Rampage Bat states that it focuses the user's anger and makes them stronger)
  • Non-Physical Interaction[?] (Via "Lightning Cutter"; Lightning Cutter's description states that it's so sharp that it can cut through lightning)
    • Since lightning is a form of energy - not matter - being able to slice through it would classify under Non-Physical Interaction, though the description seems to be bordering on absurdity or joking nature, hence the "[?]".
Maho / Gray Sister
Arfoire / Deity of Sin

Abilities from Share Energy
Like the heading says, these are abilities granted from Share Energy. Like in Part 3 of our initial sets of revisions, these abilities are purposefully separated because these justifications can be exceptionally long, on top of not wanting to mix the ability lists together in a confusing manner.
  • Time Travel (General Abilities; Mass amounts of Share Energy, equivalent to that of a Goddess' life force, can be used to travel to the past and has been used by Gray Sister extensively. In a future timeline, Nepgear was able to use up the remainder of her Share Energy to help Maho (Gray Sister) time travel 11.73 years to the past, and Gray Sister states that she took the Share Energy from the Share Crystals of other timelines' nations to time travel. The Share Energy collected by Gehaburn was used by Gray Sister to jump from the previous timeline to the current timeline)
    • Time travel is a major plot-point of this game, seeing how it's the way that one of the Mahos you see in the game managed to arrive at the current timeline, and it's also how Nepgear undoes the events of the game - traveling to the past and destroying the first IS Crystal.
    • Maho and Seely have used Share Energy (or other sources that can gather/absorb it, like Gehaburn) numerous times to conduct time travel before the game began; the fact that Maho explicitly needs and uses Share Energy to do so proves such. And on top of that, we have the fact that Seely would seemingly use up the collected Share Energy, thus requiring Maho to go out and search for more as per her statement of going out and taking Share Energy from the Crystals of the Nations, which directly gives the impression that Share Energy is what is being used to time travel.
  • Passive Healing (General Abilities; The Share Energy from the IS Crystal was able to passively and very quickly heal Arfoire's wounds after a fight with seven HDD Form Goddesses. Despite its vessel being on the verge of death, Arfoire was able to rapidly heal through Share Energyfrom the IS Crystal)
    • The way that this is presented is not indicative of an activated ability, because in Nepgear's own words, she was gathering Share Energy, not using it, or absorbing it from the crystal, or what have you. It was simply being gathered as a result of the IS Crystal doing its thing. And, although very shaky and mediocre evidence, a rough MTL translation of the same line in Japanese says that the Share Energy is gathering into Arfoire (see here for the original text), meaning that the Share Energy is entering Arfoire's body. Thus, it would be passive, especially since this very same thing happens later on in Chapter 10, albeit it isn't explicitly stated (it's more of an implied thing through Arfoire still possessing the IS Crystal).
    • This will apply to the General Abilities of Share Energy because, as per the dialogue, Arfoire was being healed by the Share Energy, despite not being a Goddess. This isn't an IS Crystal-exclusive thing; they very explicitly say that the Share Energy is what is healing Arfoire's wounds, and let's be honest, I don't think the very main users of Share Energy would have any reason to be doubted on this.
      • On top of that, the only reason Arfoire was able to heal was because the IS Crystal could give her Share Energy. Arfoire herself cannot use Share Energy as it is, least of all from something like a regular Share Crystal. But the IS Crystal being a bi-directional Share battery (between the people and the Goddesses) is what allows her to use Share Energy. It's also outright stated that the IS Crystal serves as Arfoire's energy source, which gives her the ability to use Share Energy.
      • The IS Crystal itself has never been stated to have any other properties of this kind. It only has two known properties to differentiate it from standard Share Crystals. The first, obviously, being that it can store an infinite amount of Share Energy inside of it, whereas regular Share Crystals have a defined limit, which is based on their size. The second is the Crystal's bi-directional property of being able to make Shares go between both the people and the Goddesses, something that other Share Crystals are incapable of doing due to being created for use by Goddesses only. On top of this, no Share Crystal besides this one has been shown to affect anyone other than Goddesses. If the IS Crystal had this healing property specific only to its "type" and its "build", it would have either been stated by Gray Sister or Arfoire.
    • "But she was only able to heal when she had the IS Crystal, right?" - And you would be correct. But as explained before, this is because Arfoire cannot use Share Energy and Share Crystals on their own due to not being a Goddess, something stated implicitly by Blanc, and far later, by Noire respectively. But because of the IS Crystal's unique function to allow Share Energy to go both ways between citizens and Goddesses, she can therefore use it to her advantage. Thus, the IS Crystal provides Arfoire with the Share Energy she needs to heal herself.
  • Resurrection (General Abilities; Using the IS Crystal's power as a base, ASIC was able to resurrect Arfoire. Since using Share Crystals is like using Share Energy - due to being composed of the same energy - this would logically apply to Share Energy itself)
9F6B4285-4FBB-40D7-903B-FA455500C93B.jpg

So, like always, with a new game comes some new scaling for the characters. We've got some pretty significant stuff this time around, especially with the IS Crystal being introduced. Let's go over it. On top of that, we'll be adjusting the overall scaling chain of the series to integrate the SVS scaling.

Sisters VS Sisters Scaling Chain
Surprisingly, this game was pretty simple to scale since the character roster is actually a lot smaller than previous games. Thus, we were able to easily determine who trumps who in power, and this is what we came up with.
Low - Below-Average Shares HDD Forms > Arfoire-possessed Gray Sister with the IS Crystal's Shares >>>(>) Arfoire-possessed Human Form Maho >>> Fake True Deity of Sin > Resurrected Vessel Arfoire > Human Form Goddesses >>(>) Gray Sister > Maho > Anri (F2P) > Higurashi > Shanghai Alice > Anri > Seely > Trendfluencer >>> Baseline 2-C
Click to expand...
Funny that all of them are above Baseline 2-C because of previous games' scaling. Below is an explanation for all of these placements. This will be included in the series scaling chain's blog.

This list will go from top to bottom; weakest in the chain to strongest in the chain, just like the formatting of the Scaling Chain blog.
Now, there is something that is missing here, which would have been the additional of a small, second chain from Chapter 9 (the Future Timeline chapter), which looks like this:
Future Timeline Arfoire >>>> Future Nepgear + Future Maho > 200 Mech Soldiers >>> New Mecha Soldier
Click to expand...
But the ambiguity and confusion behind just how powerful any of these characters would be at this point in time is just too much speculation and would require us to make a lot of assumptions. Thus, we're simply precluding it from the overall chains and are going with the present timeline feats instead.

New Series Scaling Chain
It's that time yet again; with a new game comes a new scaling chain for the series. But this time, instead of just adding on to it like we did for the RB;2 and RB;3 scaling chains, we're changing it up a WHOLE lot. Wildly different placements, a new line drawn between Low 2-C and baseline 2-C, and a whole bunch of stuff to make this scaling chain even more ridiculous.

So, here it is.

Next Forms > Full Power Dark Orange >>(>) Depowered Dark Orange > Current (Post-SVS) Average - High Shares Main Four HDD Forms > Current (Post-SVS) Low - Below-Average Shares HDD Forms > Arfoire-possessed Gray Sister with the IS Crystal's Shares >>> Arfoire-possessed Human Form Maho >>> Fake True Deity of Sin (SVS) > Peak Resurrected Vessel Arfoire (SVS) > Current (Post-SVS) Human Main Four Goddesses / Candidates >>> Full Power HDD Rei > Hyper Dimension Rei >(>) Base Kurome w/ Rei’s powers > Base Kurome w/o Rei’s powers >>> Complete Dark Goddesses > Ultra Dimension Rei ≥ Gray Sister > Maho > Full Power Dark Purple-infused Arfoire > Incomplete Dark Goddesses > TDoS Zero Arfoire > Depowered Dark Purple-infused Arfoire >> Anri (F2P) > Higurashi > Shanghai Alice >> Affimojas > DoS Zero Arfoire > Current (Post-VII) Orange Heart > Anri > Gold Form w/ Crystal >> Gold Form w/o Crystal > Current (Post-VII) Uzume ⇄ Base Zero Arfoire > Current (Post-VII) Makers = Current (Post-VII) Gold Third = Current (Post-VII) Ultra Dimension Neptune > Seely = Post-Victory Iris Heart and Yellow Heart > 2nd-Amped Yellow Heart > 1st-Amped Yellow Heart = 10x Normal Goddess Strength > Trendfluencer >>> Rei's Powers in VII > Heart Dimension and Hyper Dimension Fusion = Baseline 2-C >>> Warechu King >> Steamax >(>) Post-Victory Plutia and Peashy >> Fake Goddesses > Gamindustri-amped BoS Nepgear > TDoS mk2 Arfoire ≥ Average-High Shares BoS HDD Forms > Very Low-Below Average Shares BoS HDD Forms > BoS Human Form Goddesses / Candidates = BoS Makers > Holy Sword Nepgear > Conquest Nepgear > DoS mk2 Arfoire > CFW Magic ≥ Eggplant-amped Ultra Arfoire > TDoS Ultra Arfoire > DoS Ultra Arfoire > Mr. Badd > Anonydeath > Copypaste > CFW Trick ≥ CFW Brave > CFW Judge >> Linda = Warechu > Killachine >>> Histoire = Baseline Low 2-C

Since all of our explanations are in the Scaling Chain blog, we feel no reason to really go over the justifications in here, as it would mostly be redundant. However, if you do find some of these placements questionable in the slightest, then voice your concerns on this thread and we will be happy to answer you.
C79C4550-DAEB-4F4D-82BF-237C478B6AD5.jpg

No, this isn't an upgrade to a new tier of speed, this is just an adjustment to the current speed ratings that exist on our profiles at the moment.

SoL/FTL Combat Speed to Full-on SoL/FTL Speed
Currently, the verse's speed is rated as "SoL/FTL combat speed" due to there being no sufficient evidence that this would scale to something like flight speed or travel speed. But here, now we do have evidence!

In the opening cutscene of Sisters VS Sisters, we see a fight break out between Gray Sister and the four Goddess Candidates. Now, obviously, since this is a fight that the characters are engaged in, the "FTL combat speed" would apply here in this scenario. So with that in mind, let's skip to near the end of the cutscene. An explosion from Gray Sister knocks both Purple Sister and Maho to the ground, dropping the IS Crystal that was being held onto. Seeing this, Gray Sister rushes towards the crystal, all the while evading attacks from Black Sister, and the White Sisters. Maho gets up after the explosion and reacts to Gray Sister rushing towards the crystal, and starts running to it to pick it up before the latter can do so. In the brief moment that both Gray Sister and Maho approach the crystal, we can see them moving at the exact same speed as each other before they are both blown away from it through some unknown force, which is later revealed to be the force of their contact creating a space-time rift.

Now, what does this have to do with a full-on SoL/FTL speed rating? Well, let's look at it this way.
  • As we can see throughout the whole cutscene, Maho is not engaging in any actual combat. She is on the sidelines and watching the fight unfold before her eyes, while Gray Sister is fighting against the Candidates the entire time. When we see Gray Sister rushing towards the IS Crystal, she is actively dodging attacks from Uni, Rom, and Ram at the same time. This isn't reaction speed - no, there are multiple attacks sent at Gray Sister, and she is able to dodge them all. Quoting the Speed page on this:
[Reaction speed] usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.
Click to expand...
  • So from this, we can conclude that the "FTL combat speed" applies here in Gray Sister's case. And yet, despite getting up right after being hit by an explosion, and not even engaging in the fight whatsoever (which is what "Combat Speed" is supposed to, y'know, entail) we see that Maho is able to match Gray Sister's speed as they both approach the IS Crystal before being launched away by their interaction. Would we give Maho "FTL combat speed" for something like this? No, because that wouldn't make any sense; she is not the one fighting, and she was simply watching the fight, not actively engaging in it.
So with these factors in mind, the "combat speed" should be dropped from the verse's overall speed rating in favor of just granting them SoL or FTL speeds in general. We don't have a reason to assume that it only applies to combat speed anymore.

This is not to make the Base Form characters as fast as the HDD Forms (because that in itself wouldn't make much sense due to the HDD Forms being a direct stat amp of the Human Form itself) - and in this case, Maho should be the exception to that sentiment considering she has feats that are generally above the standard Base Forms (at this time) which more closely resembles the strength of an HDD Form - this is just to make the speed ratings full-on rather than relegating it solely to Combat Speed. In addition, this is not going to be a change to the actual speed rating in general, just how it's classified - SoL and FTL speed for the series is currently accepted from a previous set of revisions, and if you feel compelled that it should be changed to something else, make a separate CRT for it, please.

Addressing a Couple of Possible Counterarguments

1. "This would be an outlier because this feat is never recreated again."​
  • Counter: Firstly, for what reason would it be an outlier? Just because a feat is never recreated again doesn't mean it would be an outlier. There are multiple examples of feats only happening one time, and then never being recreated entirely again after the initial feat, and yet were never thought of as outliers. And secondly, who would this even be an outlier for? Or better yet, how? Maho's Base Form is very explicitly shown to be more powerful than the standard Base Forms in these relative chapters, given she has one-shotted a Trendfluencer (which, from the first few chapters, are shown to require several Base Form Goddesses in order to defeat) with pretty much no effort while she was having a migraine, and she also needed to be subdued by the four Goddess Candidates in their HDD Forms. Even then, Maho was still able to get up and run around after the fact (that is, until she collapsed and passed out). She is generally shown to be around that chapter's HDD-level from her feats. Her matching Gray Sister's speed in this moment isn't the most outlandish thing in the world given what is demonstrated to us later on, so saying this would be an outlier is a bit misleading as a result.
2. "The characters are shown to be running around and traveling at incredibly lower speeds within the gameplay itself, therefore it's still only combat speed."​
  • Counter: This is a case of trying to use Gameplay Mechanics to justify an argument that ultimately falls flat. This is the case for several other JRPGs, hell, even games in general, where the speeds they are stated, shown, and/or calculated to move at are significantly lower in the gameplay. But that is an argument using Gameplay Mechanics. If these characters actually were able to move at these speeds, what kind of game would there be to play? There wouldn't be one, because it would make some parts of the game too fast, simple, and unbelievably easy to bypass. The combat would be over and done with in the span of literal milliseconds, dungeons would be traversed through within just a couple of minutes when they normally take at least a dozen or so, etc.
    • I could frankly argue this for game franchises such as Zelda, Metroid, Persona/Megami Tensei, Mario; you get the idea. Each of these verses are stated or calculated to have stats that are significantly higher than what the gameplay has shown, and yet we still use them, why? Because of Gameplay Mechanics. Do you think Breath of the Wild would be a good game if you could just zip around all of Hyrule within seconds, and thus defeating the purpose of exploring the map? Or do you think Metroid Dread would be a good game if you could just blast through every single wall and obstacle to get back to the surface? Of course not, because the games wouldn't even be fun to play, thus we separate the gameplay and the lore for a reason.
  • Besides the fact that there literally WOULDN'T be a game for you to logistically play if the characters were able to move at these speeds in the entirety of the gameplay, there's also the fact that, in some cases, gameplay =/= canon. You don't see the Goddesses getting defeated by every fodder enemy in existence, you don't see the Makers being able to defeat the strongest bosses within just a few seconds because they have much higher in-game stats, etc. It's because of gameplay mechanics. Thus, the argument of "they don't move as fast in gameplay" is disingenuous and using gameplay mechanics to downplay their speed.
1F316981-E1D5-40CD-9892-7E137EB85F94.jpg

Intelligence Feats + Additions
Pretty straightforward, these are the Intelligence feats that we found through the game that we can apply to the profiles. Here they are. Each feat will have a Chapter number to state where it originates.

Skill Feats + Additions
As a quick warning, this is going to be a VERY long section, so just prepare yourself for a gigantic wall of text. But with that said, let's get into the, admittedly, insane skill feat (or feats) from this game.

Mecha Dolls, Mecha Peacekeepers, and Battle Goddesses
Introduced as a new enemy in Sisters VS Sisters are mechanical mimicries of the Eight Goddesses. In order of nation, there are eight versions of these enemies, and three types of each version.
  • Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess PN-NP
  • Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess PN-NG
  • Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess LT-NR
  • Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess LT-UN
  • Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess LW-BL
  • Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess LW-RO
  • Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess LW-RA
  • Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess RB-VR
Each of these enemies represents one of the Goddesses, as denoted by the nation initials coming first, and the Goddess of said nation coming after it. For example, the "PN-NG" version. The "PN" stands for Planeptune, whilst the "NG" stands for Nepgear; Planeptune-Nepgear, meaning that any Mecha Doll/Peacekeeper/Goddess with the PN-NG demarking is an imitation of Nepgear. This is very important to keep in mind. Now, with this established, this leads me into the description of the enemies.

Within the descriptions of each Mecha Doll, Mecha Peacekeeper, and Battle Goddess, it is stated that they are installed with the battle data of a Goddess - more specifically, they are installed with the battle data of the Goddess that they are imitating. The Mecha Peacekeeper's description states that its wings allow for greater mobility. The Battle Goddess' description states it's "the ultimate autonomous soldier which passed all tests with flying colors", and although this is a tad vague, this could be referring to military routines, training methods, or something akin to them, given that these are creations for battle. In addition, these enemies have the exact same movement patterns and attacks of the Goddess that they are imitating, down to the most basic attacks, and even the SP/Tactical Gauge attacks, meaning that they have the combat style of the Goddess copied down as well.

Now why is this so significant, you may ask? Well, to put it simply, through the descriptions of the enemies as well as the enemies having the same attack style of the Goddess, they would logically have the same skill level of the Goddess too. What I mean by this is that, any skill shown by the respective Goddess in a prior mainline game, the Mecha imitation would be able to recreate as well; the evidence given to us very clearly shows that they are capable of fighting as skillfully as the Goddesses through their descriptions and animations. To put it into perspective. . .
  • The PN-NP, LT-NR, LW-BL, and RB-VR Mecha enemies would be able to recreate the feat from VII of the corrupted Goddesses facing against 12 members of the party at one time.
  • The PN-NG Mecha enemies would be able to recreate the skill shown off by Nepgear, which was praised and acknowledged by Falcom, someone who came up with her own swordfighting style.
  • The LT-NR and LT-UN Mecha enemies would be able to recreate the feat of defeating K-Sha in VII, the latter of whom is a highly-trained military combatant, said to have been trained her whole life by them to be an expert soldier (and is even remarked by Kurome to have the potential to be the "ultimate soldier"), and was a participant of the military since a rather young age.
  • Etc., etc.
I could go on. But, the TL;DR is: the Mecha enemies, via descriptions and animations, have the same level of skill and the same style of combat as the Goddesses they imitate.

Now, to get into how we can use this for skill feats, let me first say that the Goddesses, even alone, are capable of defeating these Mecha enemies. Sometimes there is just one, sometimes there are multiple. And before anyone says that this is just an AP thing: keep in mind that there are instances where fodders can overwhelm them with their numbers, even though they should realistically be totally nothing to them. One case of this happening is when the party became overwhelmed by a swarm of Dogoos in mk2. Even though Dogoos are by far the weakest enemies in the series, the characters still had trouble with them because of their sheer numbers. And later on in the series, we are shown that a group of characters, or even a single character, can take on a horde of enemies (of which they are fodders, even when they are shown to be overwhelmed by multiple fodders at times), meaning this isn't a case of AP alone, there is some strategy involved in it too.

Considering many of these Mecha enemies aren't alone when you encounter them, it's easy to assume that it's a matter of strategy and skill and not AP alone, too. Therefore, it would still be fine to use this as a skill feat for those that fight against these Mecha enemies, which would include:
  • Neptune
  • Noire
  • Blanc
  • Vert
  • Nepgear
  • Uni
  • Rom
  • Ram
  • Shanghai Alice
  • And Higurashi
But there's still more to cover, so let's go over it.

The Arena and its Validity
Rebranding the "Colosseum" feature from previous games, the Arena is a feature in Sisters VS Sisters where you face off against three rounds of different monsters, sometimes resulting in battles with up to six enemies at once. This is a feature that's unlocked as early as Chapter 5, making it something you acquire at the mid-game point of SVS.

Now, why are we bringing up the Arena? Well, you can probably see where we're going with this; we're using it as some supplementary material for the skill feats for each of the characters we listed above.

"But didn't you just say that the Arena is an unlockable feature? Doesn't that mean it can't be used, especially since it wasn't used for previous games?"

While we may not have used the Arena/Colosseum for previous games, that's not the case this time around. In the case of the previous games, there was nothing to suggest that the Colosseum was a thing that the characters even acknowledged. Hell, in Victory, the Colosseum is introduced as a game that Plutia wanted to show off to Neptune, suggesting that it's nothing more than a simulation. Which, considering how unrealistic some of these battles would be, it's not an outlandish idea to assume it's just simulations. This would be the case for mk2, Victory, and VII, but in Sisters VS Sisters, it's a little different.

In SVS, the Arena is introduced in Chapter 6 as a part of the story, as it is Arfoire's source of revenue. Thus, Alice and Higurashi (and later on, Nepgear) are sent in as undercover agents to try and sort things out. By the way, notice the capitalization of "arena" here in the dialogue; that implies that the Arena you can go to and battle in as side-content is the very same Arena for Chapter 6.

The Arena's format, per Alice's dialogue, is as follows:
  • You talk to the receptionist to pick your rank
  • Your opponents are chosen and assorted based on the rank
  • And very briefly, at the top of the screen, there is a text that says "Round 1", and "Round 2" later on
This is how it is explained to function through the story. Now, through the gameplay:
The similarities are rather clear, that the Arena in the story is the same as the Arena in-game, thus we have valid grounds to consider the Arena as a usable aspect of the game itself for scaling. But we're not gonna focus on AP or anything else. We're gonna focus on skill. I bring up the arena for one important reason: the fights.

The Arena's Battles and Enemies
As you have more than likely guessed by now, yes, there are fights that include all of these Mecha enemies. Well, mostly all of them, but that's besides the point. There are multiple fights scattered throughout the different ranks and rounds of the Arena, so here's a list of most of them. As a side-note, there might be some that I might have missed, but at that point, it's relatively minor.
As said before, there could have been some that I ended up missing, but that would only stand to prove my point further; there are numerous fights within the Arena that these characters are able to take on, and since you can complete all of these fights using only one character, that would therefore mean that all of these characters have the feats of being able to defeat several Mecha enemies all by themselves, which would include multiple Battle Goddesses, and up to a maximum of 6 enemies which can be six Mecha Dolls, or four Mecha Dolls and two Battle Goddesses.

Every character is capable of doing this: Neptune, Noire, Blanc, Vert, Nepgear, Uni, Rom, Ram, Higurashi, and Shanghai Alice can all do this; no one character is excluded here. So, I propose the following bit to be added to the Intelligence sections of the profiles of the characters I mentioned (refresh the page if the entire text box does not appear for you):
In Sisters VS Sisters, she has shown the capability to defeat the "Mecha Doll", "Mecha Peacekeeper", and "Battle Goddess" enemies, where they are mentioned to have the battle data of a Goddess installed in them [all three], have greater mobility through their wings [Mecha Peacekeeper], or are stated to be "the ultimate autonomous soldier which passed all tests with flying colors" [Battle Goddess]. These Mecha enemies have even shown the same exact fighting style as the Goddess they imitate due to sharing the same motions of attacks. This would include the likes of [Goddess 1], [Goddess 2], [Goddess 3], and all of the other Goddesses given there are multiple Mecha Doll, Peacekeeper, and Goddess entities; one such example is the "Mecha Doll PN-NG" enemy, with the "PN-NG" standing for "Planeptune-Nepgear", meaning that the specified Mecha Doll has the battle data and combat style of Nepgear. [x character] has demonstrated the ability to defeat multiple of these Mecha enemies at once on their own, such as in the Arena, where several fights contain these enemies in batches or lonesome, up to a maximum of 6 enemies, with one such fight containing two Battle Goddesses, which would realistically show more combat proficiency than the standard Mecha Dolls and Mecha Peacekeepers.
Click to expand...
This will not be used to scale other characters' skill to these characters outside of very specific cases, as there's no evidence they would be able to recreate these feats in terms of skill, thus any character that can fight evenly against numerous of these characters would only be assumed to be equal in physical stats.

Overall TL;DR
  • Each of the playable characters will have a large chunk added to their Intelligence sections for being able to battle against numerous Mecha Dolls, Mecha Peacekeepers, and Battle Goddesses, which would have the combat prowess and style of the Goddesses they imitate due to sharing their battle data and their attack animations.
  • This will not be accounted for should there be characters that end up facing against multiple said playable characters, as they would likely only be matched in physicals and not skill.
    • There might be some very specific cases where skill does play a factor, and the best example is Gray Sister battling against the HDD Goddess Candidates; she's pretty explicitly shown to fight evenly against them, dodging their attacks and generally being able to keep them on their toes, in an animated cutscene no less. Otherwise, we assume only physical prowess.
Well, you all know the drill; with new revisions like these come new profiles for us to create, and updates to the older ones.

New Profiles
  • Maho and SVS Arfoire's profiles can be found in this sandbox
  • And the new Makers' profiles are right here
  • The Cosmology blog for the series can be found here
Updated Profiles/Pages
  • Updated Goddess (yes, Goddess, not CPU) profiles (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4)
  • Updated Gold Third profiles here
  • Updated Maker profiles here
  • Updated Misc. profiles here
  • Updated mk2/VII Arfoire here - minor changes
  • Updated CFW Magic here - very minor changes
  • Updated Share Energy Manipulation page here
  • Updated Verse Page here
  • Updated Scaling Chain here
Now, obviously, since these are just page updates, there's not a whole lot to go over. However, since there is one unexplained aspect in the profiles that we haven't addressed in any other tag thus far, I figured it should be addressed here.

Class 5 to Class 25 Upgrade
As you may have likely noticed, there are numerous profiles that contain a Class 25 rating within them. The reason for this is relatively simple, however, and shouldn't necessarily be too controversial nor contentious (hopefully).

Currently, nearly all of the profiles for Neptunia use this calculation for Blanc's hammers as a Lifting Strength justification, with an "At least" and/or "likely (far) higher" slapped next to them because of scaling. Now, obviously, that's fine and dandy and all, but what does this have to do with Class 25? Well, to put it simply. . .we can thank Anonydeath on that front.

With the statement of Yellow Heart's power being able to be amped to ten times a normal Goddess' strength, we logistically apply this to Lifting Strength as well, as a "normal Goddess" up to this point would be pretty casually capable of doing something like this; they'd be roughly equal to Blanc, who does this with extreme finesse and casualness, seeing how she literally uses this weapon for a majority of her attacks, some of which happen pretty rapidly like with the Rush attacks.

As the current Class 5 value stands at ~1292 kilograms, or 1.292 (metric) tons, then ten times that would be ~12921 kilograms, or 12.921 (metric) tons, which falls within the range for Class 25. Hence, every character stronger than 1st-Amped Yellow Heart would have a Class 25 rating. To put that into perspective, here is the scaling chain for the series beyond 1st-Amped Yellow Heart, who we can consider to be a "baseline" for Class 25 in this case, even if it is slightly above baseline. The only entities not included are the Dark CPUs/Goddesses, who already have a Class M rating, so listing them would be redundant.
Next Forms >>> Current (Post-SVS) Average - High Shares Main Four HDD Forms > Current (Post-SVS) Low - Below-Average Shares HDD Forms > Arfoire-possessed Gray Sister with the IS Crystal's Shares >>> Arfoire-possessed Human Form Maho >>> Fake True Deity of Sin (SVS) > Peak Resurrected Vessel Arfoire (SVS) > Current (Post-SVS) Human Main Four Goddesses / Candidates >>> Full Power HDD Rei > Hyper Dimension Rei >(>) Base Kurome w/ Rei’s powers > Base Kurome w/o Rei’s powers >>> Ultra Dimension Rei ≥ Gray Sister > Maho >>> TDoS Zero Arfoire >>> Anri (F2P) > Higurashi > Shanghai Alice >> Affimojas > DoS Zero Arfoire > Current (Post-VII) Orange Heart > Anri > Gold Form w/ Crystal >> Gold Form w/o Crystal > Current (Post-VII) Uzume ⇄ Base Zero Arfoire > Current (Post-VII) Makers = Current (Post-VII) Gold Third = Current (Post-VII) Ultra Dimension Neptune > Seely = Post-Victory Iris Heart and Yellow Heart > 2nd-Amped Yellow Heart > 1st-Amped Yellow Heart = 10x Normal Goddess Strength = "Baseline" Class 25 (12.921 metric tons)
Click to expand...
So yeah, every character that's above 1st-Amped Yellow Heart on the scaling chain will have a Class 25 rating for that key. That's essentially all there is to it. This shouldn't be too controversial.

Conclusion
And that's about it.

Personal thoughts on the game? Honestly, this is easily, easily one of the best games in the series. It might not beat out VII for me personally, and in the department of being a super impactful entry into the franchise, this definitely isn't beating VII, but this game is objectively good. Cathartic and satisfying character development, wild story, fun (albeit a bit clunky) gameplay, NEXT FORM WEAPONS, and awesome new characters to go with it. Really good game, can't wait to see what they have in store for Game Maker R:Evolution.

Discuss, but do not derail this thread.

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
Last edited:
Welp, sadly, it turns out it might have to wait a bit longer since the USB adapter I tried to replace my broken one with doesn't actually work without a CD-ROM or a correct Linux terminal.

Meaning I can't edit the sandbox pages (properly and correctly, at least)

Lol
 
thetechmaster36 said:
Welp, sadly, it turns out it might have to wait a bit longer since the USB adapter I tried to replace my broken one with doesn't actually work without a CD-ROM or a correct Linux terminal.

Meaning I can't edit the sandbox pages (properly and correctly, at least)

Lol
Click to expand...
Adapt to mobile. Become mobile. Be the mobile users.
 
Every playable character's animations have been added. Now all that's left is the animations for Maho and Arfoire, and I believe that is everything.
 
Alright peeps, I'm happy to report that we are now finished with everything. We're going to do one last look over the draft before we post it, but finally, after nearly a year, the Sisters VS Sisters revisions are complete.

It's been a long time coming, but it feels great for it to finally be over.
 
Fun Fact: In the initial stages of creating this CRT, it was going to be split into two parts because of my personal time constraints. But it was eventually melded into one part to make it a more complete package as well as make the page editing easier.
 
Been playing a bit of GMR:E thanks to a certain thing that lets me play it, and on the topic of the gameplay, I really enjoy it

Of course, I got no idea what the **** I'm doing in regards to the company stuff because I can't read it, but it's good stuff nonetheless
 
Gah damn, you know, thinking about it. . .we really need to get some scans for the weapon descriptions and such on these pages huh lol
image.png

Just look at how much white text is in Rom's P&A section.

I feel like we gotta change that at some point (not right now sadly, but at some point)
 
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