HxH specifically

[Amexim]

WAit, AKM, he's been calling ME a troglodyte and saying that I can't think the entire thread! He's started the insults!

"I'm going to ignore the irrelevant shit in your post because you're being an idiot."

He even called you idiotic too. Don't warn ME.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Stop your ineptitude. I said block intangible aura because nen is intangible.

1. I said that was only relevant if the aura is tangible. Multiple times. Like chakra. If an aura is intangible but can't defend other auras, there isn't anything to seep through it's literally not a defense.

2. Refer to above, Also this is another case of extrapolation of singular words and somehow saying I said that. Even if there is an iota of implication, why not take what I say at face value.

As I said before HxH auras have that element of interaction so they defend other auras, not allowing them to seep through the barriers they create. I said verses that don't have that elrment of interaction, intangible or not, cannot defend other aura. A case where it won't go through other auras is when the auras interact and defend others.

Intangibility is to combat tangible auras. That's it. As I said a plethora of times so I don't see how you warped it into thinking I said "intangibility means nen bypasses all auras even the ones that interact with others" because that's another point entirely which talks of interaction not tangibility.

The last two paragraphs were subpoints which I said I was done with. So I'm not addressing them.

 

[Amexim]

Literally in his next post he insults me again with comments about my ineptitude, and I'm the one who needs to be banned? Ok

 

[AKM sama]

Literally in his next post he insults me again with comments about my ineptitude, and I'm the one who needs to be banned? Ok

Your comment was more severe. Both of you need to chill with the insults.

 

[Edwellken]

What I said is that the energy needs to be contained and toughened, as in maintain a wider layer as demonstrated in the scan. That's just how basic aura is produced.

But... aren't you contradicting yourself? "The ability to produce aura" and "The ability to contain and toughen aura" are completely different things. The fact is that Ten is a technique that explicitly shows the ability to block aura. It's the fundamental ability that all Nen users learn in order to not instantly be wrecked by each other, and a knowledge of it is repeatedly stated to be fundamental when it comes to battles among them.

Again, energy is primarily intangible and can be made tangible in numerous verses. When the energies are able to interact with each other as per verse equalization, you don't need any proof to say that energy interacts with energy or energy can cancel energy. It's like saying two identical things need proof that they can interact with each other. Most auras already block much weaker energy anyway since a strong energy layer > much weaker energy attack. It's only when the attacking energy itself is strong enough it needs more than just simple aura.

If verse equalization says that any form of energy automatically becomes tangible with any other then my issue is with verse equalization itself giving abilities that the characters themselves haven't demonstrated. Similar =/= identical. Different types of aura in different verses have different attributes, interact with themselves and even each other differently. Something that's referred to as "aura" in one verse might be called "Magic" in another. In the context of HxH, blocking energy in verse requires knowledge of specific techniques which strengthen your own aura to do, and there are techniques that inadvertently and explicitly don't grant the same defense and sometimes even remove it. Even taking the logic of "Aura needs to show the ability to bypass other auras", Ren has already shown that by bypassing the passive layer of aura that exists around literally everyone, as well as Meruem and Pitou even bypassing the Ten of weaker characters with theirs.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Out of everyone here Edwelken seems the most correct, as others have pointed out. I agree with him.

 

[Amexim]

I've only done one, after he constantly insults me at every post. He's done this several times, while i've at worse, been as snarky as you have to him for his ridiculousness.

"Nice, more proof of your incompetence."

"Right. Lmao do you think I care? I used them to prove my point. I may as well since I'm dealing with idiocy, red herrings and strawmans."

"Can you not read?"

"So emotions is just another sign of your incompetence that you somehow completely extrapolate my argument into something else entirely. Stop misrepresenting my argument it's getting boring.."

"Don't misrepresent me, degenerate."

I ****** snapped. I can admit that. I'm tired of him.

And it's not like I can't calm down or apologize— I literally did that to Ed just earlier.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

We've insulted eachother equally as badly. I only insulted you after a multiple posts of irrelevancy yes this is what I'll call it, and misunderstanding my premise because of a couple statements, saying I said things I didn't because "implications" and so on, naturally, it gets very annoying.

 

[Amexim]

As for what Ed just said, you have a general disagreement with the concept of Verse Equalization period then. The energies have to be able to interact st times, because some verses rely on being able to manipulate the energy of the opponent. It's like saying that because the Rinnegan absorbs Chakra, it shouldn't be able to absorb anything else other than Chakra. Genjutsu relies on having a Chakra circulatory System and Chakra to manipulate that stuff in their brain. Without Verse Equalization making all energies interactable with one another, most people can't even use their powers.

And even then, it's semantics at this point. While I agree with AKM's statement— since maintaining and producing an aura is literally what he said (and while just leaking it out of you can make a similar looking thing, there's a difference between maintaining an aura on purpose and bleeding it like Gon and Killua did), it doesn't really matter. All that mateters is if the aura/field/barrier can block other auras/energy, it passes. However that is achieved is irrelevant really, as the regulation of an aura is not as important to defending against Ren as the blocking of the aura of your opponent.

Most of the energies can do this and to assume otherwise in spite of 0 evidence for or even evidence against the idea that they can't isn't really a good idea.

 

[AKM sama]

"But... aren't you contradicting yourself? "The ability to produce aura" and "The ability to contain and toughen aura" are completely different things."

No. I said the ability to contain and toughen energy that suffuses the body is what produces aura. That's like the basics of producing aura. You just having to maintain a constant layer of energy that envelops/suffuses your body...that is what's called aura.

"The fact is that Ten is a technique that explicitly shows the ability to block aura"

No. It's a technique that only shows how to create aura. Many other verses don't need any technique to create aura, they just inherently do. The end result is same.

"In the context of HxH, blocking energy in verse requires knowledge of specific techniques which strengthen your own aura"

No. In HxH, blocking energy just requires you to utilize your own energy (that everyone emanates) around yourself, to create aura. That's it.

"Ren has already shown that by bypassing the passive layer of aura that exists around literally everyone"

You mean like how any greater amount of energy bypasses the smaller amount of energy? Which in case of normal humans who can't form aura is literally negligible. Aura is nothing but a concentrated flow of energy around the user.

 

[Amexim]

No. I think you doing it constantly and pushing me to actually snap at you is FAR more of a problem then me defending myself but that's just me. Anyway, since Ed also agrees with the idea that you need to be shown to block energy with energy as the bareminimum this can be closed once AKM contacts Ant and summarizes the changes.

 

[Amexim]

Or should I go get him?

 

[WHYNAUT]

"No. It's a technique that only shows how to create aura. Many other verses don't need any technique to create aura, they just inherently do. The end result is same."

One of the scans used for this CRT in the OP shows Wing saying you use Ten to defend against aura. It is specifically Ten that has the property of blocking aura. So yeah, any characters that have been shown blocking energies and other auras with their own aura should of course be able to block the Nen and its special properties, but not just any aura that is used to engulf the user.

I agree with Ed if that wasn't clear.

 

[Amexim]

Almost every energy has the property of defending against itself. Again, basically yeah, it's just that lots of auras do this... Arguinh about this is pointless. We already decided that any aura/energy that can block the En can defend against this effect. If the aura can't, then it won't. I can understand that another way to look at an aura shaped glow around a person is them bleeding out energy, but... The point is for that energy to be able to block other energies— how they make the defense is irrelevant

 

[Edwellken]

"But... aren't you contradicting yourself? "The ability to produce aura" and "The ability to contain and toughen aura" are completely different things."

No. I said the ability to contain and toughen energy is what produces aura. That's like the basics of producing aura. You just having to maintain a constant layer of energy that envelops your body...that is what's called aura.

The definition of what aura is varies from fiction to fiction, but this doesn't actually counter my point anyways. Producing aura is not the same as strengthening aura and containing it. The latter is what Ten does.

As for what Ed just said, you have a general disagreement with the concept of Verse Equalization period then. The energies have to be able to interact st times, because some verses rely on being able to manipulate the energy of the opponent.

Nothing I said about verse equalization affects any of that...

 

[AKM sama]

@WHYNAUT Did you just...ignore the entire thread?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/510285042178850828/631233736956051456/p.txt.png

According to this scan, ten is just a technique to create a simple aura. And the simple aura is what blocks another aura. Nothing about it is special. Energy can interact and block another energy.

This is literally just going in circles with circular repetitive arguments over and over again.

 

[Amexim]

"If verse equalization says that any form of energy automatically becomes tangible with any other then my issue is with verse equalization itself giving abilities that the characters themselves haven't demonstrated."

Becomes tangible = interacts with. As if they're the same energy, and almost every energy in fiction from the same verse interacts with each other. You stated this as if their interaction was a problem.

When AKM says "strengthening an ENERGY (not making the aura itself stronger) and containing it" he's referring to how you maintain the density of the field and keep it from leaving you— the basic person who emanates a faint amount of energy has neither a dense shroud nor even a noticeable amount of it to block the stuff. It's like having a thin layer of armor vs your undershirt to defend you from a knife. Literally what Ten is, and a decent explanation for most auras in fiction. We already discussed how this works, so again, this is semantics, and AKM said he's not gonna reply here anymore. Imma go get Ant and this will close.

 

[Edwellken]

@AKM

That scan literally says the exact opposite of what you said?

 

[AKM sama]

"The definition of what aura is varies from fiction to fiction"

And according to the same scan you posted, ten is a technique that creates a concentrated flow of life energy that suffuses the body. Which literally means creating a SIMPLE aura.

" No one needs the technique to create aura when it's a thing people do passively in verse."

What they do passively is emanate energy, not create aura. SMH.

This is a very big case of misinterpretation on your part about what I said and what the scans say.

 

[Amexim]

Yeah, I agree with AKM that there is a difference and THAT is what blocks things. The aura, not the leakage of energy.

 

[Edwellken]

"If verse equalization says that any form of energy automatically becomes tangible with any other then my issue is with verse equalization itself giving abilities that the characters themselves haven't demonstrated."

Becomes tangible = interacts with. As if they're the same energy, and almost every energy in fiction from the same verse interacts with each other. You stated this as if their interaction was a problem.

...Aura doesn't need to become tangible for characters from other verses to interact with like they normally would.

When AKM says "strengthening an ENERGY (not making the aura itself stronger) and containing it" he's referring to how you maintain the density of the field and keep it from leaving you— the basic person who emanates a faint amount of energy has neither a dense shroud nor even a noticeable amount of it to block the stuff. It's like having a thin layer of armor vs your undershirt to defend you from a knife. Literally what Ten is, and a decent explanation for most auras in fiction. We already discussed how this works, so again, this is semantics, and AKM said he's not gonna reply here anymore. Imma go get Ant and this will close.

Again..... that isn't something that everyone with any sort of aura does. That is my entire point. Ant wouldn't close the thread when we haven't come to a conclusion yet.

 

[Edwellken]

@AKM

Literally look at the panel above to see that the "energy" he's referring to literally is aura. They're the same.

 

[Amexim]

In an energy blast clash heavy verse... Yes it does. Imagine Kid Goku firing a blast at Gon and Gon's Paper Jajanken flying through his Kamehameha because they're not the same energy.

In order for me to use your Chakra in Genjutsu or something, I probably have to use my Chakra/Chi junk to move it. If I can't tangibly move your energy around in you with mine... I can't use Genjutsu.

And we have. The basic ruling stays the same. Whoever gets the benefits from the Verse Equalization is up to that specific circumstance. We agree on everything but the unimportant semantics that apply to everything but HxH. If they can make an aura/energy defense that can block other energy, then they have it. What that aura is, either emanated energy that's wild and untamed, a glass-like barrier, or something exactly like Ten doesn't matter. Because Ten being exactly Ten isn't the defensive strategy. It's blocking the opponent's energy from infecting you using your own.

If they can't block the energy, then it's GG. Fs in the thread.

 

[Amexim]

Again, semantics. It's all good.

 

[Amexim]

Just to have it here at the bottom.

"From all the scans posted by Edwellken I got a major throwback to Gohan teaching Videl how to utilize her energy.

Anyway, from all the scans I have looked, everyone in the HxH verse possesses a particular life energy and ten is the technique that contains that life energy and toughens it, producing a wide cover of energy around the user, simply put, producing an aura (as blatantly shown in the last panel of the first scan). Obviously majority of normal humans don't know how to utilize this energy, only relevant characters do because shounen. It might have different names for different techniques to control the energy but at its core it's basically the same thing as many other verses who utilize life energy and envelop their bodies with energy.

Moving toward the actual point of this thread, against the malicious aura attack a normal person would perish because of course they don't know how to utilize their energy to produce aura, but a person who knows the ten technique, or in simple language, knows how to envelop one's body with enough energy to produce aura, would be completely unaffected by that attack because the user's aura/energy blocks the opponent's aura/energy. It's nothing but cancelling energy with energy.

Ultimately that attack only works on people who can't produce their own aura making them vulnerable to the energy created by the opponent. For anyone that can use their energy to form an their own aura is defended from that energy. I never saw anything about the energy requiring a certain property for it to be able to do it. Just plain and simple energy.

For that, I would honestly like to change how it's portrayed in profiles. One, it isn't resistance. It's just blocking the attack before you're even infected. It also doesn't block all attacks, just aura energy. So all resistances based on this should be removed. Only writing Aura (Ten users can produce aura to block malicious aura attacks with examples and scans) or something similar to it should be sufficient.

Second, which is a much smaller matter, is it's portrayal in vs threads where several people are under the false idea that the energy needs to have a very special property when nothing in canon suggests that. Only having a simple energy aura is all that is required to counter this specific attack."

 

[WHYNAUT]

@AKM

So what part of that goes against my argument? Ten is still what's used to block other's aura. So you're saying anyone with an aura can block Nen even if they've never shown to be able to block auras and or forms of energy with their aura?

 

[Amexim]

No, he's saying that anyone who has an aura/field/energy that can block energy can block Nen. He said that anything that can't do that isn't a real aura to him. It's just leaky light juice lmao

In his eyes, most actual auras function this way, negating weaker energy that comes in contact with it like any energy would. Dragon Ball up there does it. I think Mob Psycho does it?

 

[AKM sama]

@AKM
That scan literally says the exact opposite of what you said?

Again, you don't seem to comprehend. The scan says that everybody emanates LIFE ENERGY (the two people demonstrated on the right with a thin layer of energy).

AURA is nothing but LIFE ENERGY that suffuses/envelops the body by maintaining/containing a concentrated flow of it around you (the person on the left with a concentrated and wide layer of energy). Yes they are the SAME. AURA is concentrated ENERGY enveloping one's body. Aura can be called energy in the broader sense.

Ten is a technique which helps do the latter.

The latter is what interacts and blocks another's aura/energy. Energy interacting with itself.

Can't stress it better than this. And I'm literally tired of repeating myself again and again with circular arguments. Thread has been going in circles for long enough as it is.

For that, I would honestly like to change how it's portrayed in profiles. One, it isn't resistance. It's just blocking the attack before you're even infected. It also doesn't block all attacks, just aura energy. So all resistances based on this should be removed. Only writing Aura (Ten users can produce aura to block malicious aura attacks with examples and scans) or something similar to it should be sufficient.

This^ and my comment right above ^ this one is everything I had to say.

 

[Amexim]

I sent that plus the previous one before that to Ant before you posted it.

 

[Edwellken]

In an energy blast clash heavy verse... Yes it does. Imagine Kid Goku firing a blast at Gon and Gon's Paper Jajanken flying through his Kamehameha because they're not the same energy.

In order for me to use your Chakra in Genjutsu or something, I probably have to use my Chakra/Chi junk to move it. If I can't tangibly move your energy around in you with mine... I can't use Genjutsu.

Another strawman. Creating an energy blast that by default is tangible via being able to, you know, actually damage things has nothing to do with your energy sources being able to physically interact with each other.

People who use genjutsu have shown to be able to interact with intangible forms of energy. This is a non point.

@AKM

I'm just as tired of repeating myself even if I don't let it show as easily.

Not every verse concentrates their aura in the way Ten does. Period. Not every type of "aura" or whatever you want to call it, blocks out other types of energy. Ten does. It's literally as simple as having the feats.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Okay so your argument is that verse equal makes it so that intangible energies can interact with each other and that as such people with an aura can block other energies, right?

So anyone with an aura is fine if they get hit by an energy attack from someone of equal strength because the aura will stop it then?

That's not how verse equal works. Sure auras can interact with each other, but unless they're shown to be able to block other auras and energies we don't assume they can do so.

 

[Amexim]

They... The point of Verse Eq is to make the energies as if they belong to the same setting. In what Verse ever are the attacks that are actually meant to do anything to hurt the target not... Interactable with other attacks? Unless, like, it's a specific hax. This is nitpicking at best. Wasn't even a straw man. I... Y'all have to stop using that word. Trying to argue that the two blasts hitting and physically interacting with each other isn't evidence that they can interact with each other makes me question your standard for evidence in that. While there can be a difference between the two, the evidence for both interpretations is literally indistinguishable between the two positions, so you can look at a beam class and say "They can only interact because they're two tangible blasts" or say "They're naturally able to interact because they're both energy" or something and use the same evidence and be just as valid. It's not even an argument worth having because you can't debunk either interpretation with what evidence there exists.

And even with it being intangible, that doesn't matter... The energies themselves still interact with each other, tangibly and in tangibly.

And the last one, no one objects to. He's just saying lots of them do, and if they don't defend the user, they're not real auras— just energy leaking out from the person.

 

[Edwellken]

An energy blast hitting an energy blast doesn't mean that the intangible energy source used to produce it will block someone else's energy. This is a strawman.

If by "Aura" AKM means "Energy based forcefield" well, I mean that's a strange definition but okay I agree. Not all forms of what is generally portrayed or referred to as "aura" automatically do this, though. That's the distinction that is important to make.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Well unless one of the settings has aura passively block other energies that wouldn't apply. Verse equal makes energies equal, not mechanics.

 

[Amexim]

That's not a straw man. That's, even if you're right, me being WRONG about something. A straw man is a deliberate misrepresentation that exists to beat down a shadow of your argument that's far weaker than it actually is. You're literally, right now, attempting to correct me by clarifying something that wrong with my argument. Stop saying strawman.

And even then, this is the problem. What you get out of two blasts hitting each other is that they're both tangible object smashing against each other.

What I get is evidence that the energies can interact with each other— because them slamming against each other exactly that. And in most verses, Naruto for example, in general— intangible and tangible variants of the energies can interact with each other. This is true for almost every verse and it's a basic assumption that probably needs to be proven false than proven to be true because of its prevalence. Context, of course, matters. No one is saying it doesn't. If the attack or verse of the energy doesn't work how every other verse does, then it doesn't. We just need the information.

And thank you. That would be clarified in the rules by what he said. He said you need to be able to block the energy with your own. "the user's aura/energy blocks the opponent's aura/energy. It's nothing but cancelling energy with energy."

We all agree on that. Saying "energy based force field" specifically denies other verses who block attacks like this without it being an actual force field from it. In my verse, you can just let your energy burst out and dissolve an energy attack coming at you, blocking your energy with theirs. So long as it blocks their energy with yours, it's viable as a defense.

 

[WHYNAUT]

So if you agree with aura only blocking auras and forms of energy if it has been shown to do so, what are we even still arguing about?

 

[Amexim]

That's what I'M ******* saying. Jeez. I tell Ant not to worry about everything else because we're literally on a meaningless tangent when we all agree on the basic ruling but are arguing semantics about what an Aura is and how Verse Eq should work as a whole when that's not the thread's point and I get called shady for it, knowing damn well that we we're literally arguing about AKM's definition of an aura. Literal semantics.

At least i'm not the only one who recognizes that we're just arguing irrelevant stuff.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Ed and I have literally been saying that the entire thread, but you always argued against us.

Anyway if you agree with that I see no more point to arguing.

 

[Amexim]

ED. Do you disagree with any of the RELEVANT information and rulings given in AKM's statement. The most important one being the one you yourself agree on with the rest of us— which is what I was referring to when I said we "ALL".

"the user's aura/energy blocks the opponent's aura/energy. It's nothing but cancelling energy with energy."

Is this inaccurate to you? Because... This says you don't disagree;

"The trick... if you want to call something so simple a "trick", is that you need to have shown the ability to block aura/energy/whatever to block Ren. That's all I wanted to clarify from the very beginning."

Verse Equalization stuff isn't for here, and nothing in your OWN statement says it has to be specifically your definition of aura— just block the energy with energy— that's literally the only things we were arguing about. We agree on all the basic shit dude. Dick move tryna call me shady when I wasn't lying. Last thing I wanted was for Ant to not fix it because AKM won't comment again, or think we haven't reached the relevant conclusions.

 

[Amexim]

... I wasn't disagreeing with you on that. I've said it multiple times. You misread or misinterpreted everything.