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Hunter x Hunter Overhaul (Scaling)

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ShadowWhoWalks said:
Assuming Knuckle is 1.8 m in height, this panel shows a height of 26 m:
Fg5pFkr.png


Which makes around 0.28 of the crater's diameter.
Not sure if there is a panel we can directly measure which brings a better result.

Props for Charmander for the excellent job on the speed calcs, but I found issues with a couple of them which would unfortunately lower the result.

The distance Pitou jumped Kite from was pixel scaled at 2.9 km, however this conflicts with the statement that the longest of Pitou's En tentacles has a range of 2 km.
0259-009.png


This is reconciled by assuming a shorter reference tree height than what is used in the scaling.
2 km would be a high end, but Kite went out of his way to touch the tentacles so there is a good chance he went with the longer ones and the ones furthest from the source of the Nen.

The first Netero speed calc, which doubles for Pitou's perception speed, uses this diagram to scale the palace:
0279-005.png


However this is an unnecessary extra step that conflicts with a more reliable method, since we can use the following panel + statement that Pitou is around 500 m away from the palace:
0267-009.png
0265-012.png


The panel itself is used in the second step of the multi-step scaling of the palace, when scaling the entire palace can be done in a single step with just this panel.
If we scale with the panel, Netero's first attack speed and Pitou's perception gets lowered by a factor of 5 or 6 due to the smaller palace size.
1LuZrT3.png
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
Thank you very much for helping out DragonGamer.

It seems like all of the necessary preparations for this revision have been finished then GodlyCharmander.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Ran some tests, and this would, in turn, turn the calculation obsolete. I will just use the 2000m from Pitou's En, as the result just contradicts the stated size of the En (where the Dragon was)

EDIT: Updated it.
Click to expand...
I think you forgot to adjust the Mach 457 in the Conclusion.
Also why can't the lightning bolt killua fired not just have lasted longer? Do we have any reason to assume it just stopped on impact.
The rest seems pretty good tho only have this one concern left
 
Hk1488 said:
I think you forgot to adjust the Mach 457 in the Conclusion.
Also why can't the lightning bolt killua fired not just have lasted longer? Do we have any reason to assume it just stopped on impact.
The rest seems pretty good tho only have this one concern left
Click to expand...
If two things happen in the same manga panel (start and finish), the very concept of a manga panel indicates that these two things are simultaneous.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
If two things happen in the same manga panel (start and finish), the very concept of a manga panel indicates that these two things are simultaneous.
Click to expand...
Yeah but if his finger are already down all the was and lightning already hit what indicates it's duration wasn't longer due to being artificial
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Have done so. Sorry for taking so long, the internet was out all day yesterday
Click to expand...
I accepted it. Only small thing is that High 7-C+ doesn't start until 550 kilotons

Edit: Actually, hold that thought, I'm not exactly sure how you ended up with the formula for a spherical cap that you did. The calculator shows a different formula, so you might be better off just plugging in the dimensions into that.
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
I accepted it. Only small thing is that High 7-C+ doesn't start until 550 kilotons

Edit: Actually, hold that thought, I'm not exactly sure how you ended up with the formula for a spherical cap that you did. The calculator shows a different formula, so you might be better off just plugging in the dimensions into that.
Click to expand...
There are two formulas for Spherical Caps.

One uses (1/3), and has the height elevated by 2. This one uses the radius of the ORIGINAL SPHERE the cap was from. Obviously we don't have that for a crater.

The one I used (1/6), elevates the radius of the crater by two, and uses the radius of the crater itself, not depending on the original sphere.

Just search for "spherical cap volume formula" and look at the image that appears, it explains this.
 
Hk1488 said:
Yeah but if his finger are already down all the was and lightning already hit what indicates it's duration wasn't longer due to being artificial
Click to expand...
In one panel, Killua has his finger up, in the very next one, this arm does a 180° movement, and the lightning comes out at around the 120° mark, and in the same panel, Killua finishes the remaining 60° movement while the lightning hits the ground.

This all takes place in a single panel, so it should share the same timeframe.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
There are two formulas for Spherical Caps.

One uses (1/3), and has the height elevated by 2. This one uses the radius of the ORIGINAL SPHERE the cap was from. Obviously we don't have that for a crater.

The one I used (1/6), elevates the radius of the crater by two, and uses the radius of the crater itself, not depending on the original sphere.

Just search for "spherical cap volume formula" and look at the image that appears, it explains this.
Click to expand...
Ah, my bad. This should be fine then.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Oh, no, it's fine! I did the same mistake for my original calc before correcting it. Sorry for taking your time btw, I really appreciate your help.
Click to expand...
No worries, I gotchu covered.

Let me know if anything else may need evaluating, unless all that's a concern atm is scaling, in which case I'll see myself out since I'm not that knowledgeable about Hunter x Hunter
 
GodlyCharmander said:
In one panel, Killua has his finger up, in the very next one, this arm does a 180° movement, and the lightning comes out at around the 120° mark, and in the same panel, Killua finishes the remaining 60° movement while the lightning hits the ground.
This all takes place in a single panel, so it should share the same timeframe.
Click to expand...
Well a manga panel itself can only show us a singular image. In this case the image shows us only the results. Panels don't indicate a time flow. For all we know
1. We don't know if the lightning hit the floor at the same time as killuas hand pointed on the ground
2. We don't know if the lightning came out of that spot at the time his hand was there. It could have only started once the movement was already over
 
I'll state my suggestion for AP scaling. Some of it might be controversial, so please give your input.

  • God Tier
The strongest 7-A+ character in the verse - Post Rose Meruem - upscales to his own casual 7-A feat. (550 Megatons)

NOTE: I've linked a different calc which basically replaces the end of the original one with a Vaporization end. I'll wait for the original calc'er to update their calc before linking it.


  • Top Tier
The strongest Low 7-B such as Adult Gon's Ko is scaled 10x his High 7-C+ self, 7-B with Jajanken. (5.5 Megatons, 6.3 Megatons with Jajanken)

Gon is the only one who scales to this.



The strongest High 7-Cs such as Pre-Rose Meruem are upscaled to High 7-C+ from Youpi's Rage Blast. (550 Kilotons)

Who scales: Pre Rose Meruem, Adult Gon, Netero's Zero Hand, Puppet Neferpitou.



The High 7-C characters such as Neferpitou, and Youpi are upscaled from Youpi's Rage Blast (462 Kilotons)

Who scales: Youpi, Neferpitou.



The weakest High 7-C characters such as Netero's Buddha are downscaled from Youpi's Rage Blast (100 Kilotons)

Who scales: Netero's Buddha.... That's it


  • Mid Tiers
The strongest Low 7-C+ characters are scaled above 10x Uvogin's full power with fully charged enhancer techniques. (2.75 Kilotons)

Who scales: Enraged Gon's Jajanken, Uvogin's Big Bang Impact (Full power)



The Low 7-C characters are scaled 10x above half uvogin's full power via Ko (1.4 Kilotons)

Who scales: Biscuit's Ko, Killua's Ko, Kurapika's Ko.



The strongest 8-A characters are scaled to Uvogin's full power. (278,73 Tons)

Who Scales: CA Gon (Enraged), Godspeed Killua, Full Power Biscuit, Zazan's transformation, possibly Kite, possibly Ging, Base Netero, Pouf.



The 8-A characters such as Scarlet Eyes Kurapika are scaled to half of Uvogin's full power. (139,36 Tons)

Who scales: Morel, Knov, Knuckle, Shoot, Kurapika (Scarlet Eyes), Silva, Zeno, Lucifer, Zazan, CA Killua, CA Gon, Kite, Leol, Cheadle, Cheetu, Feitan, Franklin, Ging, Hisoka, Bonolenov, Illumi, Rusty Netero, Machi, Mizaistom, Nobunaga, Ant Palm, Parinston, Phinks, Razor, Shalnark Transformed, Shizuku with Bhinks, Tsubone, Gotoh.



The 8-B characters are 3.33x lower than the previous value, as explained here. (46,45 Tons)

Who scales: Base Kurapika, GI Gon (Post-Training), GI Killua (Post Training), Binolt, Genthru, Fodder Ants, Kalluto, Kortopi, Welfin, Meleoron, Palm, Rammot, Shalnark.



The weakest 8-B characters are downscaled from the previous value. (11 Tons)

Who scales: YS Gon, YS Killua, Abengane, Basho, Melody, Pakunoda, Shizuku, Tsezguerra.


  • Low Tier
The 9-A characters are scaled to Wing's casual wall crushing feat. (0.005 Tons)

Who scales: HA Gon, HA Killua, Wing, Zushi



The weakest 9-B characters are scaled to a random hunter cutting a tree horizontally (174,9 kilojoules)

Who scales: BoS Killua, Gon, Kurapika and Leorio.
 
Last edited:
Hk1488 said:
Well a manga panel itself can only show us a singular image. In this case the image shows us only the results. Panels don't indicate a time flow. For all we know
1. We don't know if the lightning hit the floor at the same time as killuas hand pointed on the ground
Click to expand...
Things represented in the same panel share the same timeframe unless we have a reason to believe otherwise. If one or the other moved in a separate timeframe, it wouldn't share the same panel at all.
Hk1488 said:
2. We don't know if the lightning came out of that spot at the time his hand was there. It could have only started once the movement was already over
Click to expand...
Not quite. We see a 180° bow-shaped electricity path crossed from Killua's finger, it seems to launch lightning about 2/3 of its way, aka, 120°
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Things represented in the same panel share the same timeframe unless we have a reason to believe otherwise. If one or the other moved in a separate timeframe, it wouldn't share the same panel at all.

Not quite. We see a 180° bow-shaped electricity path crossed from Killua's finger, it seems to launch lightning about 2/3 of its way, aka, 120°
Click to expand...
1.Well but nothing indicates his movement of the fingers being at that point would be the trigger of the lightning. Maybe it was already shot prior or maybe it was only shot once the movement was finished
2. Yeah but the only thing we know is the result of the attack. We don't know how long the attacks duration was either so assuming it lasted for such a short timeframe when killuas lightning could just last longer doesn't make much sense to me
 
GodlyCharmander said:
I'll state my suggestion for AP scaling. Some of it might be controversial, so please give your input.

  • God Tier
The strongest character in the verse - Post Rose Meruem - scales to his own 7-A feat. (546 Megatons)

NOTE: I've linked a different calc which basically replaces the end of the original one with a Vaporization end. I'll wait for the original calc'er to update their calc before linking it.


  • Top Tier
The strongest 7-B such as Adult Gon's Jajanken is scaled 15x his High 7-C+ self. (8.25 Megatons)

Gon is the only one who scales to this.



The strongest High 7-Cs such as Pre-Rose Meruem are upscaled to High 7-C+ from Youpi's Rage Blast. (550 Kilotons)

Who scales: Pre Rose Meruem, Adult Gon, Netero's Zero Hand, Puppet Neferpitou.



The High 7-C characters such as Neferpitou, and Youpi are upscaled from Youpi's Rage Blast (462 Kilotons)

Who scales: Youpi, Neferpitou.



The weakest High 7-C characters such as Netero's Buddha are downscaled from Youpi's Rage Blast (100 Kilotons)

Who scales: Netero's Buddha.... That's it


  • Mid Tiers
The strongest Low 7-C+ characters are scaled 15x Uvogin's full power with fully charged enhancer techniques. (4.18 Kilotons)

Who scales: Enraged Gon's Jajanken, Uvogin's Big Bang Impact (Full power)



The Low 7-C characters are scaled 10x above half uvogin's full power via Ko (1.4 Kilotons)

Who scales: Biscuit's Ko, Killua's Ko, Kurapika's Ko.



The strongest 8-A characters are scaled to Uvogin's full power. (278,73 Tons)

Who Scales: CA Gon (Enraged), Godspeed Killua, Full Power Biscuit, Zazan's transformation, possibly Kite, possibly Ging, Base Netero, Pouf.



The 8-A characters such as Scarlet Eyes Kurapika are scaled to half of Uvogin's full power. (139,36 Tons)

Who scales: Morel, Knov, Knuckle, Shoot, Kurapika (Scarlet Eyes), Silva, Zeno, Lucifer, Zazan, CA Killua, CA Gon, Kite, Leol, Cheadle, Cheetu, Feitan, Franklin, Ging, Hisoka, Bonolenov, Illumi, Rusty Netero, Machi, Mizaistom, Nobunaga, Ant Palm, Parinston, Phinks, Razor, Shalnark Transformed, Shizuku with Bhinks, Tsubone, Gotoh.



The 8-B characters are 3.33x lower than the previous value, as explained here. (46,45 Tons)

Who scales: Base Kurapika, GI Gon (Post-Training), GI Killua (Post Training), Binolt, Genthru, Fodder Ants, Kalluto, Kortopi, Welfin, Meleoron, Palm, Rammot, Shalnark.



The weakest 8-B characters are downscaled from the previous value. (11 Tons)

Who scales: YS Gon, YS Killua, Abengane, Basho, Melody, Pakunoda, Shizuku, Tsezguerra.


  • Low Tier
The weakest 9-B characters are scaled to a random hunter cutting a tree horizontally (174,9 kilojoules)

Who scales: BoS Killua, Gon, Kurapika and Leorio.




As you see, I've only had trouble scaling Heaven Arena Characters. They have some 9-A casual feats, which we should scale to them, but they're not in a blog. What do you think of this suggestion?
Click to expand...
Disagree because Kurapika too low

Jk, this looks fine to me. As for the 9-A feats for Heaven’s Arena characters, couldn’t you just put them in a blog?
 
Hk1488 said:
1.Well but nothing indicates his movement of the fingers being at that point would be the trigger of the lightning. Maybe it was already shot prior or maybe it was only shot once the movement was finished
2. Yeah but the only thing we know is the result of the attack. We don't know how long the attacks duration was either so assuming it lasted for such a short timeframe when killuas lightning could just last longer doesn't make much sense to me
Click to expand...
Yes, again, we do know it was shot from his finger, we see that explicitly in the Youpi vs Killua fight. The idea of him making an electric bow, and it coming out of a random direction instead of him just launching the electricity where he aimed seems nothing short of weird to me.

The timeframe problem I already addressed, both start and end on the same panel, so they should share the same timeframe.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Yes, again, we do know it was shot from his finger, we see that explicitly in the Youpi vs Killua fight. The idea of him making an electric bow, and it coming out of a random direction instead of him just launching the electricity where he aimed seems nothing short of weird to me.

The timeframe problem I already addressed, both start and end on the same panel, so they should share the same timeframe.
Click to expand...
They start and end at the same panel? Doesn't proof anything tho? Doesn't refute the possibility of the lightning lasting longer
 
So do we have a sufficient amount of accepted calculations to apply the revisions now?
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
No worries, I gotchu covered.

Let me know if anything else may need evaluating, unless all that's a concern atm is scaling, in which case I'll see myself out since I'm not that knowledgeable about Hunter x Hunter
Click to expand...
Nah, just a few minor feats.

Heaven Arena Calcs, and Kurapika's Bullet-catching Chain.
Cauann2K said:
Shouldn't Feitan's Rising Sun scale as well?
Click to expand...
Yes, it should. But it just reflects the damage back, nah? It depends on the attacker, not Fei.
 
Antvasima said:
So do we have a sufficient amount of accepted calculations to apply the revisions now?
Click to expand...
Only two left, but we're pretty much settled on the scaling.
Lifting Strength has little need for calculations as most of its values are stated in the Manga itself, or are already accepted. We can finish it today, probably.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
I'll state my suggestion for AP scaling. Some of it might be controversial, so please give your input.

  • God Tier
The strongest 7-A+ character in the verse - Post Rose Meruem - upscales to his own casual 7-A feat. (550 Megatons)

NOTE: I've linked a different calc which basically replaces the end of the original one with a Vaporization end. I'll wait for the original calc'er to update their calc before linking it.


  • Top Tier
The strongest 7-B such as Adult Gon's Jajanken is scaled 15x his High 7-C+ self. (8.25 Megatons)

Gon is the only one who scales to this.



The strongest High 7-Cs such as Pre-Rose Meruem are upscaled to High 7-C+ from Youpi's Rage Blast. (550 Kilotons)

Who scales: Pre Rose Meruem, Adult Gon, Netero's Zero Hand, Puppet Neferpitou.



The High 7-C characters such as Neferpitou, and Youpi are upscaled from Youpi's Rage Blast (462 Kilotons)

Who scales: Youpi, Neferpitou.



The weakest High 7-C characters such as Netero's Buddha are downscaled from Youpi's Rage Blast (100 Kilotons)

Who scales: Netero's Buddha.... That's it


  • Mid Tiers
The strongest Low 7-C+ characters are scaled 15x Uvogin's full power with fully charged enhancer techniques. (4.18 Kilotons)

Who scales: Enraged Gon's Jajanken, Uvogin's Big Bang Impact (Full power)



The Low 7-C characters are scaled 10x above half uvogin's full power via Ko (1.4 Kilotons)

Who scales: Biscuit's Ko, Killua's Ko, Kurapika's Ko.



The strongest 8-A characters are scaled to Uvogin's full power. (278,73 Tons)

Who Scales: CA Gon (Enraged), Godspeed Killua, Full Power Biscuit, Zazan's transformation, possibly Kite, possibly Ging, Base Netero, Pouf.



The 8-A characters such as Scarlet Eyes Kurapika are scaled to half of Uvogin's full power. (139,36 Tons)

Who scales: Morel, Knov, Knuckle, Shoot, Kurapika (Scarlet Eyes), Silva, Zeno, Lucifer, Zazan, CA Killua, CA Gon, Kite, Leol, Cheadle, Cheetu, Feitan, Franklin, Ging, Hisoka, Bonolenov, Illumi, Rusty Netero, Machi, Mizaistom, Nobunaga, Ant Palm, Parinston, Phinks, Razor, Shalnark Transformed, Shizuku with Bhinks, Tsubone, Gotoh.



The 8-B characters are 3.33x lower than the previous value, as explained here. (46,45 Tons)

Who scales: Base Kurapika, GI Gon (Post-Training), GI Killua (Post Training), Binolt, Genthru, Fodder Ants, Kalluto, Kortopi, Welfin, Meleoron, Palm, Rammot, Shalnark.



The weakest 8-B characters are downscaled from the previous value. (11 Tons)

Who scales: YS Gon, YS Killua, Abengane, Basho, Melody, Pakunoda, Shizuku, Tsezguerra.


  • Low Tier
The weakest 9-B characters are scaled to a random hunter cutting a tree horizontally (174,9 kilojoules)

Who scales: BoS Killua, Gon, Kurapika and Leorio.




As you see, I've only had trouble scaling Heaven Arena Characters. They have some 9-A casual feats, which we should scale to them, but they're not in a blog. What do you think of this suggestion?
Click to expand...
This all looks really good to me, but I wanna ask one thing. Where's the 15x coming from if you don't mind my asking? I know where the 10x for Ko is from, but I'm confused about the 15x.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
This all looks really good to me, but I wanna ask one thing. Where's the 15x coming from if you don't mind my asking? I know where the 10x for Ko is from, but I'm confused about the 15x.
Click to expand...
Japanese multiplier statements are wild.
Gon's Jajanken seems to be anywhere from 10 to 20x stronger than his normal ones. We know he can overpower Knuckle's Ko with his Jajanken, and given Knuckle was stronger, it has to be >10x
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Only two left, but we're pretty much settled on the scaling.
Lifting Strength has little need for calculations as most of its values are stated in the Manga itself, or are already accepted. We can finish it today, probably.
Click to expand...
Okay. That seems good then.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Japanese multiplier statements are wild.
Gon's Jajanken seems to be anywhere from 10 to 20x stronger than his normal ones. We know he can overpower Knuckle's Ko with his Jajanken, and given Knuckle was stronger, it has to be >10x
Click to expand...
Okay, that seems fair then.
But why does Uvo's BBI scale to the value if the statement is for Gon's Jajanken? Is it because the technique is essentially a suped up full power Ko punch, much like BBI?
 
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