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Yeah, I'm voting for Mia.
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"How nICE of you to take part in my challenge!" Cell VS Mia
- Thread starter XitSign
- Start date
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If we follow what DDM is saying, Mia is only 22x away from 4-B. This without accounting for buffs, and not mentioning how some of the skills are stuff like sharp ice crystals or fire. I really don't think there won't be any kind of injury even if it takes sometime.
Which reminds me, she can also send him to sleep.
Which reminds me, she can also send him to sleep.
XitSign
He/Him- 3,159
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- #43
Oh my god I forgot about Standard Battle Assumptions. Distance doesn't change a whole lot (might change how Cell decides to approach the fight in the first place, if he wants to stay at range or use something like Instant-Transmission to get back in close, but for Mia she's like 90% range), but there's something really funny about the 4km rule considering the senario I tried to make up.
...Did Cell just fly away for an arbitrary amount of time before turning around and saying "Okay, NOW I'm ready" once he was at the right range? Because that's a weirdly funny mental image of Mia watching this bug man refuse to fight her until he's the perfect distance away.
My pointless comments about how this senario would go down aside, another vote counted for the Ply Girl.
...Did Cell just fly away for an arbitrary amount of time before turning around and saying "Okay, NOW I'm ready" once he was at the right range? Because that's a weirdly funny mental image of Mia watching this bug man refuse to fight her until he's the perfect distance away.
My pointless comments about how this senario would go down aside, another vote counted for the Ply Girl.
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Cell can't use IT as Perfect Cell, only Super Perfect Cell. But it does change things, as she can cast that mist whatever spell whose name I don't remember right now because my back is killing me that makes it much harder to hit her.
XitSign
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- #45
"After being teleported to King Kai's planet by Goku"
...Oh, well, that's my mistake.
But the mist ability, you mean Delude and the abilities like it? You might actually be right, Delusions were always super useless in Golden Sun because so many abilities didn't have accuracy checks, but Cell's ability to sense Ki might help him aim and target Mia despite getting statused in this case. At the very least, it'd probably be a bit distracting having one of your senses messed with and needing to switch to another, but compared to Mia's other status options, Delusions seems like an annoyance rather than being geuinely dangerous for Cell.
But, the range differance and Cell not having access to IT does mix things up a bit. Either he decides to keep his range for a while or tries to rush her to fight up close or eventually go for an absorb, since it doesn't seem in character for him to try to fly away to try out-ranging.
...Oh, well, that's my mistake.
But the mist ability, you mean Delude and the abilities like it? You might actually be right, Delusions were always super useless in Golden Sun because so many abilities didn't have accuracy checks, but Cell's ability to sense Ki might help him aim and target Mia despite getting statused in this case. At the very least, it'd probably be a bit distracting having one of your senses messed with and needing to switch to another, but compared to Mia's other status options, Delusions seems like an annoyance rather than being geuinely dangerous for Cell.
But, the range differance and Cell not having access to IT does mix things up a bit. Either he decides to keep his range for a while or tries to rush her to fight up close or eventually go for an absorb, since it doesn't seem in character for him to try to fly away to try out-ranging.
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Cell doesn't intentionally take hits like some regenerators, so it's not as obvious as them, but it still will be quite easy to notice. Goku didn't know because he fights with blunt force, so most of the attacks will damage internally rather than visibly. If you shoot ice spikes at someone and they regenerate from them piercing, it will be much more noticeable.DragonEmperor23 said:
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I mean yeah, but the ice spikes have to hit. Cell could destroy them with a ki blast or dodge. He doesn't tank opponent's attacks in his Perfect key.
XitSign
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- #48
Speed is equalized and they're both pretty experienced fighters, it's unlikely Cell's going to go long without some sort of reasonable damage. Not to meantion Mia has all sorts of sources of attacks to actually hit him with, and a number of incapacitation abilities, power nulls, ect.
Even if Mia doesn't go for an overwhelming attack or some sort of death/soul manip, it shouldn't take too long to land a hit or get Cell in a position where he can't dodge and see the Regenerationn in action. I doubt Cell's Regenerationn is going to be a secret for long here.
Even if Mia doesn't go for an overwhelming attack or some sort of death/soul manip, it shouldn't take too long to land a hit or get Cell in a position where he can't dodge and see the Regenerationn in action. I doubt Cell's Regenerationn is going to be a secret for long here.
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I'm not sure what the AP diff is, but unless the ice spikes are strong enough to go completely through Cell, she wouldn't know how good his regen is. What's the argument for what she does when she knows he can regen again?
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The fact that she has different death manip spells. One works instantly, one is through a curse, like 3 or 4 are attacks that have a chance to instant kill.
Plus the fact that she has things like sealing magic and a spell that could put him to sleep, so an incap wincon as well.
The only reason I am not assuming baseline for Cell is that there's likely some sort of scaling chain, and that it would turn this into an AP stomp.
Plus the fact that she has things like sealing magic and a spell that could put him to sleep, so an incap wincon as well.
The only reason I am not assuming baseline for Cell is that there's likely some sort of scaling chain, and that it would turn this into an AP stomp.
XitSign
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- #51
AP's still a bit unclear, especially since Cell's AP as Perfect Cell seems to be up for debate. Either he chains upwards from...I THINK Goku as a full powered Super Sayian (which on his page is what jumpped from Star to Large Star) < Gohan Super Sayian < Perfect Cell OR he downscales from Super Perfect Cell. I can't seem to get an agreement from anyone which way it's supposed to be. (technically the chain goes longer for the upscale, but I shortened it to where the chain entered Large Star)
Mia's AP is Iris = about 1 Foe < Doom Dragon </= Dullhan </= Mia < Mia with the Golden Sun Fragment.
So, depends which way you think Cell should be chained and who you think has enough proof above baseline. Blahblah for example argued that Mia holds the advantage, Akreious argues that it should be in Cell's favor, and I just sit in the corner staring at DBZ scaling chains and cry myself to sleep.
But, if she does hold the advantage or is comparable enough, Ice Missle is definately going to pierce. It's one of her best combative abilities so no reason it shouldn't make full use of her AP. Do yeah, Ice Missle and her other offensive options would reveal the regen to her.
The main argument for Mia is that, as a defensive/support character with an alignment mostly with ice, she'd be most likely to start or heavily rely on abilities that are going to debuff Cell, Power Null him, buff herself, shield herself, incap him (freezing him with abilities like Glacier, Sleep manipulation, Stunning, Immobilizations, you get the idea she has a lot of status effects), and/or using one of the soul and death manip abilities for instant-kills. Short Story: weaken and bring Cell to a literial halt so she can set up on him for powered-up attacks or use her instant kill options to get rid of him as quick as possible.
I'm not sure Incap is a good argument for a win-con though Lancelot, while a number of Mia's options would most likely slow Cell down or outright stop him (Sleep manips, stunning effects, freezing, the Ground Djinn, speed stat manips, Halt(?) power null might even take away Cell's ability to fly which would be...amusing), none of those should keep him incaped for long enough for that to be counted as a victory. A lot of those give Mia a lot of breathing room to work with, sure, but I don't think any of those are lasting even an hour to try arguing KO, let alone incap.
Mia's AP is Iris = about 1 Foe < Doom Dragon </= Dullhan </= Mia < Mia with the Golden Sun Fragment.
So, depends which way you think Cell should be chained and who you think has enough proof above baseline. Blahblah for example argued that Mia holds the advantage, Akreious argues that it should be in Cell's favor, and I just sit in the corner staring at DBZ scaling chains and cry myself to sleep.
But, if she does hold the advantage or is comparable enough, Ice Missle is definately going to pierce. It's one of her best combative abilities so no reason it shouldn't make full use of her AP. Do yeah, Ice Missle and her other offensive options would reveal the regen to her.
The main argument for Mia is that, as a defensive/support character with an alignment mostly with ice, she'd be most likely to start or heavily rely on abilities that are going to debuff Cell, Power Null him, buff herself, shield herself, incap him (freezing him with abilities like Glacier, Sleep manipulation, Stunning, Immobilizations, you get the idea she has a lot of status effects), and/or using one of the soul and death manip abilities for instant-kills. Short Story: weaken and bring Cell to a literial halt so she can set up on him for powered-up attacks or use her instant kill options to get rid of him as quick as possible.
I'm not sure Incap is a good argument for a win-con though Lancelot, while a number of Mia's options would most likely slow Cell down or outright stop him (Sleep manips, stunning effects, freezing, the Ground Djinn, speed stat manips, Halt(?) power null might even take away Cell's ability to fly which would be...amusing), none of those should keep him incaped for long enough for that to be counted as a victory. A lot of those give Mia a lot of breathing room to work with, sure, but I don't think any of those are lasting even an hour to try arguing KO, let alone incap.
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Mia fra then
XitSign
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- #54
Bump
Also, a small update on some changes since we last picked this up. Perfect Cell is now Large Star Level+, while Mia only has a powerscaling chain and an unknown powerup so she's vaugely above Large Star Level. So AP advantage is now in Cell's favor for sure, unless someone makes any breakthroughs with Golden Sun (which I doubt, the series seems pretty tapped for feats at this point)
Also, a small update on some changes since we last picked this up. Perfect Cell is now Large Star Level+, while Mia only has a powerscaling chain and an unknown powerup so she's vaugely above Large Star Level. So AP advantage is now in Cell's favor for sure, unless someone makes any breakthroughs with Golden Sun (which I doubt, the series seems pretty tapped for feats at this point)
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Were there some CRTs I forgot about?
XitSign
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- #56
There was a thread that asked where Perfect Cell's Large Star Tier comes from, they discussed some changes and the conversation shifted to where DB went from Large Star to Solar System. Ended with a few characters getting shifted around.
Here's the thread, I think this is the only place this was discussed, I can't find anything else:
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2756261
Here's the thread, I think this is the only place this was discussed, I can't find anything else:
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2756261
XitSign
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- #58
Bumpping again, since this has been one of my most active threads ever.
Also, another update occured since the last time anyone touched this: Mia and the GS gang are now Massively FTL+
This changes nothing, because speed is equalized. BUT it is kinda funny that this tread started with Mia being horribly speed blitzed and has gone on long enough that she's the one who would speed blitz Cell now.
Also, another update occured since the last time anyone touched this: Mia and the GS gang are now Massively FTL+
This changes nothing, because speed is equalized. BUT it is kinda funny that this tread started with Mia being horribly speed blitzed and has gone on long enough that she's the one who would speed blitz Cell now.
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Yup, that is interesting. There was also someone questioning that High 4-C should be 4-C, only to get further clarified.
XitSign
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- #60
Which, thank god for your calc Medeus, it was getting a little tiresome to have to debate the GS AP Baseline in nearly every thread.
But, with that in mind. it does solitify the differance between Mia and Cell's AP, with Mia being 'Higher' than 1 Foe via powerscales and powerups of unknown degrees above Iris (who is 'at least 1 Foe' herself), and Cell being (I think, please don't burn me at the stake) scaled to 11 Foe now via recent CRT.
Which means, unless you take some really heavy benifits of the doubt with how big the scaling chain and power up is in GS, Mia probably starts in one-shot range for Perfect Cell.
...Buuuuuuut almost every argument we have already explains that Mia's entire fighting style tends to conpensate with stat manips, among other useful defensive abilities like forcefields, status, and power nullifications, as first/early-game moves. So I don't think any of this necroes or debunks just yet, since Mia still has in-character ways to take control of the situation despite the disadvantage.
So I say we're still game, for the time being. Let this really out of place GS vs DB fight continue. (Mostly for my sake, I'm still sad about Isaac VS Frieza being shot down as quickly and brutally as it was)
But, with that in mind. it does solitify the differance between Mia and Cell's AP, with Mia being 'Higher' than 1 Foe via powerscales and powerups of unknown degrees above Iris (who is 'at least 1 Foe' herself), and Cell being (I think, please don't burn me at the stake) scaled to 11 Foe now via recent CRT.
Which means, unless you take some really heavy benifits of the doubt with how big the scaling chain and power up is in GS, Mia probably starts in one-shot range for Perfect Cell.
...Buuuuuuut almost every argument we have already explains that Mia's entire fighting style tends to conpensate with stat manips, among other useful defensive abilities like forcefields, status, and power nullifications, as first/early-game moves. So I don't think any of this necroes or debunks just yet, since Mia still has in-character ways to take control of the situation despite the disadvantage.
So I say we're still game, for the time being. Let this really out of place GS vs DB fight continue. (Mostly for my sake, I'm still sad about Isaac VS Frieza being shot down as quickly and brutally as it was)
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Honestly, if we decide the buffs stack with each other along with her debuffs, Cell is still gonna end up hitting softer than her durability.
The defined rating for Cell is actually a good thing, because I was worried this may be in the stomp area AP wise. Mia is kinda close to the top of the tier after all, and Cell was rather undefined.
The defined rating for Cell is actually a good thing, because I was worried this may be in the stomp area AP wise. Mia is kinda close to the top of the tier after all, and Cell was rather undefined.
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