• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Huge Honkai Revisions

Status
Not open for further replies.

GarrixianXD

University Enthusiast
Any/All
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Translation Helper
3,868
9,085
It has been said that Paths are the congregation of imaginary energy.

Paths are congregations of Imaginary energy, born as manifestations of universal philosophical concepts. Those who believe in and practice the concepts behind a certain path become Pathstriders, and the path that they happen to follow will change under their own philosophies and opinions. In some special cases, entities that manage to completely intertwine themselves with a path and explore its philosophical concepts to their entirety will become an Aeon.

The profiles of Aeons, such as this, have been shown to contain scans and references from Honkai Impact 3rd which involves transcendence upon the Imaginary Tree.

During the close beta test of Honkai: Star Rail, Luocha had ascension materials that were directly harnessed from the Imaginary Tree. It wasn't only stated to be the ascension material for Luocha, but all Imaginary type characters.



The Imaginary Tree branches ascension material shares the same properties of the Imaginary Tree from Hi3rd.



As you can see in the two Imgur galleries, the description of the Imaginary Tree stated on Luocha's ascension material matches Durandal statement on the Imaginary Tree of Honkai Impact 3rd. Both are said to govern practically everything about the "universe" and existed primordially at the beginning of time.

Not to mention Welt directly travelled from the Hi3rd universe. There's really no doubt that Hi3rd and HSR are directly connected on the same Imaginary Tree.

The Imaginary Tree and Sea of Quanta has been accepted here as High 1-C on an 11-D scale.

Since the CRT is old and may be questioned if the scaling is still valid:
Yes, the scaling is still valid. As you can see Kiana had High 1-C durability with the Imaginary Barrier on this version of her article. The reason why the High-Complex Multiversal durability was butchered is because of this, which linked a CRT to delete and recreate the verse because of its terrible state of pages that violated our statistic indexing guidelines, but absolutely nothing was accepted to debunk the 11-dimensional nature of the Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta.

Honkai as a Universal Energy System
Honkai energy is used by all the combatants in the verse and helps them in many ways. The section below explains how Honkai energy qualifies for a Universal Energy System. And given its feats and mechanisms, the following abilities are granted by default to any user: Energy Absorption, Statistics Amplification & Damage Boost.

Universal Use:

Honkai energy is used by everything in the setting, from reactors, vehicles, mechs, and civilizations, to individuals who can freely manipulate it, be it Valkyries through their stigmata, MANTIS and Honkai beasts through Honkai in their genes, and Herrschers by their cores and bodies filled with Honkai energy. Furthermore, individuals with Honkai resistance can also manipulate it.

It powers all abilities, from battlesuits, weapons to powers, some examples are: Honkai energy being used to manipulate matter, Kiana/Sirin using Honkai energy to cause spatial curvatures, Ana Schariac using Honkai energy for her ice manipulation, Herrscher of Sentience's illusions releasing Honkai energy, Honkai beasts using Honkai energy to create acid storms.


Empowerment:​

Honkai energy and its users have demonstrated several feats in terms of amplification, whether boosting the user's physique, speed or abilities, both passively and actively.

Examples of passive strengthening are the enhancements received by Valkyries through their stigmas, making their body one of the best vessels for Honkai energy, MANTIS through the genes of Honkai beasts boosting their strength and speed, with the strongest MANTIS like Flame-Chasers reaching Herrscher levels, with the latter also having Honkai energy inside their bodies.

It's also possible to absorb Honkai energy, something noted to be possible for every Valkyrie, to strengthen both the physique and abilities in the process. Fueling more Honkai

energy causes enhanced resistances to be bypassed, and also increased the potency of the matter manipulation from atomic to sub-atomic. Additionally, Swara, the Edge of Taixuan, is able to not only strengthen the body but also launch attacks and work by fueling more Honkai energy.

Honkai energy also improves battlesuits and melee weapons such as swords, which also empower the wielder in the process, or firearms such as pistols.

Impairment:​

The reverse of the above is also true, with several showings of users losing their strength, speed, failing to use their powers and even death.

To begin, there is an anti-Honkai serum, which is capable of deactivating Honkai energy, this serum was able to weaken a Honkai beast, resulting in its inability to control Honkai energy, which caused its death. Valkyries have also lost their ability to wield Honkai, and were reduced to human levels of strength.[6] Zombies went into a state of panic and rampage and even lost consciousness. Losing or having less Honkai energy causes the user to get slower, affecting both their travel, reaction, and attack speed, while lack of Honkai energy causes powers to fail.




Another feat to support Star of Eden's rating, it also destroyed the Theather of Domination, a higher-dimensional realm.

Herrschers can manipulate Higher-dimensions.

Scaling:

We have a very direct higher-D feat performed by Welt in his fight against Ryusuke, a higher-dimensional being who could easily destroy the lower-dimensional realms and be unaffected by anything from them, with the lower-dimension being powerless against him, Welt had to go above any 3-D to defeat him, and in the end we see that Welt destroyed the realm and killed him.

Our tiering faq and system says: “Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status.”

And despite the new standards, this is still valid.

Ryusuke qualifies since his power is that way because of his higher dimensionality compared to 3-dimensions, Star of Eden will have its AP scaled to it for having not only destroyed and killed Ryusuke, but gravity itself is a higher-dimensional force in the verse, as Welt claimed space was born from it, which is supported by 11-D supergravity existing at low energies.

More support for HE being smurf:

Honkai energy supports the Sea of Quanta/Ether Archor, both being 11-D, and has a connection with it. Honkai energy in the Sea of Quanta was also able to corrode and destroy the Ether Anchor

People draw energy from Sea. Honkai's source is higher-dimensional. You need to have Honkai resistance to withstand the Sea, and resistance is what allows the manipulation of Honkai. Honkai energy can also BFR people to there.

Honkai energy has High 1-C potency and range as it can destroy and support 11-D stuff, as well as sending things to there, people can draw and resist Honkai energy from the same place.

At very least we can upgrade the AP to Low-2C via Star of Eden's feat and Hax to 11-D. Although, this is kinda of a weird spot, given Honkai energy is an UES, physicals would end up scaling to it

Anyways, conclusion: all character who scales on par with Pathstriders and Emanators, especially Aeons should have their tiering upgraded to High 1-C via scaling off Imaginary energy, which is directly derived from the Imaginary tree. Talking about the Star of Eden, it will scale to 2 characters, and with that, some high-tiers will scale as well, but first, what is the Star of Eden? this weapon is a divine key, forged using the core of the 9th Herrscher as its power source, since we know that the Star of Eden's power source comes from the core of the 9th Herrscher, we can scale its AP to the respective Herrscher, Kevin defeated this Herrscher by himself, HoT Mei with Durandal's help also defeated Herrscher of Rimestar, who not only had the 9th Core, but also another one (They were fused), we can even see Mei holding the cores after the fight. I should also note that divine keys cannot harness the same power as Herrschers, while Herrschers are so able to do the same as their respective divine keys, there shouldn't be any doubts about the scaling. Welt still has the Star of Eden in Star Rail.

Credits to @Shiroiyo for helping me out with this CRT 💖

Agree: Catzlaflame, DarkDragonMedeus, Planck69 {3}

Disagree:
 
Last edited:
Too soon man, but since we're going for it. I might throw some feats here to help supporting it.

This is already accepted, but I would like to add to the Honkai energy page the explanations as to why it qualifies as a UES. The following text will be added to this page.

Honkai as a Universal Energy System
Honkai energy is used by all the combatants in the verse and helps them in many ways. The section below explains how Honkai energy qualifies for a Universal Energy System. And given its feats and mechanisms, the following abilities are granted by default to any user: Energy Absorption, Statistics Amplification & Damage Boost.

Universal Use​

Honkai energy is used by everything in the setting, from reactors, vehicles, mechs, and civilizations, to individuals who can freely manipulate it, be it Valkyries through their stigmata, MANTIS and Honkai beasts through Honkai in their genes, and Herrschers by their cores and bodies filled with Honkai energy. Furthermore, individuals with Honkai resistance can also manipulate it.​

It powers all abilities, from battlesuits, weapons to powers, some examples are: Honkai energy being used to manipulate matter, Kiana/Sirin using Honkai energy to cause spatial curvatures, Ana Schariac using Honkai energy for her ice manipulation, Herrscher of Sentience's illusions releasing Honkai energy, Honkai beasts using Honkai energy to create acid storms.​

Empowerment​

Honkai energy and its users have demonstrated several feats in terms of amplification, whether boosting the user's physique, speed or abilities, both passively and actively.​

Examples of passive strengthening are the enhancements received by Valkyries through their stigmas, making their body one of the best vessels for Honkai energy, MANTIS through the genes of Honkai beasts boosting their strength and speed, with the strongest MANTIS like Flame-Chasers reaching Herrscher levels, with the latter also having Honkai energy inside their bodies.​

It's also possible to absorb Honkai energy, something noted to be possible for every Valkyrie, to strengthen both the physique and abilities in the process. Fueling more Honkai​

energy causes enhanced resistances to be bypassed, and also increased the potency of the matter manipulation from atomic to sub-atomic. Additionally, Swara, the Edge of Taixuan, is able to not only strengthen the body but also launch attacks and work by fueling more Honkai energy.​

Honkai energy also improves battlesuits and melee weapons such as swords, which also empower the wielder in the process, or firearms such as pistols.

Impairment​

The reverse of the above is also true, with several showings of users losing their strength, speed, failing to use their powers and even death.​

To begin, there is an anti-Honkai serum, which is capable of deactivating Honkai energy, this serum was able to weaken a Honkai beast, resulting in its inability to control Honkai energy, which caused its death. Valkyries have also lost their ability to wield Honkai, and were reduced to human levels of strength.[6] Zombies went into a state of panic and rampage and even lost consciousness. Losing or having less Honkai energy causes the user to get slower, affecting both their travel, reaction, and attack speed, while lack of Honkai energy causes powers to fail.​



Scaling

We have a very direct higher-D feat performed by Welt in his fight against Ryusuke, a higher-dimensional being who could easily destroy the lower-dimensional realms and be unaffected by anything from them, with the lower-dimension being powerless against him, Welt had to go above any 3-D to defeat him, and in the end we see that Welt destroyed the realm and killed him.

Our tiering faq and system says: “Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status.”

And despite the new standards, this is still valid.

Ryusuke qualifies since his power is that way because of his higher dimensionality compared to 3-dimensions, Star of Eden will have its AP scaled to it for having not only destroyed and killed Ryusuke, but gravity itself is a higher-dimensional force in the verse, as Welt claimed space was born from it, which is supported by 11-D supergravity existing at low energies

Talking about the Star of Eden, it will scale to 2 characters, and with that some high-tiers will scale as well, but first what is the Star of Eden? this weapon is a divine key, forged using the core of the 9th Herrscher as its power source, since we know that the Star of Eden's power source comes from the core of the 9th Herrscher, we can scale its AP to the respective Herrscher, Kevin defeated this Herrscher by himself, HoT Mei with Durandal's help also defeated Herrscher of Rimestar, who not only had the 9th Core, but also another one (They were fused), we can even see Mei holding the cores after the fight. I should also note that divine keys cannot harness the same power as Herrschers, while Herrschers are so able to do the same as their respective divine keys, there shouldn't be any doubts about the scaling. Welt still has the Star of Eden in Star Rail.
 
Last edited:
Although in unsure about the Pathstriders and Emanators scaling to this
I mean, judging by the description of the Path on the HSR wiki article, the Paths itself already scales to the Imaginary Tree. And Pathstriders and Emanators draw power from their paths, so 11-D isn't limited to just Aeons.
 
Honkai as UES argument will make everyone who use Honkai gonna be H1C, even fodder Valk
Not necessarily, mastery levels vary, and fodder valkyries or people with poor adaptability have succumbed to the Sea of Quanta, so this would scale it up to High-Level Honkai Users and Aeons
 
the main point of this CRT is revolved around HSR and the Path’s correlation to the Imaginary Tree. Honkai Energy and Hi3rd UES just serves as consistency tbh.
 
I agree with the Aeons being updated to High 1-C, but as far for the Pathstriders and Emanators... I am neutral for now
Yeah because like we don't have any real showings of feats for normal characters who aren't aeons that would make them tier 1 or real statements, like yeah sure they get blessed by a aeon but like we don't scale them to the aeons in any way

At most I could see their abilities being tier 1, but not their physical Might being that strong
 
Yeah because like we don't have any real showings of feats for normal characters who aren't aeons that would make them tier 1 or real statements, like yeah sure they get blessed by a aeon but like we don't scale them to the aeons in any way

At most I could see their abilities being tier 1, but not their physical Might being that strong
High 1-C with hax is fine to me if we go by this
 
Yeah because like we don't have any real showings of feats for normal characters who aren't aeons that would make them tier 1 or real statements, like yeah sure they get blessed by a aeon but like we don't scale them to the aeons in any way

At most I could see their abilities being tier 1, but not their physical Might being that strong
High 1-C via hax then?
 
More support for HE being smurf.

Honkai energy supports the Sea of Quanta/Ether Archor, both being 11-D, and has a connection with it. Honkai energy in the Sea of Quanta was also able to corrode and destroy the Ether Anchor

People draw energy from Sea. Honkai's source is higher-dimensional. You need to have Honkai resistance to withstand the Sea, and resistance is what allows the manipulation of Honkai. Honkai energy can also BFR people to there.

Honkai energy has High 1-C potency and range as it can destroy and support 11-D stuff, as well as sending things to there, people can draw and resist Honkai energy from the same place.

At very least we can upgrade the AP to Low-2C via Star of Eden's feat and Hax to 11-D. Although, this is kinda of a weird spot, given Honkai energy is an UES, physicals would end up scaling to it
 
Anyways, Aeons being upgraded is ok with me. tho the rest will get hax working on that level only (which was already a thing). If we end up making GGZ profiles, Mei and Kiana also transcend the Imaginary Law and apparently get even higher than Aeons there
 
Okay, there have been quite a few changes to the thread. Shiroiyo also wants to make revisions for various Honkai Impact 3rd characters, but by the time you guys approved the thread, I hadn't edited all her comments onto my OP yet. @DarkDragonMedeus @Catzlaflame Sorry for the ping guys 🙏

Here are her full propositions:
More support for HE being smurf.

Honkai energy supports the Sea of Quanta/Ether Archor, both being 11-D, and has a connection with it. Honkai energy in the Sea of Quanta was also able to corrode and destroy the Ether Anchor

People draw energy from Sea. Honkai's source is higher-dimensional. You need to have Honkai resistance to withstand the Sea, and resistance is what allows the manipulation of Honkai. Honkai energy can also BFR people to there.

Honkai energy has High 1-C potency and range as it can destroy and support 11-D stuff, as well as sending things to there, people can draw and resist Honkai energy from the same place.

At very least we can upgrade the AP to Low-2C via Star of Eden's feat and Hax to 11-D. Although, this is kinda of a weird spot, given Honkai energy is an UES, physicals would end up scaling to it.
Talking about the Star of Eden, it will scale to 2 characters, and with that some high-tiers will scale as well, but first what is the Star of Eden? this weapon is a divine key, forged using the core of the 9th Herrscher as its power source, since we know that the Star of Eden's power source comes from the core of the 9th Herrscher, we can scale its AP to the respective Herrscher, Kevin defeated this Herrscher by himself, HoT Mei with Durandal's help also defeated Herrscher of Rimestar, who not only had the 9th Core, but also another one (They were fused), we can even see Mei holding the cores after the fight. I should also note that divine keys cannot harness the same power as Herrschers, while Herrschers are so able to do the same as their respective divine keys, there shouldn't be any doubts about the scaling. Welt still has the Star of Eden in Star Rail.

If both of you agree with this then I'll change your stances from only agreeing with HSR scaling to agreeing with everything else; just want to be certain of everyone's stances here.
 
holy mother of wank, now everyone gonna be High 1-C
Not for this CRT at least xD Anyways, Shiroiyo is going to make a scaling chain CRT once this is finished and you guys can discuss further 11-D stuff from there.
 
Aren't you guys practically scale hax potency with stats via UES, so everyone with Honkai Energy, and Honkai Beast, which formed from Honkai Energy gonna be High 1-C nonetheless
 
Aren't you guys practically scale hax potency with stats via UES, so everyone with Honkai Energy, and Honkai Beast, which formed from Honkai Energy gonna be High 1-C nonetheless
Just because Honkai Energy is 11-D at peak, it doesn't mean that everything that uses it is High 1-C. Like, Ki in Dragon Ball is Low 1-C at the brunt extent but there are tier 9-8 Ki users. But I'm not someone who knows the full scaling chain; I'm actually unsure if normal Honkai beasts will scale to it.
 
This… Was not what I was expecting upon opening this thread. Everything looks good from what I know of the series (though I personally believe the Imaginary Tree should be much higher in tier but that’s not up to me)
 
I'm not sure about Pathstrider or Emanator scaling.

The issue lies is that they draw power from their Aeons but the Aeons
there are multiple instances where one can draw power from a higher source but only draw limited amounts to their level. at the very least it would possibly make the abilities on that level but scaling it to their potency and tier is a bit reaching.
though it could be possible to gain it as a rating if the hax is destructive such as Acheron and such but i doubt it should scale to their durability.

saying emanators or pathstrider is high 1-C is equivalent to saying they can manipulate their Aeon as a whole who are high 1-C because they draw energy from that which is obviously false
 
I'm not sure about Pathstrider or Emanator scaling.

The issue lies is that they draw power from their Aeons but the Aeons
there are multiple instances where one can draw power from a higher source but only draw limited amounts to their level. at the very least it would possibly make the abilities on that level but scaling it to their potency and tier is a bit reaching.
though it could be possible to gain it as a rating if the hax is destructive such as Acheron and such but i doubt it should scale to their durability.

saying emanators or pathstrider is high 1-C is equivalent to saying they can manipulate their Aeon as a whole who are high 1-C because they draw energy from that which is obviously false
Exactly my stance on this
 
Perhaps it’ll scale to hax, yeah. It’ll still change the overall tiering nonetheless eventually, since it’s still based on an UES.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top