Honkai Impact 3rd - Infinite Speed Arguments (v2)

[Mbpoops]

No, it could move at finite speed and is still be able to get out of black hole if the one who throw it have enough strength, that why not every escaping from Black Hole feat have infinite speed, it could be speed, or LS, or gravity hax resistance

Im a bit lost on how someone with infinite LS is throwing something at finite speeds

They arent using any hax they just apply enough force to throw the iten out of the singularity which would still require infinite travel speed to escape

 

[Mbpoops]

The reason why some verses dont get infinite speed from escsping black hole singularities is becsuse, as plsnck said earlier, they dont respect the irl mechanics of a black hole, however hoyoverse does this to a science

 

[Vietthai96]

Psuedo-science, you can move out of black hole gravitational pull with enough LS, so you throwing an object out of black hole is not necessarily speed only, it could be LS, you are in a gray area

 

[Mbpoops]

Psuedo-science, you can move out of black hole gravitational pull with enough LS, so you throwing an object out of black hole is not necessarily speed only, it could be LS, you are in a gray area

The item being thrown does not have the same LS as the person throwing it? If i throw a ball does the ball have the same LS as me?

 

[Vietthai96]

If you throw an object, you applies a force to it. If the force have enough strength to resist the gravitational pull, then the object will have enough strength to resist.

 

[Mbpoops]

I mean alr thats fair ig, but its not psuedo science since they deadass just copied general relativity

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Psuedo-science, you can move out of black hole gravitational pull with enough LS, so you throwing an object out of black hole is not necessarily speed only, it could be LS, you are in a gray area

The object must be travelling at infinite speeds as the standards say.
It's only LS because it's throwing an object, infinite LS = infinite throwing speed, it seems.

Why wouldn't this UES to infinite movement speed? I didn't push on this when it came to Space because they explicitly didn't want to talk UES and I respect that choice.

No, it could move at finite speed and is still be able to get out of black hole if the one who throw it have enough strength

Yes, this is true for a black hole when not in the singularity. FTL speeds are still finite speeds.
When in the Singularity, what this CRT says, the standards do say an object has to be moving at infinite speeds.

 

[Mbpoops]

If you throw an object, you applies a force to it. If the force have enough strength to resist the gravitational pull, then the object will have enough strength to resist.

Quick question tho.

Since senti has immeasurable LS would the item being thrown also have immeasurable LS?

 

[Vietthai96]

I mean alr thats fair ig, but its not psuedo science since they deadass just copied general relativity

Anything regarding Black Hole right now is pseudo-science cause we are currently know jack shit about it nature. Also travelling out of black hole require you to goes FTL not infinite speed, but according to general relativity if you goes FTL then you will travel backward in time. So depend on verses escaping a black hole via speed is either FTL or Immeasurable speed.

 

[Vietthai96]

Quick question tho.

Since senti has immeasurable LS would the item being thrown also have immeasurable LS?

It will move at the force that you need Immeasurable LS to catch it

Also Senti have Immeasurable scam not LS

 

[Mbpoops]

Anything regarding Black Hole right now is pseudo-science cause we are currently know jack shit about it nature. Also travelling out of black hole require you to goes FTL not infinite speed, but according to general relativity if you goes FTL then you will travel backward in time. So depend on verses escaping a black hole via speed is either FTL or Immeasurable speed.

General relativity is not psuedo science. Also it is within wiki standards that it is infinite speed

It will move at the force that you need Immeasurable LS to catch it

So immeasurable.

Also Senti have Immeasurable scam not LS

Huh

 

[Mbpoops]

Also wait so the item being thrown with immeasurable force (LS) is moving at immeasurable speed then why doesnt this also apply to infinite LS and speed? You are applying an infinite force to an object

 

[Mbpoops]

Also by your logic we should remove tier 1 as a whole and t0 since nothing in those tiers have actually been proven and are just theories about dimensions/philosophy

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Also by your logic we should remove tier 1 as a whole and t0 since nothing in those tiers have actually been proven and are just theories about dimensions/philosophy

Let's at least put it properly.

We've discussed in this thread that Tesla states the Spiritual Adam technologically is a singularity like a black hole. We've also went through the in-verse black holes of Hi3 when discussing with Planck, which do qualify as black holes on this wiki.
So she's comparing the technological functions of the Spiritual Adam with the Black Holes that qualify in-verse.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Attack speed is fine

Also, I'm trying to get clarification on this because I don't know if the above was a follow up to this:

Remove my possibly infinite speed due to point 3, i actually forgot throwing thing is lifting strength as well

Point 4, hmmm?, we scales due to UES or?

Are you saying for Point 3, 4 or both that you agree with Infinite Attack Speed via throwing (Infinite LS)?

 

[Mbpoops]

Anything regarding Black Hole right now is pseudo-science cause we are currently know jack shit about it nature. Also travelling out of black hole require you to goes FTL not infinite speed, but according to general relativity if you goes FTL then you will travel backward in time. So depend on verses escaping a black hole via speed is either FTL or Immeasurable speed.

btw it is still wiki standards that escaping a black hole’s SINGULARITY requires infinite speed. Your argument here is about escaping the event horizon which yea is Ftl but per wiki standards escaping the singularity requires infinite speed. Doesnt matter if we dont know everything IRL, theres a lot of stuff on the wiki we dont know a lot about like higher dimensions yet we still use thise for tiering, and again, its in the standards snd would require a staff crt to change so until then it works.

 

[Mbpoops]

 

[Vietthai96]

I say Black Hole is pseudo-science, not General Relativity, cause we actually know jackshit about it other than some basic surface knowledges

Are you saying for Point 3, 4 or both that you agree with Infinite Attack Speed via throwing (Infinite LS)?

Me personally just disgree with point 3 cause it could be either LS or speed, we are in a gray area

Didn't point 4 is about Black and White Hole feat?

 

[Mbpoops]

I say Black Hole is pseudo-science, not General Relativity

the black hole follows general relativity tho

 

[Mbpoops]

Black hole information paradox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Vietthai96]

the black hole follows general relativity tho

Yeah, but we knows almost nothing about the true nature of Black Hole, so all we have now is prediction and guessworks. So fiction mostly just based on those guessworks, so pseudo-science, in a sense

 

[Mbpoops]

Yeah, but we knows almost nothing about the true nature of Black Hole, so all we have now is prediction and guessworks. So fiction mostly just based on those guessworks, so pseudo-science, in a sense

I mean yea but like i said earlier, theres a lot of things we dont know about. Most of the wiki runs on theories and philosophies we havent solved yet so why is this only an issue here?

Its still in wiki standards a infinite speed requirement and honkai follows black holes and general relativity pretty accurately so im not seeing an issue with using black hole science here

 

[Vietthai96]

Anyway, should just use point 4 at this point

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Me personally just disgree with point 3 cause it could be either LS or speed, we are in a gray area

No we're not. There's no grey area at all. An object must be travelling infinite speeds to escape a black hole. That much is confirmed with the wiki's standards. That's 100%.

As Senti throws the object at infinite speeds, it is LS through the Wiki's standards. That's 100% - Throwing is listed under LS.

However as she is applying infinite force to something, through UES, she should have infinite speed. - That's completely logical and works within a UES verse.

---

Also, even if it is a gray area (it isn't) is that any reason to disagree with Point 3? That's either a possibly rating, or you agree with what Spaceman said and it's just LS, hell, put that under a 'possibly' rating too.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

I say Black Hole is pseudo-science, not General Relativity, cause we actually know jackshit about it other than some basic surface knowledges

Yeah, but we knows almost nothing about the true nature of Black Hole, so all we have now is prediction and guessworks. So fiction mostly just based on those guessworks, so pseudo-science, in a sense

(Called pseudo-science despite black holes in Hi3 being approved as being accurate enough to be used for scaling)

Anything regarding Black Hole right now is pseudo-science cause we are currently know jack shit about it nature. Also travelling out of black hole require you to goes FTL not infinite speed, but according to general relativity if you goes FTL then you will travel backward in time. So depend on verses escaping a black hole via speed is either FTL or Immeasurable speed.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Hole_Feats_in_Fiction#About_Inescapability_and_destructiveness

Your contention here is completely invalid because the Wiki defines its own metrics for black holes. We're not going off of general relativity or any other real-world theories. The wiki explicitly says:

So faster than light characters would still be capable of escaping a black hole past the event horizon even though even for them it gets more and more difficult, and at the center of the black hole, in the singularity, it would require infinite speed to do so.

If you disagree because it's 'pseudo-science' and 'we do not know enough about black holes irl' then please, please try and get the standards changed instead of arguing about them here. You evidently disagree with the standards, but this isn't the place for arguing about them (thus not using them).

For what is currently going on, we should be arguing with the VSBW standards.

Under the VSBW Standards:
- The object, because it escapes the singularity, is travelling at Infinite Speeds.
- The object is thrown by Senti, meaning it's a lifting strength feat.

Please address this the following contention below, I have brought this up and been ignored, so I'm making a point to specifically highlight it here.

- Why wouldn't this UES to infinite movement speed? Senti throws something with infinite force with the Honkai Energy powering her body. Why can't she propel herself with infinite force, hence, infinite speed? (UES)

- Why disagree with the feat? Senti throws the object at infinite speeds. It should at least be infinite attack speed with throwing.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Bump

 

[Vietthai96]

Bump

Not Bump

Anyway i'm tired, idrc, i'm neutral on point 3, point 4 is fine to me

 

[Mbpoops]

Well tbf both 3 and 4 still have at least 2 votes and as mr bambu said, since that crt labeling all those verses as contraversial isnt finished it shouldnt be applied to the verses until that crt is done so both are technically accepted.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

technically accepted yet its not applied onto profiles yet

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Not Bump

Anyway i'm tired, idrc, i'm neutral on point 3, point 4 is fine to me

Can you confirm or deny whether or not OP can apply the changes because hes still sus about what I said

Considering this crt is over a month old and heavily doubt anymore staffs will evaluate it. Ill try and conclude it myself.

This CRT only needs 2 staff vote agreements. The staff thread to officially recognize Hoyoverse and the rest of the verses as popular/controversial have not been concluded yet and has been ongoing for over a year. Its also confirmed in the staff thread that verses do not have to follow the list until the staff thread is finished and applied. Since evaluating staff members Planck and Reiner have voted agree for Feat 3 and 4, and the feat themselves have zero disagreements, those 2 feats are accepted and can be applied. Meaning this CRT is probably concluded since no one cares about pursuing feat 2.

 

[Vietthai96]

Can you confirm or deny whether or not OP can apply the changes because hes still sus about what I said

Very deserved

Anyway i think you can applies the OP, with the accepted points of course

Though what is vote tally?

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Very deserved

Anyway i think you can applies the OP, with the accepted points of course

Though what is vote tally?

It's updated in the OP

Agree:
Reiner04 (1, 2, 3, 4 - Assuming all 4, since any specific one was not specified)
Planck (2, 3, 4)
Vietthai (4)


Disagree: Vietthai (1 + 2)
Spaceman (2)

Spaceman:
Point 3 - Infinite Attack Speed via throwing (Infinite LS)
Point 4 - Infinite Attack Speed for Zephyro, Varies up to Infinite Attack Speed for Welt with SoE.

 

[Vietthai96]

It's updated in the OP

Oke i guess