Honkai Impact 3rd - Infinite Speed Arguments (v2)

[CastoriceTheFifth]

In Welt we trust

 

[Mbpoops]

How out of curiosity? They're not physical spaces? In spinning black holes singularities can be areas too. It doesn't get over the fact that it is called a singularity, with respect for what singularities actually are. In hi3 characters are even capable of flat out tanking black holes and standing in their centres.

Could you explain why @Planck69?

That same quote says the fact it's not a point is why it doesn't carry dimensional information. And if they're mental spaces then that's even less in their favour of being black holes.

 

[Planck69]

I'm just making a point that they respect singularities.

How out of curiosity? They're not physical spaces? In spinning black holes singularities can be areas too. It doesn't get over the fact that it is called a singularity, with respect for what singularities actually are. In hi3 characters are even capable of flat out tanking black holes and standing in their centres.

Because actual singularities aren't "mental spaces", what? And again, being called a singularity "similar to a black hole" isn't new either, several fictional objects that visibly don't act like real black holes are called that. Spinning black holes can have 1-dimensional ring-like singularities yes. But there's neither hair nor hide of that kind of information here.

Here all we seemingly have is a statement naming them as such. They clearly don't have infinite density and no volume if they're a space of some sort and if that's not the case, then is there any actual information as to their properties at all?

Like, do they have the infinite gravitational pull of one or anything that would necessitate that level of speed to escape them or is that one scan above the extent of what we know about them?

 

[Mbpoops]

Because actual singularities aren't "mental spaces", what? And again, being called a singularity "similar to a black hole" isn't new either, several fictional objects that visibly don't act like real black holes are called that. Spinning black holes can have 1-dimensional ring-like singularities yes. But there's neither hair nor hide of that kind of information here.

Why exactly does it being a mental space contradict it being a singularity? It being a mental space doesnt contradict that in the slightest. Black holes in honkai work the same as black holes irl and the characters who are making this claim have seen how a black hole works

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Where on the wiki has it even been stated mental spaces cant work like singularities?

Here all we seemingly have is a statement naming them as such. They clearly don't have infinite density and no volume if they're a space of some sort and if that's not the case, then is there any actual information as to their properties at all?

You say they clearly dont but like whats the proof of that..? Ill just be repeating myself if i explain that hoyo black holes are the same irl

Like, do they have the infinite gravitational pull of one or anything that would necessitate that level of speed to escape them or is that one scan above the extent of what we know about them?

Yes thats how black holes work

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[Planck69]

Why exactly does it being a mental space contradict it being a singularity? It being a mental space doesnt contradict that in the slightest. Black holes in honkai work the same as black holes irl and the characters who are making this claim have seen how a black hole works

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Where on the wiki has it even been stated mental spaces cant work like singularities?

You say they clearly dont but like whats the proof of that..? Ill just be repeating myself if i explain that hoyo black holes are the same irl



Yes thats how black holes work

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You have to actually prove why something that isn't a normal black hole has those properties, yes. A mental space isn't a singularity because that's not what singularities normally are. I don't have to prove a negative, I just asked for the bare minimum positive proof.

That said, if those black hole scans are from the same source as the original scan then I can see it on account of how explicit they are about its general properties.

 

[Mbpoops]

You have to actually prove why something that isn't a normal black hole has those properties, yes. A mental space isn't a singularity because that's not what singularities normally are. I don't have to prove a negative, I just asked for the bare minimum positive proof.

Thats fair my apologies

That said, if those black hole scans are from the same source as the original scan then I can see it on account of how explicit they are about its general properties.

They are both from honkai impact 3rd so yea it’d becthe same source

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Bump

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

That said, if those black hole scans are from the same source as the original scan then I can see it on account of how explicit they are about its general properties

Do you have a different stance for feat 3 or the same

 

[Planck69]

Do you have a different stance for feat 3 or the same

It seems fine now.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

It seems fine now.

I'm not gonna count your vote yet since I want to give you the full context, just in case.

Those scans are from the Hi3 VN, same game, they're talking about black holes in Hi3 generally, but not the Spiritual Adam explicitly. The characters know how black holes act - they act like real life black holes.
So here, in this scan, they're comparing the Spiritual Adam, calling it a 'Singularity similar to a black hole' and specifically noting its similarities are from a 'Technological standpoint' - So specifically talking about the features scoops noted up here.

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I just want to make sure you 100% understand because this:

That said, if those black hole scans are from the same source as the original scan then I can see it on account of how explicit they are about its general properties.

To me seems like you could be talking about a lot with 'the same source'. Still agree or anything else?

 

[Planck69]

Hm, in that case then it is still fine.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Your help is appreciated here
@DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Planck69

Can you ping @ActuallySpaceMan42 and @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless please

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

Your help is appreciated here
@ActuallySpaceMan42
@Oblivion_Of_The_Endless

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

1st scan is range and AP. You don't need to destroy something in a single blast, and sending an earthquake through an infinite place would still be a range and AP feat. Unless it's specified how they're destroying it, like moving across every sector, there's no reason to assume infinite speed.

Throwing something out of a singularity would be an Infinite LS feat at most. The only people who would scale to it would be people who have wrestled/out brute strengthed the character who performed the feat.

The last one, from what I can tell, isn't a speed feat at all.

 

[Mbpoops]

1st scan is range and AP. You don't need to destroy something in a single blast, and sending an earthquake through an infinite place would still be a range and AP feat. Unless it's specified how they're destroying it, like moving across every sector, there's no reason to assume infinite speed.

Throwing something out of a singularity would be an Infinite LS feat at most. The only people who would scale to it would be people who have wrestled/out brute strengthed the character who performed the feat.

Would the thrown item not be moving at infinite speed?

The last one, from what I can tell, isn't a speed feat at all.

The last one is definetly a speed feat for the blast since the explosion travels an infinite distance. Idk if those characters would scale to it stats wise but the blast is most definetly infinite attack speed

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Would the thrown item not be moving at infinite speed?

You need Infinite LS to throw something out of a singularity, but what speed it would be moving at after it leaves the singularity is unknown. This is all pseudo-science after all.

The last one is definetly a speed feat for the blast since the explosion travels an infinite distance. Idk if those characters would scale to it stats wise but the blast is most definetly infinite attack speed

That's range.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

1st scan is range and AP. You don't need to destroy something in a single blast, and sending an earthquake through an infinite place would still be a range and AP feat. Unless it's specified how they're destroying it, like moving across every sector, there's no reason to assume infinite speed.

I mentioned on purpose that the attack is noticed by Seele, then sweeps through the characters and everyone feels it. The dimension is then about to collapse, it's not instant like it would be if it was range and AP. The blast is travelling through the dimension.

Throwing something out of a singularity would be an Infinite LS feat at most. The only people who would scale to it would be people who have wrestled/out brute strengthed the character who performed the feat.

You need Infinite LS to throw something out of a singularity, but what speed it would be moving at after it leaves the singularity is unknown. This is all pseudo-science after all.

Can you send where this is on the standards? I can't see it. Also, Black Holes within Hi3 are pretty scientifically accurate, as via the scans sent above. Why are we assuming pseudo-science?

 

[Mbpoops]

You need Infinite LS to throw something out of a singularity, but what speed it would be moving at after it leaves the singularity is unknown. This is all pseudo-science after all.

? The wiki accepts things escaping a black hole’s singularity as infinite speed why would this be unknown if it has to be moving at at least infinite speed

That's range.

it can apply to speed aswell there multiple instances of the wiki accepting similar things as infinite speed such as toei dragon ball and irontomb. Its mostly due to ues but hi3 uses the same ues as hsr which irontomb is from so im not sure why this wouldnt be applicable

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

You need Infinite LS to throw something out of a singularity, but what speed it would be moving at after it leaves the singularity is unknown. This is all pseudo-science after all

But the object would have to be moving at infinite speed to escape the singularity to begin with according to the sites standards. Since it’s an object being thrown, its attack speed.
Honkai impact also does acknowledge the real physics behind Black holes at several points so saying “this is pseudo-science” isn’t appropriate in this case.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I mentioned on purpose that the attack is noticed by Seele, then sweeps through the characters and everyone feels it. The dimension is then about to collapse, it's not instant like it would be if it was range and AP. The blast is travelling through the dimension.

You're going to have to show more scans of it 'sweeping' and 'travelling'.

Can you send where this is on the standards? I can't see it. Also, Black Holes within Hi3 are pretty scientifically accurate, as via the scans sent above. Why are we assuming pseudo-science?

? The wiki accepts things escaping a black hole’s singularity as infinite speed why would this be unknown if it has to be moving at at least infinite speed

Throwing feats fall under LS.

Likewise, throwing an object a certain height upwards can be used as a lifting feat, as doing so would require greater strength than merely lifting the object.

If you really want to, I guess you could put Infinite Speed via Throwing, but as I said before, no one would scale to it except for characters who have physically overpowered the one who performed the throw (Wrestling, Pinning, etc).

it can apply to speed aswell there multiple instances of the wiki accepting similar things as infinite speed such as toei dragon ball and irontomb. Its mostly due to ues but hi3 uses the same ues as hsr which irontomb is from so im not sure why this wouldnt be applicable

If you can show something more explicit, like an explosion actually spreading an infinite distance, sure. Otherwise, it's just Range & AP.

Also, I don't need three people responding to me all at once.

 

[Mbpoops]

You're going to have to show more scans of it 'sweeping' and 'travelling'.

fair enough

Throwing feats fall under LS.

If you really want to, I guess you could put Infinite Speed via Throwing, but as I said before, no one would scale to it except for characters who have physically overpowered the one who performed the throw (Wrestling, Pinning, etc).

we arent nessesarily arguing that the throw is infinite speed but the item escaping the singularity is moving at an infinite speed and the person who caught it has to have infinite speed to catch it

If you can show something more explicit, like an explosion actually spreading an infinite distance, sure. Otherwise, it's just Range & AP.

sure



he it says the cosmos was ruptured and the script ended, the script can only really end when the universe is destroyed since elio can see infinite possibilities throughout the universe.

the universe or cosmos in HSR is infinite in size and we see the blast expand out before the white covers the screen so the blast should at least be traveling at infinite speed which would grant welt and zephyro infinite attack speed with those abilities.

Also, I don't need three people responding to me all at once.

my apologies

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

we arent nessesarily arguing that the throw is infinite speed but the item escaping the singularity is moving at an infinite speed and the person who caught it has to have infinite speed to catch it

That's why I was iffy about giving infinite speed.

It wasn't written like it 'flew' or 'soared' or anything implying very fast movement. It rose up and then landed in someone's arms, which might even imply they didn't even catch it; it just landed there.

Right now, I'm seeing Infinite LS and maybe Infinite Speed via Throwing and whoever scales to the LS of the character in question.

sure



he it says the cosmos was ruptured and the script ended, the script can only really end when the universe is destroyed since elio can see infinite possibilities throughout the universe.

the universe or cosmos in HSR is infinite in size and we see the blast expand out before the white covers the screen so the blast should at least be traveling at infinite speed which would grant welt and zephyro infinite attack speed with those abilities.

That white flash could also just be the universe, being destroyed. The fact that it said the cosmos ruptured seems to lean more to the fact that the universe shattered the instant they clashed, rather than some massive explosion spreading across the cosmos.

Unless there's evidence proving otherwise.

my apologies

All good.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

That white flash could also just be the universe, being destroyed. The fact that it said the cosmos ruptured seems to lean more to the fact that the universe shattered the instant they clashed, rather than some massive explosion spreading across the cosmos.

Unless there's evidence proving otherwise.

Its an explosion that traveled across the infinite universe. There is a clear epicenter with the clash being it.

This same feat was performed again by Zephyro with there being a clear epicenter

"Many believe Zephyro's targeting the Nihility. One Self-Annihilator once described a nightmare: At the end of all things, with nothing left to destroy, a Lord Ravager hurled himself into IX's divine corpus, followed by a single, violent beam of white that pierced the endless dark."

It does not magically spawn in an omnipresent way.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Its an explosion that traveled across the infinite universe. There is a clear epicenter with the clash being it.

I need proof of that, otherwise this is just a matter of interpretation, which makes mine no less valid than yours.

This same feat was performed again by Zephyro with there being a clear epicenter

"Many believe Zephyro's targeting the Nihility. One Self-Annihilator once described a nightmare: At the end of all things, with nothing left to destroy, a Lord Ravager hurled himself into IX's divine corpus, followed by a single, violent beam of white that pierced the endless dark."

It does not magically spawn in an omnipresent way.

This seems more promising. Can I see the scans or video for it?

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Right now, I'm seeing Infinite LS and maybe Infinite Speed via Throwing and whoever scales to the LS of the character in question.

UES Slop + We have immeasurable LS characters who throw objects. These objects are then reacted to. (The Herrscher of Domination is immeasurable LS) - Immeasurable LS is obviously above the Infinite speed via Infinite LS you see this as.

So either way you go, this scales back to being infinite speed anyways.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I need proof of that, otherwise this is just a matter of interpretation, which makes mine no less valid than yours.

This seems more promising. Can I see the scans or video for it?

Theres no video but it's the same thing. Zephyro's and IX's clash is the clear epicenter with there being a bright light that travels the Infinite Universe. Which as we have seen in Welt Vs Zephyro, the explosion is the bright light.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Theres no video but it's the same thing. Zephyro's and IX's clash is the clear epicenter with there being a bright light that travels the Infinite Universe. Which as we have seen in Welt Vs Zephyro, the explosion is the bright light.

Assuming the Endless Dark is the Cosmos or whatever, then I can see Infinite Attack Speed from this.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

You're going to have to show more scans of it 'sweeping' and 'travelling'.

Here's a similar explosion travelling through the same realm.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Assuming the Endless Dark is the Cosmos or whatever, then I can see Infinite Attack Speed from this.

Is this fine

Welt Yang’s Star of Eden would get a varies rating up to Infinite Attack speed since it’s accepted that he doesn’t scale back to the weapon he’s wielding while Zephyro gets Infinite Speed since it’s his own power + UES

 

[Mbpoops]

Is this fine

Welt Yang’s Star of Eden would get a varies rating up to Infinite Attack speed since it’s accepted that he doesn’t scale back to the weapon he’s wielding while Zephyro gets Infinite Speed since it’s his own power + UES

Wouldnt zephyro just have infinite attack speed? Its just the detonation of the blast not the actual ability

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Is this fine

Welt Yang’s Star of Eden would get a varies rating up to Infinite Attack speed since it’s accepted that he doesn’t scale back to the weapon he’s wielding while Zephyro gets Infinite Speed since it’s his own power + UES

The Varies up to Infinite Attack Speed is fine. I don't know how UES works in this scenario, so I can't comment.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

The Varies up to Infinite Attack Speed is fine. I don't know how UES works in this scenario, so I can't comment.

If you want the full details, Honkai energy UES is like this, it affects, travel, reaction and combat speed.
So Cas is suggesting that because Zephyro can muster energy for an infinite speed explosion, nothing stops him from putting that energy into his combat speed or reaction speed / other physicals. As even if it’d downscale from the white hole move it wouldn’t be infinitely lower cause Zephyro doesn’t have varies mechanic like the star of Eden.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

If you want the full details, Honkai energy UES is like this, it affects, travel, reaction and combat speed.
So Cas is suggesting that because Zephyro can muster energy for an infinite speed explosion, nothing stops him from putting that energy into his combat speed or reaction speed / other physicals. As even if it’d downscale from the white hole move it wouldn’t be infinitely lower cause Zephyro doesn’t have varies mechanic like the star of Eden.

If this is relevant, Reiner in a different thread agreed that Zephyro's physicals would scale back to the attack via UES (CRT hasnt concluded yet) but it would be a weird discrepancy between his stats and speed if his speed is just attack speed while having full AP stats

 

[Mbpoops]

You might as well just give him 2-A atp since hes using infinite energy i disagree with giving him infinite speed but attack speed is fine

 

[Mbpoops]

If this is relevant, Reiner in a different thread agreed that Zephyro's physicals would scale back to the attack via UES (CRT hasnt concluded yet) but it would be a weird discrepancy between his stats and speed if his speed is just attack speed while having full AP stats

Reiner also said welt downscales from this.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Reiner also said welt downscales from this.

I'm like pretty sure he meant in the sense that Welt's SOE downscales from the clash itself because OP was trying to completely slime and nuke Welt from ever scaling to it

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

From what I can tell, Zephyro's White Hole is treated as something special on his profile, sending him from 3-A to 2-A. Even with UES, you wouldn't scale a character's average attack to their strongest attack, even when backed by the same energy.

So Infinite Speed via White Hole seems fine, but I wouldn't overwrite his average speed with Infinite.

 

[Mbpoops]

From what I can tell, Zephyro's White Hole is treated as something special on his profile, sending him from 3-A to 2-A. Even with UES, you wouldn't scale a character's average attack to their strongest attack, even when backed by the same energy.

So Infinite Speed via White Hole seems fine, but I wouldn't overwrite his average speed with Infinite.

I fully agree with this.

 

[PlungingThroughTime]

Here's a similar explosion travelling through the same realm.

Bumping this as it's related to the 2nd point.

UES Slop + We have immeasurable LS characters who throw objects. These objects are then reacted to. (The Herrscher of Domination is immeasurable LS) - Immeasurable LS is obviously above the Infinite speed via Infinite LS you see this as.

So either way you go, this scales back to being infinite speed anyways.

Bumping this as it's related to the 3rd point.

If you want the full details, Honkai energy UES is like this, it affects, travel, reaction and combat speed.

Bumping this as it also relates to the 3rd point.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

From what I can tell, Zephyro's White Hole is treated as something special on his profile,

Because currently there is a discrepancy since another active thread has a thread mod that voted for Zephyros physicals to scale back to it via UES.

sending him from 3-A to 2-A

Zephyro is 3-B with 2-A. Not 3-A

Even with UES, you wouldn't scale a character's average attack to their strongest attack, even when backed by the same energy.

So Infinite Speed via White Hole seems fine, but I wouldn't overwrite his average speed with Infinite.

Is Infinite Speed in general fine if the other crt concludes with him scaling back to the attack in general while this crt for now concludes that its attack speed to match the current AP?