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Homeless Emperor, the terrible mystery

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King

King

He/Him
800
613
There has been issue going on with Homeless Emperor's tiering and the characters that scale to him. The issue being his Attack Potency. There have been, to my information, three different versions of his calc. Two versions give 6 C results and one which gives 7 A results. I'll list these calcs below:

1. This one is the most recent and gives a 6 C result.
2. This one is the 7 A one and is the reason for the debate.
3. This is the original calc on the basis of which Homeless Emperor is currently rated.

The purpose of this discussion is to choose the most suitable version and revise/ not revise the ratings.
 
Kulf_Boba said:
I think my version is more accurate because I'm using a single floor of the nearest building, plus Paint is more accurate at scaling pixel by pixel than the program I used to scale Therefir.
Click to expand...
Yeah, well let's see what happens. He isn't even online yet. Although I agree with your measure being better than the other ones as the building you chose is the closest one.
 
Damage3245 said:
At the moment Therefir's looks most reasonable to me.
Click to expand...
Well, if I had to compare the pixel scaling of the three calcs. I'd choose Kulf Boba's even if it is lower than the original 6 C calc. The problem with the original one is that it has a blurry image and confusing structures which may or may not resemble buildings.
For Therefir's version, I am a bit doubtful due to the perspective of the crater. This is because the shot isn't linear but at an angle which makes the nearer objects seems bigger. This is exactly the reason why I feel the recent version is better as it uses the building closest to the crater and thereby reducing the chance of an error due to the perspective.
 
Only partially related but, why is vaporization used? The smoke seems thick enough to be dust instead.
 
Kulf_Boba said:
The calculation of Atomic Samurai cutting Homeless Emperor's orb would count as Cacl Stacking? since he is giving an exact number to a move just because he did it another time, to get a number for another character.
Or is it justified by the fact that the power of the orbs is proportional to their size?
Click to expand...
He should scale but the 35 times weaker idea doesn't seem right to me. After all, if he is capable of facing such an attack head on there is no need to use such a method.
 
I didn't use that building there because it was a bit blurry, but as we can see the result only changes from almost 100 meters to 150 meters.

The reason your calculation still got such high results is because you assumed 1 single pixel for the end of the crater, which is obviously going to inflate the result to massive proportions and is not something I can agree with.
 
Therefir said:
I didn't use that building there because it was a bit blurry, but as we can see the result only changes from almost 100 meters to 150 meters.

The reason your calculation still got such high results is because you assumed 1 single pixel for the end of the crater, which is obviously going to inflate the result to massive proportions and is not something I can agree with.
Click to expand...
Check well the panel and you will see that the end of the crater does look like 1px, the problem is that the application you are using does not allow you to scale a few pixels. Also, do you assume that the beginning of the crater reaches the panel or have you calculated the distance from the beginning of the crater to the panel?
 
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Kulf_Boba said:
Check well the panel and you will see that the crater end if it looks like 1px, the problem is that the application you use does not allow you to scale a few pixels.
Click to expand...
It does, it allows me to scale even less than that.

But using just that one pixel which may not even be part of the crater will only just inflate the results.

You should use the last two pixels at the very least.
 
Therefir said:
It does, it allows me to scale even less than that.

But using just that one pixel which may not even be part of the crater will only just inflate the results.

You should use the last two pixels at the very least.
Click to expand...
Don't say that you use the minimum pixels that the application allows you to scale, if you don't scale what you see is the end of the crater.
jxlOCLa.png
 
What...? Those last four pixels that you painted red are not even part of the crater, their color is different from the crater's more darker colors.
 
As for my calculation, I will state that I calculated it the way I did in order to avoid using multiple panels for pixel scaling. By finding the width of the crater in the same panel where we get the length, if the measurements are accurate, the length and width can't be wanked or downplayed by cherrypicking sizes of the crater width from other panels.

Because as we all know, the orb was only 20-30 meters wide, despite all of the aftermath shots having (Iaian and Atomic's reaction panel has a six story building, Homeless's panel has multiple buildings to pixel scale from, and the panel with the length of the crater has a building on the side) the crater dwarf multi-story buildings. So inconsistency was the one thing I wanted to avoid.

However... Atomic cutting up Homeless's orb needs to be scaled one way or another, because the current scaling does not accurately reflect the gaps between the characters at all. Homeless's gendikamas are not massively superior to Sun-blade Atomic, Golden Sperm, Platinum Sperm, Garou and Flashy. Given that I think there are no issues with my calculation, I would support using my 4.468 gigaton end and the orb calculation Kulf did to scale those characters.
 
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And before consistency becomes the centerpiece of this discussion, let me say that it's not feasible to reach the consistency we would looking for, something that would reconcile the variation in sizes we see in the 5 different shots of Homeless Emperor's gendikama in action/its aftermath. We have two shots of the orb impacting the ground that are drawn from a close to the ground perspective, where we can clearly see the characters doing something in the scene. In these situations, the orb is 23 meters or 17 meters wide, assuming you scale its size from Fuhrer Ugly(assuming height of 5 m) and Tanktop Master(2.27m) respectively.

Two things to note about these first two panels:
  1. Murata can only draw the explosion so large while still having the figures being prominently visible in the action panel, so he's going to draw the orb within certain size ranges that allow that to be the case. If there's any consistency between these panels, it's because he's trying to keep the characters a certain size in relation to the orb, not that he's measuring the orb to be a certain size.
  2. These are impact panels, the explosion is still in progress, we don't have time to see it's full effects. I recommend prioritizing panels that show the full aftermath because we can't be sure if the explosion has expanded to reach it's full size, but inconsistencies aside, the aftermath isn't going to grow like an explosion might.
To counter those two panels with smaller impact sizes, we have (1) three (2) large (3) shots of the aftermath. In all three of these shots, the crater is dwarfing buildings. Looking through some calculations for the feat, you'll see just how many buildings there are.

Three things to note about these other panels:
  1. Murata is resorting to his typical strategy of tossing a few buildings into the aftermath to give an impression of grand scale, but he is not measuring any of this. This makes it no more or less reliable than the panels built around the characters as far as guessing any intended, measured size goes.
  2. These are the shots of the aftermath. The explosion was not finished exploding (or potentially expanding) when we see Fuhrer Ugly and the heroes dodge it, so it's highly plausible the explosion could have expanded after those panels but before we see the full aftermath. That does make them more reliable to scale from.
  3. Speaking of intentions, it's notable that the third aftermath panel comes in chapter 149. All four other panels are in chapter 141, but the panel I used where we get the length was drawn months after the feat originally occurred. The only reason this panel is being shown is to give a sense of scale- there are no characters who need to be shown reacting to it. If we're trying to gauge what panel gives a best indication of the true size of the crater, I'd go with the one that Murata made after looking back at the feat months after he wrote it.
One more thing. I think it's significant that TTM is unsure if Iaian and Atomic (who were just right next to him), are okay. If the crater was only as wide as house, a regular person would be able to clearly see if they were fine and might not even need to shout to be heard. If it were as wide as a block or wider, Iaian and Atomic would be harder to see and you would need to shout to be heard.
 
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Kulf_Boba said:
And why do they follow the crater lines and even pass through the white-painted sections near the other HE explosions?
Click to expand...
There are other lines like that all across the white-painted section, we can't be sure that's part of the crater, especially considering it's lighter color compared to it.

If other calc group members are fine with using one pixel for the end of the crater then I will be okay with it as well.
 
The crater is certainly really inconsistent, just looking at this shot comparing it to human characters.
 
Kulf_Boba said:
@Ourosboros I don't have much of a problem with your calculation I don't mind it being accepted as the results are about the same, although I am recalculating it again and may get a slightly higher result.
Click to expand...
Pretty similar methods. I understand why you calced your own so you could scale Atomic Samurai and the others, which is something that needs to be done.
 
Therefir said:
There are other lines like that all across the white-painted section, we can't be sure that's part of the crater, especially considering it's lighter color compared to it.

If other calc group members are fine with using one pixel for the end of the crater then I will be okay with it as well.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know there are other similar lines but what a coincidence that this one follows the shape of the crater. Anyway if we take into account that the crater ends before it still looks like the size of a pixel.
 
And the only reason the results of both calcs are remotely similar is because Kulf Boba's calc uses one pixel at the end of the crater.

So stop acting like having both calcs with similar results somehow makes it consistent, because it doesn't.
 
The argument that the line at the end wasn't part of HE blast is just so sad lol this is even more unreasonable, outrageous argument than before lol
 
OK, I'll give my two cents on this. I think the original one needs to go as it becomes confusing as I have to squint my eyes to even see a glimpse of the buildings. But in place of that, we can use the building that Kulf Boba used as it is closest to the crater and likely will give the most accurate results. Then, we can remove the "extra" 1 pixel (seriously, 1 pixel. This is what you're fighting for now?) and create a new blog.

Not including ByAsura's cause their is clearly some consistency issue with the objects in the background (Murata hasn't drawn everything as accurately throughout the panels and the objects in the background fluctuate in size). As such, we should use direct measurements from around the crater itself.

Will that suffice?
 
Worthless said:
The argument that the line at the end wasn't part of HE blast is just so sad lol this is even more unreasonable, outrageous argument than before lol
Click to expand...
I have already found something that shows that the crater is 72 kilometers long.
In this panel you can see that the crater is very close to the horizon.
I4i11hl.png

Angsizing with the width of the crater we can find out that the panel is located at approximately 419.67 meters high.
At that altitude the horizon is 73.2 kilometers away, which is consistent with the length I calculated for the crater.
 
Kulf_Boba said:
By the way I have already updated my calculation with better quality scans and used another shape for the destroyed area, as this is not a perfect half cylinder.
vsbattles.fandom.com

One Punch Man - Homeless Emperor creates a large crater

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
The new result is 4.8 Gigatons (6-C).
Click to expand...
OK, this seems fine to me. I don't think this leaves any points for argument now. This one has the highest chance of getting accepted. Although I believe this isn't going to change the scaling that much.
 
Kulf_Boba said:
@Therefir In your calculation, what is the average in pixels at the end of the crater?
Click to expand...
I used two pixels, if we used that in your calc, we would get 2.41 Gigaton results.

I will re-measure my scaling using the closest building to the crater and see what I get.
 
It's done, I got 1.67 Gigatons.

I recommend normal users to stop derailing the thread with pointless comments, the only ones who can choose which calculation is going to be used are the members of the staff.
 
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