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Hollow Knight size problem

I do have a lot of feats, I made a whole respect thread (Would need to translate it but eh, it is kinda small so no worries) but I think it is a discussion better reserved for another thread. For the size one, I'm a bit lost. One of the points why I disliked the small size was the difficulty of making any straight decisions about the size.

Marmu is better than the stag, certainly. Not sure if it is the best option, but it certainly isn't the worst.
 
Unfortunately for slamming into stuff I don't expect too high of a result, KE uses both weight and speed after all and if the weight ain't there it's a bit hard to get too high in AP.

Using 2 cm for the Knight's height which is what the Marmu Reddit calc I found got me, I found the weight of a stink bug, which can reach 2 cm as well, and it's 0.123 g. Rounding that up to 0.15 since the Knight carries a weapon and is a fair bit larger, and using 350 m/s (barely supersonic) as speed, the result is... 9 joules.

Just for funsies, the Knight going at 93% of the Speed of Light, the highest value we accept, would reach Low 7-C
 
i mean, finding weight values for bugs is really hard, but even if it was ten times that it wouldn't be worthwhile. Keep in mind a bullet is 100 times heavier than this.
 
yeah, but just a nail swing wouldn't mean much, things like desolate dive, and howling wraiths are interesting, but 2 cm is still too small, even by this wikis standard, considering he is 11 cm, and right now, even that's iffy.
 
If large plants can be a stylistic choice, small ones can be too. And HK plants are way more consistently large- it just wouldn't look as cool if these were.
 
yes, but in this case they specifically look like roses, there's no stylization in this case, its just roses, you cannot debate whether or not they are roses, if hollow knight characters are 1cm tall, these roses should look gigantic, and this should also make sense using the wikis logic, because they use Marmu which looks like a type of caterpillar. but note that the roses are a bit larger than they should be. and a feat that should be looked into is hornet fargmenting a bridge with her silk.
 
That's a nice find. It kinda reinforces my earlier points, especially about the lumaflies being flies and stuff, but I'm a bit lazy atm so not gonna debate it further, at least not now.

And 9-A Knight is what you'd get if the bugs had average size. In the wiki I staff at, HK characters are mostly the equivalent to 9-A here, 8-C for the higher tiered ones, a lot higher for the god-tiers.
 
Actually, those aren't roses- I think those are the same species as the Delicate Flower, the one you have to carry for a sidequest in HK.

Pale Lady: "Ah, what precious gift it offers, though alas I shan't accept. Not of me that flower, nor of this kingdom. Far it travelled to reach this place, brought by one beloved, fair knight of lands serene. There is rare power hidden in those frail petals. To hold it so close, one must surely be unaware of its nature..."

Bit too magic of a flower to compare it to normal flowers in size imo.
 
Let's try and reach a conclusion here, do we scale off Marmu or keep it that way?
 
I do not think we should scale to real life bugs from reasons above and should be normal sized. “Scale off marmu or keep it that way” which way? Your way, our way? Is this a typo
 
Your argument isn't really enough to change my opinion. It's a fairly inconsequential one honestly. Considering you've outright said you're sad that this means no 9-A HK, I also have to question if you're doing this for accuracy or just for the sake of having a bigger number.
 
Nah, just want a stronger knight is all, and i have a pretty good argument, those are roses, not sure if they are stylistic or actually roses(which would upgrade size), but the only argument YOU’RE making is just we scale off marmu because he looks similar to something in real life, even though theres no proof of your claim except looks, give me one piece of evidence that should state that marmu is or isn’t bug sized, because theres not, we have no evidence for both points so why just assume they are bug sized? Oof sorry for stupid typos, small brain here
 
Whycantinamemyself said:
Nah, just want a stronger knight is all, and i have a pretty good argument, those are roses, not sure if they are stylistic or actually roses(which would upgrade size), but the only argument YOU’RE making is just we scale off marmu because he looks similar to something in real life, even though theres no proof of your claim except looks, give me one piece of evidence that should state that marmu is or isn’t bug sized, because theres not, we have no evidence for both points so why just assume they are bug sized? Oof sorry for stupid typos, small brain here
Click to expand...
I have made other arguments. Vegetation is consistently huge in HK, one or two exceptions are the stylistic choice, not the opposite. And saying that something that looks exactly like a specific bug is the size of a bug is not exactly a huge leap in logic, is it?
 
while you are technically right, your contradicting yourself, you can’t say the vegetation is oversized and then say our proof is stylistic choices, its one or the other, because if our proof are “stylistic choices” then your oversized vegetation could be stylistic choices Just as much. my marmu arguement is wonky , but i still think scaling to him is a bit off.
 
Except not really, because there's way more examples of huge plants, compared to one or two examples of smaller ones. As for Marmu, unless you can come up with a better bug to scale from, that's who I'd go with.
 
no matter how consistent, its still contradiction, because you were saying ur evidence was stylistic, while just because yours is stylistic, and other reasons like how the other characters(shade lord, hollow knight, radiance) tower over this consistently oversized vegetation. And again the knight is a baby(technically hes the same size as when he was born) his vessel is one of the shortest sprites in the game, if you took a human baby, and put it in-front of some tall grass, the grass is taller. and ignoring contradictions, things like bells, roses, and buzzsaws, all exist in HK, plus the fact that there IS a tree, the white lady, the pale king literally calls her “my root”.
 
Going by what you're suggesting, the Knight should be only a few tens of centimeters tall anyway. However, the Knight is as tall as the average inhabitant of this realm. And yes, no shit what the characters in HK build is scaled to them, why the **** would they build something much larger? That argument has no weight. You're just grasping at air.

Either way, if it can help, scaling to Marmu will basically double the Knight's currently used size, increasing his feat's AP by about 8 times. But if this thread dies down, that ain't happening.
 
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The White Lady is as far from a normal tree as it can be, by the way, and considering the people calling her that are bugs who've probably never seen an actual tree, that argument holds no weight either.
 
man, that was disorganized, and i couldn’t get my point across correctly, let me try again, and anyways, you said hes 1 centimeter? 1x2 is 2, unless you meant something else and im overnalysing.
 
Whycantinamemyself said:
man, that was disorganized, and i couldn’t get my point across correctly, let me try again, and anyways, you said hes 1 centimeter? 1x2 is 2, unless you meant something else and im overnalysing.
Click to expand...
Right now we consider him 11 mm tall, 1.1 centimeters. The Marmu calc should roughly double that, however due to square-cube law, the volume of the object the False Knight VFrags will go up by 2^3 times, which is 8.
 
Your argument is missing the main point of this threads argument Against Yours, there is no reason to assume that they are bug sized, so why do we assume they are, your argument about not building human sized, is from implicit bias of them being bug sized in the first place, which except for what is most likely just oversized vegetation to the knight, has no proof. And what would be the new AP for the knight after scaling to marmu.
 
Whycantinamemyself said:
Your argument is missing the main point of this threads argument Against Yours, there is no reason to assume that they are bug sized, so why do we assume they are, your argument about not building human sized, is from implicit bias of them being bug sized in the first place, which except for what is most likely just oversized vegetation to the knight. And what would be the new AP for the knight after scaling to marmu.
Click to expand...
The original argument that all of this stems from is that they are not bugs, but they are bug people. Since I have shown that there are certain characters that look a lot like regular bugs, that argument is gone.

Buildings and craft don't matter at all. They could be 1 mm tall, 170 cm tall or 30 meters tall, they'd still make buildings and objects comparable to them. There is no "implicit bias", it's just basic logic.

Nobody's gonna agree with you with these points, and you're just making this take more time. If you're gonna continue this, please collect them and put them in one post instead of coming up with more and more.
 
Thank you, I know it's hard to concede on debates such as this.
 
Anyway, to answer your question, the scaling they made does seem a bit generous, it's likely the Knight's more like 1.7 cm than 2.0 so a bit less than 8x, but either way they're gonna be 9-B for sure
 
Thats pretty good, maybe i could do more digging for feats of ap and speed, but dream feats definitely should be looked at, hell if we take each dream as endless and eternal, like the seer says, it might actually be 2-B, but thats highly unlikely and destroying all dreams would probably come out to like, 8-C maybe
 
Maybe, either way I'll bump this a few times and then ask Wok or Bambu to close this and to allow me to recalc the stuff.
 
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