Hollow Knight CRT

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I was decided to recalc the feat of the False Knight using the mantes to scale to the Knight height and I got 9-B results back:

Hollow Knight: False Knight Busting Re-recalc

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks fine.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

So is it okay to change the tiers or should more people agree?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Might need a bit more input.

 

[Armorchompy]

We did agree to not using the last stag's size in another CRT (though it never really got concluded), though we also thought about using Marmu instead... not that it really matters, size barely changes between the two. I agree.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

There was also a possible rel+ speed feat of the Knight, I might try calcing

 

[Armorchompy]

If it's the crystal beams, I'm pretty sure those were rejected as aim-dodging, and I kinda agree with that.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

The same thing happed in Gunvolt how come that gets pass?

 

[Armorchompy]

Mate, I don't care for Gunvolt, but the lasers are clearly telegraphed by a thinner beam of light before they actually hurt you.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Well, I just wonder now whether it was a good idea to make this calc or not

 

[Armorchompy]

?? The AP calc is good

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Mate, I don't care for Gunvolt, but the lasers are clearly telegraphed by a thinner beam of light before they actually hurt you.

You can wait for it to come out and still avoid it, I've done it plenty of times.

 

[Armorchompy]

You can wait for it to come out and still avoid it, I've done it plenty of times.

No? The hitbox is instantaneous, it doesn't have a speed. You're thinking about the thinner beam of light that doesn't have a hitbox.

 

[BlastX]

Do the beams from the Absolute Radiance count as dodging, IIRC they aren't as telegraphed as the other beams

 

[Armorchompy]

They're also telegraphed in the same way

 

[Armorchompy]

To refresh everyone's memory here, the bugs and the crystal boss both telegraph their beam with a thinner one as well.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

No? The hitbox is instantaneous, it doesn't have a speed. You're thinking about the thinner beam of light that doesn't have a hitbox.

If I can avoid the thinner beams of light then I'm still avoiding light. if anything, if I'm avoiding the telegraphed part hat still counts as a speed feat.

 

[Armorchompy]

If I can avoid the thinner beams of light then I'm still avoiding light. if anything, if I'm avoiding the telegraphed part hat still counts as a speed feat.

The light is SOL, the crystal bugs' movement isn't. If I swing a flashlight's beam at you and you move out of the way you're not Relativistic.

 

[Armorchompy]

As for avoiding the thin beam of light coming out:

1) Since it has no gameplay effect nothing says it's happening in canon

2) The timing and direction of the beams is consistent, considering that beam is also instant you likely predicted it

3) Even if you just looked into the future, since the beam is instant, you'd have to move before it comes out

4) There isn't even any proof it's real light

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

As for avoiding the thin beam of light coming out:
4) There isn't even any proof it's real light

The hunter’s journal consistently say that the beams are lasers

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright, though it's dubious if that's enough proof, especially considering the hunter isn't exactly a scientist.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

for the AP calc, do we need more input?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The light is SOL, the crystal bugs' movement isn't. If I swing a flashlight's beam at you and you move out of the way you're not Relativistic.

What you said is he avoids the thinner beams of light, your flashlight analogy doesn't work as there's no thinner beam of light I'm dodging there, that's just the movement. You never once even brought up the crystal bugs' movements in previous replies so I don't know why you even brought him up unless you worded yourself incorrectly.

 

[Armorchompy]

What you said is he avoids the thinner beams of light, your flashlight analogy doesn't work as there's no thinner beam of light I'm dodging there, that's just the movement. You never once even brought up the crystal bugs' movements in previous replies so I don't know why you even brought him up unless you worded yourself incorrectly.

???? Speaking of wording yourself incorrectly am I having a stroke or does this make absolutely no sense

Anyway there is no possible way you could react to the light itself coming out as I've explained. And the rest is very telegraphed

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

???? Speaking of wording yourself incorrectly am I having a stroke or does this make absolutely no sense

Anyway there is no possible way you could react to the light itself coming out as I've explained. And the rest is very telegraphed

If you can't read that idk what to telll you.

You admitted right here you can avoid the initial light, which is still lightspeed.

 

[Armorchompy]

Dude, the light is instantaneous. You have to move before it even comes out, it's physically, logically impossible to avoid it while moving as it's coming out, because it comes out in one frame.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Dude, the light is instantaneous. You have to move before it even comes out, it's physically, logically impossible to avoid it while moving as it's coming out, because it comes out in one frame.

You just repeated yourself

 

[Armorchompy]

You just repeated yourself

Yes, and I was right both times.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Yes, and I was right both times.

In one of your both times you admitted he can dodge the initial light, which would still be light dodging.

 

[Armorchompy]

In one of your both times you admitted he can dodge the initial light, which would still be light dodging.

If you move before an attack comes out, then you don't need to move at speeds comparable to it.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

If you move before an attack comes out, then you don't need to move at speeds comparable to it.

That's not what I'm talking about, even then you can calc the distance you moved vs the distance it moved

 

[Armorchompy]

That's not what I'm talking about, even then you can calc the distance you moved vs the distance it moved

You cannot do that. The beam does not move. It instantly appears. You know, the way light appears to someone who is not relativistic.

I'm sick of this discussion, if you want to keep arguing this, bring me an actual video of someone "dodging light" so I can deconstruct it more effectively instead of having to go off your vague description.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

You cannot do that. The beam does not move. It instantly appears. You know, the way light appears to someone who is not relativistic.

I'm sick of this discussion, if you want to keep arguing this, bring me an actual video of someone "dodging light" so I can deconstruct it more effectively instead of having to go off your vague description.

The beam moves from what I've seen in my fights.

I don't need to do that, and I supplied no vague description. You literally admitted he can dodge the initial light.

 

[Armorchompy]

The beam moves from what I've seen in my fights.

I don't need to do that, and I supplied no vague description. You literally admitted he can dodge the initial light.

The beam moves because the crystal bug holding it moves. But that bug is not moving at the speed of light.

If you want to convince me of something, you'll have to show me that something. Besides, you need that video for the calc anyway. And yes, I admitted you can dodge the light, by moving BEFORE THE LIGHT COMES OUT. Which is how you're supposed to avoid them. Predicting an attack and moving before it comes out is not eligible for speed scaling.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The beam moves because the crystal bug holding it moves. But that bug is not moving at the speed of light.

If you want to convince me of something, you'll have to show me that something. Besides, you need that video for the calc anyway. And yes, I admitted you can dodge the light, by moving BEFORE THE LIGHT COMES OUT. Which is how you're supposed to avoid them. Predicting an attack and moving before it comes out is not eligible for speed scaling.

I never said the bug moves = lightspeed, I already addressed this.

Idk where my job is to convince you I'm just pointing out what's wrong.

 

[Armorchompy]

The movement of the light itself is instantaneous. One frame, it's not there (with the exception of a tiny animation for the bug building power), the frame after, it is. Therefore, you cannot compare the Knight's speed to the light's speed.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Copen Laser speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think the same method can be used

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm still of the opinion that the light isn't meant to be reacted to, it comes out in a very predictable pattern and timing, and it's instantaneous once it does. Since that's the case, it's dishonest to assume the Knight does react to it.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Nah, the light is clearly aim-dodged. The thinner beam hits you but it cannot damage you. You can react to it starting to enlargen, but you cannot avoid it. I am sure those are actual beams of light, there is lot of evidence for that, but you cannot dodge them.

I support Hollow Knight speed amps, I do think they are supersonic thanks to shockwave dodging, the crystal heart solidly looking like a sonic boom and the characters in general creating air "shockwaves" when they dash, but speed of light has no solid evidence.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

This is kinda random and sadistic to think about but if these characters are bugs and have street to wall level durability, what happens if you try to crush them with you bare fist?

@Armorchompy is it okay to edit Hollow Knight characters from 9-C to 9-B now?