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Hit's Time Skip: A final explanation.

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RedReaper said:
I’m just sitting here. Losing sanity. I’m telling you, we just gotta bite the bullet and index them concurrently as it is seen and written.
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you know.....atp i think that it would be better to just do what my second thread did and list Time Skip as "Time Travel, Possibly Time Stop" and make the Goku resistance a "possibly" as well, making a note on the bottom explaining the sheer number of inconsistencies in the technique's portrayal
 
In the manga, realizing he had been relying upon basic Time-Skip for too long, Hit "evolved his technique" and developed the Time-Lag.

Considering the anime and manga are narrative parallels (à la Five Nights at Freddy's and Fazbear Frights), what's to say that Time Freeze and the Cage of Time are not merely evolutions of Time-Skip, an extension of Hit's general ability to manipulate time?—an ability established when the technique was first introduced.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
In the manga, realizing he had been relying upon basic Time-Skip for too long, Hit "evolved his technique" and developed the Time-Lag.

Considering the anime and manga are narrative parallels (à la Five Nights at Freddy's and Fazbear Frights), what's to say that Time Freeze and the Cage of Time are not merely evolutions of Time-Skip, an extension of Hit's general ability to manipulate time?—an ability established when the technique was first introduced.
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I mean, that is what I suggested last thread, so technically I’m being validated here, but buuut wasn’t this idea shot down because of Anime Hit claiming he was “Lengthening Time Skip” would mean it was also technically prior to this Time Freeze on a smaller scale? (The idea if which is something that was brought up in the Discussion Thread—Partially by you yourself.)
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
In the manga, realizing he had been relying upon basic Time-Skip for too long, Hit "evolved his technique" and developed the Time-Lag.

Considering the anime and manga are narrative parallels (à la Five Nights at Freddy's and Fazbear Frights), what's to say that Time Freeze and the Cage of Time are not merely evolutions of Time-Skip, an extension of Hit's general ability to manipulate time?—an ability established when the technique was first introduced.
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Well, problem is when he first seeminly froze Goku in time, he called it time and skip and explained what happened in exact same manner as his other enahncements with Time Skip, that he enhanced the lenght of it, while still calling it Time Skip and treating it no different than his normal one
 
omegabronic said:
Well, problem is when he first seeminly froze Goku in time, he called it time and skip and explained what happened in exact same manner as his other enahncements with Time Skip, that he enhanced the lenght of it, while still calling it Time Skip and treating it no different than his normal one
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Personally, I think you can see it as more proof that Time Skip is an umbrella term.
 
omegabronic said:
he enhanced the lenght of it
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Hit uses the word 拡大し when describing advancements; the word, "kakudai", is less "to lengthen" (伸ばす) or "to extend" (伸びる) in the sense of making something longer, and is more "to expand", "to magnify", or "to spread" in the sense of making something bigger, larger, broader.

Personally, I interpret that as, rather than extending the length of his Time-Skip, he is expanding the range, the scope, the effect of his Time-Skip, which includes how long he can use it for; it's why, when explaining how he developed Time Freeze, Hit never mentioned how far his "extension" went, unlike when he clarified the 0.2 seconds.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Hit uses the word 拡大し when describing advancements; the word, "kakudai", is less "to lengthen" (伸ばす) or "to extend" (伸びる) in the sense of making something longer, and is more "to expand", "to magnify", or "to spread" in the sense of making something bigger, larger, broader.

Personally, I interpret that as, rather than extending the length of his Time-Skip, he is expanding the range, the scope, the effect of his Time-Skip, which includes how long he can use it for; it's why, when explaining how he developed Time Freeze, Hit never mentioned how far his "extension" went, unlike when he clarified the 0.2 seconds.
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So what you’re saying is we went through 3 Threads because of non-specific TLs?
 
RedReaper said:
Personally, I think you can see it as more proof that Time Skip is an umbrella term.
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that can't be it given what Hit says about his other techniques in the rematch with Goku, he says he wouldn't use Time Skip, just for him to say that it is Time Skip against Dyspo, even it being an Umbrella term is inconsistent


Nullflowerblush said:
Hit uses the word 拡大し when describing advancements; the word, "kakudai", is less "to lengthen" (伸ばす) or "to extend" (伸びる) in the sense of making something longer, and is more "to expand", "to magnify", or "to spread" in the sense of making something bigger, larger, broader.

Personally, I interpret that as, rather than extending the length of his Time-Skip, he is expanding the range, the scope, the effect of his Time-Skip, which includes how long he can use it for; it's why, when explaining how he developed Time Freeze, Hit never mentioned how far his "extension" went, unlike when he clarified the 0.2 seconds.
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yeah but, in the earlier examples of what he means by this it is show that the thing he is "expanding" is the duration of his Time Skip, mostly of all, if it developed a new completely different ability like that.......why does the story seems to treat it as the same? Goku who is dealing with the ability never comments on it doing anything different, nor does Hit and in the phrase he is explaining how he dodged Goku, where he seeminly freezes him, he speaks as if he is doing the same thing as what he did prior, and still that wouldn't explain Vados saying that Time Skip simply doesn't stop time
 
RedReaper said:
Personally, I think you can see it as more proof that Time Skip is an umbrella term.
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Eh. The name Time-Skip, 時とばし, is literally "to skip over" + "time".
omegabronic said:
in the earlier examples of what he means by this it is show that the thing he is "expanding" is the duration of his Time Skip, mostly of all, if it developed a new completely different ability like that.......why does the story seems to treat it as the same?
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The term Piccolo, Krillin, and Hit himself use when describing the process Hit takes when expanding Time-Skip is 成長 (seichō), which is "growth", "development", or "maturation"; unlike Saiyans, possessing the ability to power-up via transformation, Hit can only "develop" or "mature" his technique.
（ヒット ）お前たちサイヤ人のように―変身してパワーアップできるわけでもなし…強くなるために 俺に残された方法は１つしかなかった
（クリリン）その１つって…
（ピッコロ）せ… 成長だ
（ベジータ）何だと！？
（ピッコロ）ヒットは この短い時間でただただ まっとうに成長したんだ
Hit: "Unlike you Saiyans, I couldn't just transform and power up... there was only one way left for me to become stronger."
Krillin: "That one way..."
Piccolo: "Was 'growth'..."
Vegeta: "What?!"
Piccolo (cont.): "Hit has done nothing but grow—and grow precisely—in such a short amount of time."
Throughout the battle with Goku, Hit aims to "最新の俺のポテンシャルを―最大限まで引き出す", or "draw out my latest potential to its fullest", rapidly "advancing" himself and improving upon and developing new martial arts stances, which, ultimately, culminates in a 0.5 sec Time-Skip.

Evidently, Hit's Time-Skip technique in only in its infancy, with Hit never requiring further development, and, as such, his abilities—which Bulma describes (and Jaco and the Galactic King co-opts) as uniformly 時間のコントロール, or "control of time"—are undeveloped and unexplored.

Everybody's (sans Angels) knowledge of Time-Skip is word of mouth, and Vados's explanation of Hit's abilities only clarify that Hit can skip time, and that he can create a separate space, not that said things are the only things Hit can do. Time-Skip very well could be a misnomer, only describing its foremost function.

Perhaps every other ability is derived from the time he saves by skipping. Technically, then, even freezing time could be listed under "Time-Skip".
 
RedReaper said:
I’m just sitting here. Losing sanity. I’m telling you, we just gotta bite the bullet and index them concurrently as it is seen and written. Because reconciling this ability is impossible.
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I'd also make the Time Skip simply an Umbrella Term for a set of abilities Hit can use, because it clearly doesn't have a single effect unlike Jojo stuff.
 
So, just for clarification’s sake, are we concluding on Null’s (and my previous) take, or are we just clicking all of the above, giving Goku the necessary abilities/resistances, and calling it there (with a note on the inconsistent nature of Time Skip)? Because this thread is petering out and I feel like it’s a relatively important one to conclude given the conjunction Smurf Hit thread.
 
RedReaper said:
So, just for clarification’s sake, are we concluding on Null’s (and my previous) take, or are we just clicking all of the above, giving Goku the necessary abilities/resistances, and calling it there (with a note on the inconsistent nature of Time Skip)? Because this thread is petering out and I feel like it’s a relatively important one to conclude given the conjunction Smurf Hit thread.
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Well, if Nulls take is to be taken then.......a fee problems need sorting out, if Time Skip only became Time Stop in the final clashes of Goku vs Hit, then U6 Goku wouldn't a resistance to Time Stop in that Arc as he didn't resist both occasions of it, only countering the time travel one, then in the Hit rematch when he says Time Skip won't work on Goku at all......we would get into the problem of Time Skip apparently being an umbrella term, since that would make Hit's dimension shifting with his pocket dimension also a Time Skip, making the statements in the fight get contradicted as the Time Skip would have been used and worked contrary to what Goku and Hit said, unless we assume he is talking about the base time traveling Time Skip, which would make Goku not have the resistance to Time Stop from the variation
 
omegabronic said:
Well, if Nulls take is to be taken then.......a fee problems need sorting out, if Time Skip only became Time Stop in the final clashes of Goku vs Hit, then U6 Goku wouldn't a resistance to Time Stop in that Arc as he didn't resist both occasions of it, only countering the time travel one, then in the Hit rematch when he says Time Skip won't work on Goku at all......we would get into the problem of Time Skip apparently being an umbrella term, since that would make Hit's dimension shifting with his pocket dimension also a Time Skip, making the statements in the fight get contradicted as the Time Skip would have been used and worked contrary to what Goku and Hit said, unless we assume he is talking about the base time traveling Time Skip, which would make Goku not have the resistance to Time Stop from the variation
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This part is already handled, remember? It was verbatim called Time Skip in the ToP by Hit, Dyspo, and Jiren. So that part is perfectly fine.

Goku would probably have resistance to Time Stop in the Assassination Arc key though, yeah, not U6 V U7. Since Hit claims Time Skip just wouldn’t work on Goku in that fight, and the variations Goku has seen and could feasibly counter, as far as Hit knows, is Skip and (given he did use it on Goku successfully previously) Stop.

This only leaves designating the Mid Time Skip movement feat to catch Hit as an outlier or Limited Time Travel (via force/speed?)
 
RedReaper said:
This part is already handled, remember? It was verbatim called Time Skip in the ToP by Hit, Dyspo, and Jiren. So that part is perfectly fine.

Goku would probably have resistance to Time Stop in the Assassination Arc key though, yeah, not U6 V U7. Since Hit claims Time Skip just wouldn’t work on Goku in that fight, and the variations Goku has seen and could feasibly counter, as far as Hit knows, is Skip and (given he did use it on Goku successfully previously) Stop.

This only leaves designating the Mid Time Skip movement feat to catch Hit as an outlier or Limited Time Travel (via force/speed?)
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Thing is, in that arc Hit and Goku say that he isn't Time Skip, but the ToP that it is Time Skip......so we would need to cover that as well, even if by a note

Also for the resistance, it would be with him in SSJB since thag is the state where Hit makes the statement, yes?
 
omegabronic said:
Thing is, in that arc Hit and Goku say that he isn't Time Skip, but the ToP that it is Time Skip......so we would need to cover that as well, even if by a note

Also for the resistance, it would be with him in SSJB since thag is the state where Hit makes the statement, yes?
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Correct.

Also, I think the note should cover the in general inconsistent nature OF Time Skip, to get across how much this power was deliberated on and why this conclusion was adopted.
 
SwordLegendz01 said:
Rewatching their fight, I see something here. At first Goku looks frozen
ibb.co.com

IMG-20240518-211724 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-20240518-211724 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co.com ibb.co.com

Then his body color changes visually when he moves in the middle of the Time-Skip Hit
ibb.co.com

IMG-20240518-211740 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-20240518-211740 hosted in ImgBB
ibb.co.com ibb.co.com

What is this really?
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I imagine it’s just nondiegetic. Similar to Frieza “holding the planet” in Z, to symbolize his power, I imagine this color change is to literally symbolize the realization of what Hit thought was absolute simply isn’t, because Goku, being passively in the Kaioken x10, was beyond that version of the Time Skip, so it couldn’t of affected him whatsoever.

Though that could admittedly be a reach and me trying to avoid further conversation on how wacky this all is.
 
Like I said, I assume it's nondiegetic, as the Kaioken x10 is giving Goku passive force through Time Skip, and the shift change happens when Hit's perspective is shattered. Or I guess you can assume it's an active use of ability instead of Passive, which achieves the same result as passive, but y'know, have to cognitively use your outlier time travel speed now.
 
I'm gonna be completely honest, never have I seen this much discussion over a character who straight up does something and says he does something.

Hit stops time against the mob boss and then says "Time has stopped". That should really be the end of that. Statement and feat. Done.

At this point we should make CRTs against Dragonball characters flying. Because while they show visual evidence of flying, say that they fly, and have the properties of flying I still don't believe they're actually flying.
 
Lawyerr said:
I'm gonna be completely honest, never have I seen this much discussion over a character who straight up does something and says he does something.

Hit stops time against the mob boss and then says "Time has stopped". That should really be the end of that. Statement and feat. Done.

At this point we should make CRTs against Dragonball characters flying. Because while they show visual evidence of flying, say that they fly, and have the properties of flying I still don't believe they're actually flying.
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No one is sayinf that Hit can't stop time at all.....so the analogy you made doesn't work

The discussion is about the Time Skip specifically, it is verbatim said that it makes Hit travel through time and has instances of Goku clear moving during it, you cannot ignore those, specially the former since if it doesn't work as said, then Hit's pocket dimension makes no sense
 
omegabronic said:
The discussion is about the Time Skip specifically, it is verbatim said that it makes Hit travel through time and has instances of Goku clear moving during it, you cannot ignore those, specially the former since if it doesn't work as said, then Hit's pocket dimension makes no sense
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I was just pointing out absurdity that comes with Hit discussion. Time stop denying is always first on the list.

But in terms of this thread, arguing by pointing out something, highlighting the inconsistencies, then looping back to where it started goes no where.

I already think the correct solution was given pages ago with an umbrella approach. Collect all the "time skip" stuff together and slap some explanations.
 
Lawyerr said:
I was just pointing out absurdity that comes with Hit discussion. Time stop denying is always first on the list.
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Why when no one did this in this or any of the recent previous threads on the topic?

Lawyerr said:
But in terms of this thread, arguing by pointing out something, highlighting the inconsistencies, then looping back to where it started goes no where.
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Now you see our dilema

Lawyerr said:
I already think the correct solution was given pages ago with an umbrella approach. Collect all the "time skip" stuff together and slap some explanations.
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Which brings its own problems and inconsistencies as pointed out in this thread
 
I thought we did? Index it as "This ability is inconsistent, so we reached a THIS conclusion" note. The conclusion being simply treat it/put in the P&A as what it is-Stop and Skip simultaneously, since it objectively must be both for the major plot moments to work the way they do despite the secondary (and contradictory) information saying it is specifcally one or the other.
 
RedReaper616 said:
I thought we did? Index it as "This ability is inconsistent, so we reached a THIS conclusion" note. The conclusion being simply treat it/put in the P&A as what it is-Stop and Skip simultaneously, since it objectively must be both for the major plot moments to work the way they do despite the secondary (and contradictory) information saying it is specifcally one or the other.
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Well, no staff agreed with it for a conclusion to be made

Since it is inconsistent on what it does, it being a "possibly Time Stop" while having a note in the profiles explaining the inconsistencies seems like the best way to honestly deal with it imo
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Looks alright from a glance.
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Only DDM ever voted, and that was to OP, which OP themselves later on changed a bit their stance, culminating with this:
StrymULTRA said:
If someone wants to redo my blog, they're free to do so if they believe to be capable of giving a better explanation than I did. I can give the source code of it as a template if needed.
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So yeh, ain't concluded.
 
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