• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi CRT No: 1 The Fixing

Status
Not open for further replies.
20,504
1,587
Ok so i finished reading the Kenichi manga and there are several problems and wrong info with the current pages so, this 1st CRT will serve only to right the wrongs, i won't be adding any abilities, or new calcs, just fixing the info already on the profiles.

Akisame Koetsuji
Durability: While the tier is fine, the justification has a mistake. And that is "other master class fighters". Master class fighters are actual fodder in comparison to Akisame. Akisame is a Supermaster/Grand Master class, same for the Yami people who he scales from.

Kenichi Shirahama
Speed: That's wrong. He shouldn't scale like that. He was keeping up with 2 Ryouzanpaku Class "with his eyes" as in "can see their fight happening". Which would at best be a reaction speed feat.

Endurance: Kenichi's an insane stone wall. He tanked several hits from a Ryouzanpaku class fighter like Kensei and was still getting up. While none of those hits were serious, neither were the hits which broke the towers which the 8-B is from.

Weakness: Kenichi lacks "Killer Intent" not "instinct". Due to lacking killing intent however he becomes hard or impossible to be sensed by people who can sense killing intent. So that is very much NOT a weakness, it's a strength.

Kenichi can fight girls he would just rather avoid it. He is not against locking them or doing anything that doesn't avoid actually punching them. That should be clarified too.

Some techniques require him to be very calm sure, but they cannot easily be interrupted without abusing a single weakness. Which is that he likes Miu. He will only get flustered and lose his calm if anyone mentions that.

Mikumo Kushinada
Boy there are some wrong stuff with her. So

Summary: "The 2nd strongest". It should just be "One of the strongest". As Seizu and Saiga exist, and there is no telling who is stronger.

AP: Though i am unsure, if her damaging a Ryouzanpaku Class like Apachai counts as an AP feat as that would contradict her whole style, so i am not sure, someone can decide on that. Same for her stopping Aksiame's palm strike.

Moreover i don't know where the "required the combined efforts of all ryouzanpaku masters to defeat her" came from. They weren't fighting her, they were fighting her group. It was a 4 vs 3 scenario. It in no way translates as her alone against all 4. And they weren't even all Ryouzanpaku people. Shigure was also missing. And it shouldn't even be in the AP section, as it is through purely skill not AP that she does that. In the IQ section we could add that she can easily fodderize high tier GrandMasters.

Speed: High Hypersonic (Should likely scale to Hayato's feat given he was pretty casual when he did it)

Durability: Same as AP.

Range: Should be hundreds of meters. Seems much higher than dozens, probabaly up to kilometers for reaching the sky

As for her overall fighting capability. While dropping the fight and wanting to retreat , she momentarily incapacitated 6 Ryouzanpaku class masters at the same time. This is a lot more legit of a feat than saying they all ganged up on her, which never happened. And her "deafeat" never happened, idk where that came from. The most that happened is Kensei Ma stripping her, while getting almost 1 shotted by her in exchange, they never stood a chance. So im not saying all 4 of them could beat her or stand a chance at all, im just saying it never happened.

Weakness: That's not really the case, she can lose her calm but it doesn't hinder her fighting capability. Getting angry is not a weakness unless it has weaknesses that come with it.

Hayato Furinji
AP: My god, where do i begin with this one?

"Can stomp a disciple using 1/5000 of his power". That's wrong...VERY wrong. First of all, he didn't stomp a single disciple, he stomped 2 High Tier disciples (likely expert class) at the same time while trying to teach them.

Second of all, it is not 1/5000. It is 0.0002% which is 1/500'000 of his power.

Third of all he overpowered the same disciple using only 0.0001% of his power.

Lastly there is this. Akisame states that even with his eyes closed and only using 0.0002% of his power, he still was the strongest being in this planet (likely limited to the people akisame knows, which would still make him more powerful than Ryozanpaku masters such as himself)

So Hayato's AP should be: At least 7-C (For overpowering kenichi with 0.0001%), likely 7-B (Akisame's statement).

Durability: Scales to AP. As he was barely even grazed by the missile.

Stamina: Running across an ocean isn't as big of a stamina feat as him fighting for way over a week (probably 2 weeks or so) against an opponent on his level, having only slept for several minutes or an hour at most with barely anything to eat.

Seikuke: Idk why it says "jumping or moving makes it almost impossible", when Odin (High level Disciple class) was capable of doing it.

Well that's about it.
 
Can you link Sakaki's hypersonic feat? Also iirc Elder's camera feat is angled in a way that pixel scaling the distance is possible. I think that can just be calced

Hard no to Kenichi's durability upgrade, even if his durability is greater than his AP, he still trades blows with character who can injure him. The disparity isn't huge enough for his dura to be 8-B without his AP following suit

I'll comment on the other stuff later
 
Not sure about it, the actual manga panels don't show fire at all, just those impact effects

No master goes all out against Kenichi, and even if the 8-B feat was casual, it would still need to be proven that they were putting more effort into hitting Kenichi than Akira was into punching the tower. It's like with Saitama, all his feats are casual but that doesn't mean you can scale people to his more powerful casual feats


As for some other stuff

Hayato's feat of fighting for days (or weeks or whatever) definitely needs to be on his stamina section, I'm actually shocked it wasn't

Kushinada scaling to 8-B should be fine, since this is a direct feat of harming an 8-B character. If it was indirect scaling then the point about her style being 100% technique based would matter

Hayato's multiplier should just apply to Kenichi and Miu's AP. As stated in the fight, he was fighting completely seriously after restraining his true power, so it wouldn't add up he was also stronger than the masters in this state

The explanation of seikuken says jumping or moving makes it difficult, not near impossible, and I believe it's talking about the technique in general, not whether Hayato in particular will struggle when using it
 
In that page, the 2nd pannel, it shows stuff flying out of their fight (seemigly fire).

A master class went all out and Kenichi still survived, which is why everyone in Ryouzanpaku were both pround and amazed that he could come out alive from a clash against a master class. He takes hits on a daily basis against Apachai who specifically cannot hold back when fighting. And after Ryuuto joins Kenichi to fight against Kensei,the attacks do get a lot more serious with Kensei even stating "i will respond like a true martial artist". And even used finger attacks (which are basically killing moves), against kenichi.

Other stuff:

Ok.

Hmm scaling. Wouldn't that invalidate the point of her martial arts using "100% technique", it wouldn't be 100% technique if she's overpowering them with raw AP. Maybe a form of getting AP from countering the enemy? Though i guess that would still scale either way, so fair enough then.

Why so? That would put them below what they have already shown. The 9-A is a feat. As for stronger than the masters, well, he was still an insurmountable wall. What he was doing was fight against them while giving them a lesson about team work. He wanted to develop their team work not AP. As he was clearly immensly above them in AP either way.

Yes but that seems about the same as saying "running is more dificult than walking" on every humanoid page ever. If even the first use of Seikuken ever seen by a disciple is on the level where it can be kept up even while fighting, then what's the point of it even being there when everyone else literally just upscales massively from it? Cus it gives the idea that it is a weakness when it is not.
 
I agree with Akisame upgrades since he is vastly above anything Kenichi has shown.

Akira Hongo - agree.

Kushinada should also be upgraded since she is one of the strongest from Kenici (verse) and counting that she's regarder high even by Hayato.

Hayato is vastly superior to anyone in the verse but it depends on how we take the 0.0002% statement. Not sure on his AP since this a really big multiplier if we were to use. Not even sure what calculation do we even have for their current tier.

I too expected his stamina to have that feat included already.

Kenichi - He may see the fight but not be able to move at such speed. Ogata seems to take them more seriously but not at the level he takes other Masters so his durability should be higher than what he has but not sure if it should scale to Ogata's AP.

That weaknees on his profile is really useless there since like you said it's more of a strenght. Kenichi will fight with girls but as in the "hitting them" and more in "locking, blocking, incapaciating" them.
 
Hayato is not superior to "everyone". Ougi is about equal to him, with Hayato having a maybe small advantage, but it's not noticable if he needed 2 weeks to break free. About the multiplier, it's an actual technique and considering the missile calc's high end was indeed 7-C and he was completely unharmed from taking it at point blank.

Kenichi- Maybe not Ogata's AP (as Ogata with Sei Do Gouitsu is probabaly Advanced Master Class (curb stomped 2 of the 9 fists who were about on par with Ryouzanpaku masters insantly), but he should scale to Apachai's AP, as he is specifically bad at holding back and Kenichi actually progresses into tanking them later on without dying as he did before.
 
That looks more like gusts of air than fire

Once again, Kenichi fights people who are capable of injuring him. You can't upgrade his durability unless you are also willing to upgrade his AP to around Apachai's level, and the manga makes it very clear why that shouldn't be done.


Your fighting style not relying on AP doesn't contradict being able to harm someone with your own strength, and she does since she uses kicks in that panel. Because of that she scales, simple as that, the nature of her style just means she can fight much tougher opponents than herself


They were still capable of withstanding Hayato's attacks at that level, and if masters are weaker than Hayato in this state, then the difference between masters and kenichi would be much smaller than is on our profiles. This could change if your claim of Kenichi's dura being 8-B is accepted, but that revision still has major problems with scaling as I have mentioned. Even putting that aside, Silkwat was capable of giving Hayato a challenge, and it's doubtful that the masters won't know about that when Miu did, so the statement is still contradicted

I'm fine with changing the wording on Seikuken
 
Where's the Mach 32 thing coming from? As in the actual speed, not the justification.
 
The only one ever who was able to put down kenichi with punches was the Muay Thai user and that's only because he stopped his heart. Otherwise he keeps getting beat up for days in weak spots and literally everywhere else and still gets up. His fight against shio was one where he kept getting beat up until he eventually grew stronger. Whereas Apachai does the same in 1 hit.

Fair enough then.

Not really. It's not like Hayato was actually going for the punch and they didn't even take that many hits. Besides how is it any different from Kenichi surviving against his masters' blows normally?
 
I don't think it is. The value is probably based on meteorite speeds. Can you link the source please?
 
I really can't do any debunk because they don't provide a source or reason why. I can't find anything either.
 
Near sea-level, where the air density is higher and ablation is easer, it's mach 5 by running. But it could be significantly higher anywhere else and IDK if a punch would need to go much faster.
 
That's the speed you need to utterly incinerate a person and their clothes.
 
He survives the hits, but he doesn't shrug them off like nothing, someone doesn't have to kill you to scale to your durability, they just need to cause damage, which is why both his opponents and him will scale to 8-B if his durability is that high, no other way around it

Most masters hold back against Kenichi, iirc even Apachai did actually learn to hold back early on in his training. And if by "not going for the punch", you mean not hitting them seriously, it is stated that he was fighting seriously after he had cut down his power to 0.0002%, so he wasn't hitting them with anything less than that
 
@Fire Sure, if we can't find an alternative/more reliable source.
 
Kenichi does shrug off most punches at first, it's only later on in fights that he starts getting beat up, besides if he can get up after hundred or so punches from an opponent it does seem like he's a pretty heavy stone wall. So what is your idea on this then? Treat everytime kenichi tanked a blow from Supermaster class as PIS? That's a bit too many considering that's the whole point. And the thing about Kenichi is, that Durability and Endurance seem to be separate. So he gets hurt, but he can get back up.

He did, but that seems to be forgotten latter on as he still ends up sending Kenichi flying, that was relevant for like 1 moment for some Apachai character development and was never spoken of again. Besides this is what he does by screaming even like that, even shigure states "what power" and has a struggling face on.
 
Thing is most masters don't go all out, so only the Apachai parts would be PIS. Durability and endurance being separate doesn't help your case, in fact if he gets hurt but can get back repeatedly that implies his dura and AP aren't wide apart, and that his endurance is playing the major role in letting him last as long as he does
 
So hmm...endurance instead of dura? Ok. Fair enough.

I assume you agree with Hayato 0.0002% > Masters from Shigure and Akisame's proof?
 
Why so? There's proof from both Akisame and Shigure? With Shigure being amazed at his power and struggling just from him releasing his ki.
 
I think that most of the first post seemed to make sense, except for Kenichi's durability, but Andy is likely better suited to evaluating this than I am.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that most of the first post seemed to make sense, except for Kenichi's durability, but Andy is likely better suited to evaluating this than I am.
Ok thanks for the input.

Me and andy decided for it to be "endurance" rather than "durability". So he can be injured or hurt, but you need to hurt him a LOT for him to go down.
 
I made some changes to the OP and removed the things that were disagreed on (like the speed rating since it was apparently an incorrect assumption).
 
I've done a calc of that missile feat, and it's nearly 20x higher than before. Hopefully, it'll be accepted.

Was this a nuclear missile, by the way?
 
I am not sure whether it was stated to be a nuclear missile or not, but i think it was gonna destroy all of japan.
 
Though i have a problem with the calc, and that is Senzui's height. He's definitely not 1.71m. The wiki puts him at 1.9m, but he should be well above 2m (considering these guys look like giants in front of kenichi).

I'll get back at you with a pic to scale him from.
 
They're not entirely in frame, both of them, it doesn't really work.

I've updated it with 2 m.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top