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High 8-C Tournament (Round 2, Match 12) Claire Rouge VS Scorpion

Oh boy, here we go.

Am I correct in assuming Scorpion's BFR is instant, and that resisting Hellfire also makes you resist fire?
 
Pretty sure Scorpion only does this when hes doing his fatality. For sure, hes far more experienced than Claire.
 
I ask because if Scorpion starts the fight by BFRing Claire into the Netherrealm, I don't see how she can stand a chance. Sure, she has instinctive reactions, and Ortlinde is a solid wincon, but with a constant stat amp/reduction going on for Scorpion/Claire, I dunno.

If he doesn't immediately do that, Claire does start with more AP and has 4 moves that are much stronger than that.
 
Hellfire =/= Fire. I believe that it is one that burns even hotter than fire, and even burns the soul.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
I ask because if Scorpion starts the fight by BFRing Claire into the Netherrealm, I don't see how she can stand a chance. Sure, she has instinctive reactions, and Ortlinde is a solid wincon, but with a constant stat amp/reduction going on for Scorpion/Claire, I dunno.
If he doesn't immediately do that, Claire does start with more AP and has 4 moves that are much stronger than that.
Click to expand...
Scorpion usually doesn't start a fight with BFR unless he really hates his opponent, as we can see when he killed the first Sub-Zero. He will, however, drag the enemy to Netherrealm if he feels that they are too big a threat to handle without his power boost.
 
Hellfire doesn't automatically burn your soul unless stated so. Hellfire is just really hot compared to regular fire, and Typically has the effect of burning ones soul. But it's got to have been stated or shown if Burns their soul it'd no game
 
Let me clarify some things in this thread. Scorpion's BFR is not a starting move, but it's something that he has considered using before. He used it against the original Sub-Zero but for personal reasons not related to battle. Scorpion also did something similar to his master Quan Chi, but not with his own abilities. Quan Chi was going to teleport him back to the 5th plane of the Netherrealm, however Scorpion's quick thinking let him use Quan Chi's own ability against him by grabling him as he was about to banished, causing them both to be sent there. Lastly, there's that one time he fought Taven and sent him to his lair in the Netherrealm but not before Taven defeated his summons.

Physically, Scorpion does have the AP advantage. He's not 2.5 tons since he scales to Jax whose cybernetic upgrades made him twice as strong, so that's Scorpion's 5 tons versus Claire's 4 tons. However the latter opponent does have techniques stronger than him.

His hellfire should burn the soul too, since it also burns the tortured souls of the Netherrealm. It's stated numerous times by Scorpion as well.
 
So once Scorpion knows he has the "lower hand" in raw power he will BFR Claire.

Now how well is Claire resisting that in return?
 
Instinctive reaction is my only current idea. With that, landing on her, plus her knowing his move set at that points going to make it pretty hard to actually grab her. She may be ablr to finish him off even before he does it. And getting to the nether realm to my recollection is a slow boost, meaning she still could overwhelm him quickly enough to kill him there should he not get amped fast enough. Much like hoe Raiden beat him in the nether realm before. As said above, she has solid win conditions. It may be more likely she gets then off since she will get a lot more time due to his OOC starting with BFR
 
I also forgot to mention that BFR can be used without physical contact, he can simply raise his arms to teleport her there as well if he decides to use it. The 5th plane of the Netherrealm will also warp her into a monster with significantly lower intelligence as well as drain her powers & fightng skills when she gets there.

Contrary to what most people know about Scorpion's power boost in the Netherrealm, it's not as slow as you think it is. The lore in the older MK games reveals that his power increases "with each passing moment" as stated by himself and the writers. There's no exact timeframe, but with his power increasing with every moment, it's definitely fast.

Scorpion has a few types of immortality that she has to go through otherwise she's not going to beat him. There's his resurrection which would take hours to complete but definitely enough time to not get a loss by SBA and his resilient immortality which allows him to shrug off most of her attacks and continue fighting.

As for Raiden beating him in the Netherrealm, I suggest looking at their power levels during that time because Scorpion wasn't even on par with him in MK9
 
I don't recall him doing it like that. Mind showing an instance where he did? If so, I'll be more inclined to seeing scorpion win since she has no other way to prevent it, and instinctive reaction does nothing to help there
 
Buttersamuri said:
I don't recall him doing it like that. Mind showing an instance where he did? If so, I'll be more inclined to seeing scorpion win since she has no other way to prevent it, and instinctive reaction does nothing to help there
Click to expand...
Here at 9:45
 
Ok yea. She doesn't have anyway to dodge that. So this is either she needs to quickly kill him or he last long enough to get to the netherrealm to overpower her eventually.
 
Claire will really need to rely on End of Vermillion, Frost Blaze and Ortlinde here. All 3 would be capable of harming Scorpion a lot. Claire has faced and defeated martial artists and fire-resistant enemies before. Ortlinde negates fire resistance, Vermillion cancels fire attacks and Frost Blaze can freeze on the spot.

On the other side, Claire has never faced teleporting opponents, as teleportation is very limited in Blade Dance and only accessible to some rare spirits. And even with her experience against martial artists, Scorpion is a league of his own. In purely close-combat potential, few characters in Blade Dance could match him.
 
Before Netherrealm, I think Claire can win this. She'll switch her whip into Ortlinde, making it a 2v1 where both have instinctive reactions, Frost Blaze can trap him allowing Claire to crush any frozen limbs, and Ortlinde is extremely strong and can absorb fire to become even more powerful (that includes Claire's flames). Considering Scorpion is mainly a martial artist, aka Standard melee range, there's a possibility Claire can land Blood Aria which will screw Socrpion badly.

If Scorpion survives and bring the fight to the Nether, it will most likely come down to Scorpion vs Ortlinde, as Claire will quickly become too weak to deal consistent damage, except maybe Vermillion and Frost Blaze.
 
I think I'll stick with Clair atm. Seems like she honestly should be able to beat down scorpion fast enough and avoid majority of damage due to instinctive reaction. If both share that and are tag teaming on scorpion, teleport attacks won't yield much damage. Scorpion taking it to the nether could give him a win, but that's only a could as it's still possible he loses, and starts out very weak due to getting slapped around by two people, and it's something he uses later game rather than early game. If he opened with it, a win for him. But for now, going Claire
 
If the fight drags to where it switches to the Nether, Scorpion likely won't be in top condition, either due to damage or stamina drain, and he has no methods of recovery. Meanwhile, if Claire gets injured, she can heal herself while Ortlinde keeps Scorpion busy. Finally, considering Claire's fighting style and tactics, she will likely fight a way(s) to defeat Scorpion through analysis as the battle is going on
 
I'd like to know how Scorpion isn't going to be in top condition as a wraith, when he has enough stamina to endure lethal torture for days, having lost pools of blood and a bunch of immortalities she has to deal with.

As for the fight in the Netherrealm, the realm will drain her strength, powers and fighting skills to the point where she cannot use spells or advanced attacks, forcing her to rely on simple, basic attacks as well as turn her into a monster that's fundamentally different from herself, and its effects are more potent against those who use magic or are created by magic.
 
Just cause he can take that, doesn't mean he automatically is immune to his stamina dropping. If he is getting pounded on by 2 people at the same time, his stamina still is going to be drained down. he won't be at his top condition when in the nether.
 
That's of course, assuming Scorpion lets himself get hit by the projectiles. Which should be less likely thanks to his instant, long ranged and rapid teleportation. Against a zoner, he wouldn't opt for hand to hand combat and go for his ranged options. If Scorpion notices more of her magical attacks or realizes the danger he's in (which shouldn't take long enough) then BFR becomes an option.

Plus, the Netherrealm is going to rejuvenate him anyways. That place is full of Netheressence, which is the equivalent of life force for undead beings like himself and he can simply regain more of that energy just by being there.
 
Let's himself get hit by projectiles? Bruh, I don't think anyone would let themselves get hit by projectiles. Teleportation was not a spammer for dodging, and he is FAR more likely to get hit due to their instinctive reaction.
 
So how exactly does her instinctive reaction work? And I think you got that mixed up because that ability is meant for defensive and evasive purposes, not increasing the chances that an attack would land.
 
In this key, Claire's instincts can be applied to her reactions just as well as her combat capacities in general. She's naturally gifted in instincts, observation, sensing and strategy. Her observation skills allow her to rapidly get a solid idea of how her opponent fights and appropriate ways to face them thanks to her intelligence. That extends to her never having fallen for the same trick twice. Her skills don't reach the level of "she can read her opponent like a book" or "precognition", however they're one step beyond just reactions. The longer the fight lasts, the less effective Scorpion's teleportation will be.

You're right that instinctive reactions don't directly add much in the chance of landing attacks, and Scorpion being an expect martial artist makes it easier for him to dodge attacks, but most of Claire's spells are AoE and Hell Hounds are homing. If Scorpion decides to maked a ranged fight, it's better for Claire who can casually spam Fireballs, Fire Bursts and a couple Frost Blazes/Vermillion, while having Ortlinde chase him all over. If he wants to make it a melee fight, Ortlinde will always be in the way and Blood Aria will screw him.
 
That's nothing like instinctive reaction. That is analytical prediction at best.

AoE attacks and homing attacks can still be dodged by Scorpion. How you may ask? Scorpion can disappear using his TP and delaying the moment he appears to cause the attack to miss since there's no target to chase. He can do the same thing against AoE attacks by waiting for it to finish dispersing before coming back.

Scorpion has experience with 2v1 battles especially when the opposing team attacks him with different fighting styles. He fought Cyrax, a Lin Kuei assassin who specializes in traps and hidden weaponry who has with Sektor, another LK assassin who specializes in long ranged combat using homing missiles and teleport attacks.

Blood Aria is a melee strike so it easily gets countered by Scorpion's various fighting styles that utilize joint locks, parrying, etc.

And there's BFR which seems more likely given the amount of magic attacks that Scorpion is going to experience
 
That's why I said Blood Aria was just a possibility, not a guaranteed success. There's a chance that, if and when Scorpion goes in melee, she'll manage to place her palm on his body.

Hunting Hounds don't disappear if there's no target. They only do when they either reach someone, get blocked, or Claire cancels them.

I don't doubt Scorpion's fighting ability. But keep in mind Claire has a passive stat amp on her from Flames of Elstein, which might be enough to close the small AP gap between them, and that Ortlinde is much stronger than her master, as she one-shot a top-tier character while Claire was struggling hard.
 
The speed depends on what kind of effect. The effects of the Netherrealm include passive transmutation and corruption on a physical and spiritual level. I'm not sure if this effect is combat applicable since info on this one is vague. It was mentioned in a character bio where said character just finished an intense battle before she began feeling its effects but there's no timeframe on the battle.

There's also its gradual power drain which is potent enough to weaken characters stronger than Scorpion especially when most of their strength and power comes from magic. Not just that, but it also drains their powers and fighting skills. Unlike the former, this one seems faster since Quan Chi was unable to effectively use his magic on Scorpion when he entered the realm.
 
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