Heroes Grand Priest vs Darkrai

[Adem_Warlock69]

What's The GP wincon again?

 

[Rose_of_Ragnarok]

What's The GP wincon again?

Passive probability, I think?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And yet game mechanics that were never treated as anything are accepted on their profile while other stuff isn't, you can't go 'i don't trust the profiles' and then not put Pokemon under the same standard.

I'v seen it and meh, they aren't portrayed as all that agile, their dodging stuff is closer to what Freezer did to Vegeta's barrage of attack rather than what you would do in a game of Touhou.

Speed Equalized mean that's pointless.

First of all, I wasnt the one who said I distrust DBH profiles. Second of all, name examples. Because as others have listed here, I am with almost near full certainty your wrong on that too.

Infinite Speed from within the verse isn't pointless. My point is that comparing the agility of a non infinite speed fodder to an infinite speed god tier is quite a false comparison.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Is there a difference between a character sleeping and being forced to sleep? It yields the same result.

The latter is a hax affect that isn't just simply falling asleep naturally like you do when tiring out.

 

[GyroNutz]

Is there a difference between a character sleeping and being forced to sleep? It yields the same result.

In this case yeah. Ultra Instinct moves without the user having to have any input, however if the user does have an input (as shown by Goku defending his friends from Jiren, idk if it's different in heroes) it overrides whatever Ultra Instinct does. If GP goes to sleep normally, they have no input on their body so they can attack in their sleep. If GP has to sleep, his body will persist in sleeping which overrides UI. And having violent nightmares (caused by Darkrai's Bad Dreams ability) definitely overrides whatever UI wants to do.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I'm confused. If he doesn't need an input for his body to move then surely it will move regardless of if he's experiencing nightmares?

Are you saying the input will be nightmares which overrides UI? I'm dumb sorry.

 

[PaChi2]

>Pokemon vs DB

Ah. A classic.


Oh Boy

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also, if it wasn't clear already, im voting Darkrai for Cal's reasons.

No one has given me any actual explanation as to how good Grand Priests sleep resistance hax (even assuming it's legit) is besides a vague "meh it's strong so its enough" reasoning to actually make it believeable that Dark Void wouldn't affect him.

The only thing from GP here thats worth noting is his passive probability hax, which not only is riddled with NLF in it, but it's also not as useful as people think (Dark Void can also affect the opponent by appearing under them even if not directly contacting them, and it can be used as thought based sleep hax, the latter not being a physical projectile that can be avoided).

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Can't Darkrai one shot with Roar of Time?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Also didn't Goku master UI whilst still having an input?

 

[GyroNutz]

As for Time Tripper, GP has Statistics Reduction and Teleportation as well as a degree of Power Null (can negate flight). Combined with Ultra Instinct, skill and experience and I don't think it's far-fetched for him to keep his wits as he fights someone twice his speed.

Out of curiosity, would resistance to Mind Manipulation function for Sleep Manipulation? I imagine there is a distinction, but some overlap may help GP here.

Idk what "reducing enemies power to 1" means but it seems to be based on AP, which GP already has in droves.

Never played Heroes (or watched much of the series) but I doubt teleportation or power null is something he would use in combat.

Sleep Manipulation can be biological, but if it's a mental form of sleep manip, then yeah it can.

 

[PaChi2]

Can't Darkrai one shot with Roar of Time?

U wot m8

Cant GP put a barrier against Dark Void or hit the spheres with Ki blasts or something?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

The forced dreams actually seem to be a form of Mind Manipulation rather than Sleep Manipulation. The Sleep Manipulation if the enforcement of sleep. The Enforced Nightmares would be taking the fears or whatever of the GO and making him experience them over and over.

 

[Akreious]

Wait are people arguing Dark Void will insta-KO Grand Priest? Because IIRC, most forms of Dark Void can indeed be dodged or otherwise circumvented. Only one form of Media I can recall has instant, no-projectile/non-dodgeable Dark Void but that'd be like "All Godzillas can fly because that one Godzilla did despite all the other ones saying otherwise".

 

[Dragomer]

Wait are people arguing Dark Void will insta-KO Grand Priest? Because IIRC, most forms of Dark Void can indeed be dodged or otherwise circumvented. Only one form of Media I can recall has instant, no-projectile/non-dodgeable Dark Void but that'd be like "All Godzillas can fly because that one Godzilla did despite all the other ones saying otherwise".

Even then, it looked more invisible than undodgeable IMO.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Darkrai can learn Road of Time, it's the reason why he has Time Manipulation, so why doesn't he use it? GP has nothing against it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

We're not arguing it's undodgeable. Obviously its not (unless you go with the thought based method?). We're arguing if it hits GP, it will affect him.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

We're not arguing it's undodgeable. Obviously its not (unless you go with the thought based method?). We're arguing if it hits GP, it will affect him.

The issue with that claim, is GP's skill, instinctive reactions and teleportation.

Whis constantly derides Goku for letting his guard down mid-battle, and trains his students to avoid making sloppy mistakes. So I doubt GP is going to let an unknown attack hit him, if he can help it.

You also have to note that auras can passively vaporise attacks, so realistically speaking why can't GP just vaporise all of Darkrai's Dark Voids with his Ki?

Finally, his fighting style in DBH is mostly staying at a range and executing abilities with a finger snappping. He's generally going to be far enough away to react, and has more than enough ranged capability to win via his potentially superior AP and instinctive reactions.

It's overall PRETTY unlikely for Darkrai to hit Grand Priest with a Dark Void before Grand Priest strikes Darkrai several times with a single barrage of attacks or using hax.

@Adem Warlock69

Grand Priest has resistance to Time Manipulation and Time Stop, based on other DBH characters resisting/being immune to Chronoa's time hax.

Chronoa maintains the flow of time across the entire multiverse, which is near-infinite in DBH. So I sincerely doubt Darkrai's Roar of Time is going to notably effect the Grand Priest.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Grand Priest fra.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

What about Spatial Rend?

 

[Lord_JJJ]

Darkrai for reason above

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

@Lord JJJ what reasons?

 

[PaChi2]

Darkrai can learn Road of Time, it's the reason why he has Time Manipulation, so why doesn't he use it? GP has nothing against it.

Darkrai cant learn those moves and if they are in the profile they should be removed.

Event!Darkrai should be non-canon.

If something like that is accepted Im willing to give GP's probability hax all of my support.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Why? Don't we use Event moves? lots of Legendaries have them, and GP already has Probability Manipulation, so I don't know why Darkrai having Road of Time and Spatial Rend isn't allowed.

 

[PaChi2]

How can you consider Event gifted legendary/unique pokemon canon?

 

[Dominodalek]

Where did Great Priest's probability manipulation come from anyway? It's not that he automatically wins Charge Impacts, but that as a support character he doesn't need one to use his abilities.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Just popping in to quickly to say regardless of the outcome of this thread the fact this thread quickly became yet another FRA train before the Pokémon supporters had a chance to counter the GPs win-con arguments is pretty terrible to say the least... :/

That said; A composite non-canon character Vs A composite canon character?, yeah I don't have the time nor patience to debate who "wins" good luck with the debate folks!.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

We've been arguing this entire time, Axiom and I have already stated that the Grand Priest's instinctive reactions enable him to dodge Dark Void and that his teleportation would let him deal with Darkrai forcing 2x Speed.

We've had over 100 posts arguing this for nearly 48 hours now so it's a tad ridiculous to claim the other side somehow didn't have the chance to debate or argue.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just saying, people are still lacking scans for both, this fighting style and pretty much everything for GP. Same with the profile in general.

Also yeah, Darkrai shouldn't have those two moves.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Didn't Lugia Use an event only move in the Anime?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I thought we only used and argued regarding profiles, and then supported anything beyond those profiles with scans?

The only thing I think I have personally argued, that would fall under lacking scans, is that Grand Priest would win this pretty easily due to probability manipulation but even if he lacked that, his skill, instinctive reactions, range and teleportation would enable him to win.

Also, I just realised. Does Darkrai have no EE resistance? I can't see anything on his profile for it and the Grand Priest's EE is more potent than a God of Destruction's EE.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The profile lacks scans altogether. We argue with profiles, sure, but the profile is completely unsourced and lacks CRTs with them.

And yeah. Darkrai has EE resistance. The fact that he was able to approach Diamond and Pearl at all shows that much.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Frieza's profile only links to his destruction of Planet Vegeta as a feat, and links to other character profiles for everything else.

Darkrai's profile only links to a respect thread regarding Tobias' Darkrai, which is the weakest Darkrai and considered an outlier (to my memory) due to how much weaker it is to the other Darkrai used for the 2-C, possibly 2-B justification. Also, it seems that respect thread was removed so it doesn't even count.

Grand Priest's profile at least explains and justifies most of his powers and abilities and scales him from other characters within DBH for his stats.

So, what exactly is the problem here?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Because Darkrai actually has CRTs showing the upgrades that you could look through? GP doesn't. Especially with the way people are treating his mindset of just instahaxing with snaps like he was Bill Cipher. Again, I'll believe that when Professor X outflips Olympians.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Because Darkrai actually has CRTs showing the upgrades that you could look through? GP doesn't. Especially with the way people are treating his mindset of just instahaxing with snaps like he was Bill Cipher. Again, I'll believe that when Professor X outflips Olympians.

So your issue is...that the Grand Priest, a new profile based on another, far older, profile, lacks threads where people argue over his abilities? Why is this an issue? The anime Grand Priest has had his profile for ages and most of the arguments being made for DBH Grand Priest is derived from his anime incarnation.

The hax that is DBH-specific (and resistances) are barely even relevant to the arguments made in this thread. I already dismissed his passive probability manipulation and argued regarding the abilities he has in canon and the fighting style he uses in DBH.

If you want CRTs, go look at the three pages that the canon Grand Priest is linked in, that this Grand Priest inherited. This thread is barely related to DBH-specific abilities that he has.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah no. GP canon has no CRTs that actually matter. And if all the arguments being made for GP are based on his cano incarnation then I know you're wanking because he hasn't done a darned thing since he debuted, granted it was also said that DBS danmaku > Touhou's so that was always there.

 

[PaChi2]

Didn't Lugia Use an event only move in the Anime?

Which one.

Not that it matters, Event!Darkrai is just a promotional pokémon given as a gift because of the 10th movie.

Event!Pokémon contradict every single piece of lore behind legendaries and unique pokémon.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Hurricane is the move

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Yeah no. GP canon has no CRTs that actually matter. And if all the arguments being made for GP are based on his cano incarnation then I know you're wanking because he hasn't done a darned thing since he debuted, granted it was also said that DBS danmaku > Touhou's so that was always there.

It's like you didn't even look, considering the 6th thread with him tagged is a revision thread for immortality and there is a general revision thread for him and Whis on the first page.

The Grand Priest has also displayed numerous hax in canon very casually, which is depicted in the anime itself and used for his canon profile.

To add further, DBH is based on Anime Dragon Ball and bases its characters on their anime iterations, typically. DBH Grand Priest would inherit everything from his Anime counterpart.

I also don't know why you think 'Danmaku' or 'Touhou' is relevant here, do you think Darkrai's Danmaku is anywhere near Touhou either? If you want evidence for how Ultra Instinct handles danmaku, look no further than UIS Goku dodging and outdoing Kefla's Danmaku without access to flight, his stamina only handling one more attack and Kefla's lasers being stated to be capable of killing him in one blow.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No, I said none that matter. Immortality doesn't matter.

None of which are actually combat applicable besides the flight power null? For example, his reality warping comes from...changing the World of Void's color. Impressive. Surely, he's got ki that rivals the Infinity Gauntlet.

Ofc I don't think Darkrai's Danmaku is Touhou level. I stated that because every DB fan acts like Ultra Instinct is "I can't get hit at all so eff you" when that's blatantly untrue. And I've seen the Kefla fight quite a handful of times. Not a good example given she skins him twice, the immediate lasers are coming one at a time, Darkrai being >>>>> her in every category (versatility, power, hax, intelligence, mobility, etc.), and using the word of ROSHI, for her being capable of one-shotting him is silly at best, given how much they're above him and how he can't sense god ki, something Goku absorbed into base.