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Hero Killer vs God Killer

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Epiccheev said:
Skill rant incoming.

Eh, seems very subjective/personal for me. Skill feats as a whole depend almost entirely on your perception of what seems cooler than objectively being better. Like Yasuo's feat with the wind can range from people being like "Wow it's just like Sasaki tricking space itself with sheer precision and making 2 slashes at the same time! Replicating magic wich is higher D with skill alone makes his skill divine!" to "hah, he creates a tornado? Zoro did it way better, what a fodder".

Only way to objectively compare skill feats between characters is if both have the same feat but one does in grander scale "like a character shot a crow from 200 meters away, the other did it from 2 kilometers" or if both are around the same level of power and decide to have a direct fight using the same martial arts for testing their profficiency in it specifically. Even if there were an objective skill ranking for each character the entire thing gets very weird if we start including a cast of diverse characters with very different levels of power, physiologies, weakness and strengths, fighting styles and esoteric abilities in a objective ladder, like is it a minor difference, is it a skill stomp worthy advantage? how would their powers interact with each other on top of their martial arts and fighting styles,etc. If there was a character who was like the Yujiro/Cell of the verse who is just the incarnation of all technique in the verse composite and can do everything anyone in the verse can on top of their own abilities then we'd have a definite answer for no.1, but still leaves the rest somewhat vague.
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Understandable, in most cases it is kinda subjective but speaking strictly from a standpoint of comparing the skill of LoL characters, the writers are very good at making it abundantly clear who is more skilled than who.

Refer to the story excerpt I posted above as clarification
 
Epiccheev said:
If there was a character who was like the Yujiro/Cell of the verse who is just the incarnation of all technique in the verse composite and can do everything anyone in the verse can on top of their own abilities then we'd have a definite answer for no.1, but still leaves the rest somewhat vague.
Click to expand...
There is actually, his name is Jax and he is canonically the single most skilled character in the verse for that exact reason
 
Epiccheev said:
But yeah, Aatrox is DEFINITELY skilled enough to land at least land a strike on Garou, and with his hax it's all he needs.
Aatrox FRA
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What hax? The conceptual stuff only applies to the Celestials of Runeterra and the possesion only works if one directly wields the blade 😶
 
azontr said:
That summarizes like ever LoL profile.
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I would say Zaun and Piltover are up to date but even they still have their alt universe incarnations as keys rather than different profiles and they havent gotten the magic mechanics update yet...

The struggles of updating a huge and complex mostly written verse :/
 
Recon1511 said:
What hax? The conceptual stuff only applies to the Celestials of Runeterra and the possesion only works if one directly wields the blade 😶
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Oh yeah, thats another thing, would it be in character for Garou to try to disarm Aatrox by stealing his weapon? Since his comprehension wouldnt work on stuff like his Darkin magic and the Celestial seal keeping him contained, he likely wouldnt know that it would possess him if he stole the sword
 
When it comes to weapon users garou either blocks it with a nonlethal area and lands a decisive blow (like letting Royal Ripper piece him as he decapitated him with WICF and Spring mustachio pierce through his hand, trapping the blade and then knocking him out with a punch) or just keep it at bay with WSRSF deflection (like he did vs metal bat and his first fight against royal ripper and against stinger and gun users.). Only time he ever "wielded" a weapon in the series was when he used a hero's sickle as a tool to cut a piece of string out of another hero's weapon and then immediately discarded it. That and uh... throwing peebles he found on the ground.

So, at best it stabs him in the hand and he tries to keep the blade locked.

If i had to put it in a more standardized method
1.Opponent too fast/tricky: Tries to manage with WRSF and when he starts getting pressured trade a stab in a convenient place for a decisive blow.
2.Opponent on his level: Manages the fight with WSRSF redirection while waiting for an opening.
3.Opponent he stomps: Does the grab blade between fingers mid swing trick and then breaks the blade.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Oh yeah, thats another thing, would it be in character for Garou to try to disarm Aatrox by stealing his weapon? Since his comprehension wouldnt work on stuff like his Darkin magic and the Celestial seal keeping him contained, he likely wouldnt know that it would possess him if he stole the sword
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Not sure actually but Epiccheev is the one closest to the actual response here
 
Epiccheev said:
When it comes to weapon users garou either blocks it with a nonlethal area and lands a decisive blow (like letting Royal Ripper piece him as he decapitated him with WICF and Spring mustachio pierce through his hand, trapping the blade and then knocking him out with a punch) or just keep it at bay with WSRSF deflection (like he did vs metal bat and his first fight against royal ripper and against stinger and gun users.). Only time he ever "wielded" a weapon in the series was when he used a hero's sickle as a tool to cut a piece of string out of another hero's weapon and then immediately discarded it. That and uh... throwing peebles he found on the ground.

So, at best it stabs him in the hand and he tries to keep the blade locked.

If i had to put it in a more standardized method
1.Opponent too fast/tricky: Tries to manage with WRSF and when he starts getting pressured trade a stab in a convenient place for a decisive blow.
2.Opponent on his level: Manages the fight with WSRSF redirection while waiting for an opening.
3.Opponent he stomps: Does the grab blade between fingers mid swing trick and then breaks the blade.
Click to expand...
That might be a bit tricky for Garou to pull off, Aatrox's blade is massive

Also the blade can survive the universe being destroyed (technically it has Tier 1 durability but that CRT hasnt been accepted yet) so breaking it isnt a viable option either
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Why are Garou matches generally a complete shitstorm
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2 pages of discussion just to explain people baseline was in space cosmic radiation isn't enough to resist his radiation hax, 2 more pages to decide if other abilities let the other character survive it, then god forbid a discussion to decide wich of the 2 is more skilled.
 
Garou never fought a wielder of massive weapons before. In fact, most weapon users he fought are A-class early on during his human/ weakened pre-half monster form. after he kills RR he never fights weapon users again. Even Flashy Flash who usually wields a sword is disarmed when they fight in his early monster form, so there isn't much to go from on how he'd do it in character as his greatest growth as martial artist happens after he goes "sleeping monster" during the surface. My guess is the classic deflect with WSRSF while trying to break it with RASRF while jumping around in portals. If it's too much of a problem he likely goes GRB and tries some cosmic junk.
 
Epiccheev said:
Garou never fought a wielder of massive weapons before. In fact, most weapon users he fought are A-class early on during his human/ weakened pre-half monster form. after he kills RR he never fights weapon users again. Even Flashy Flash who usually wields a sword is disarmed when they fight in his early monster form, so there isn't much to go from on how he'd do it in character as his greatest growth as martial artist happens after he goes "sleeping monster" during the surface. My guess is the classic deflect with WSRSF while trying to break it with RASRF while jumping around in portals. If it's too much of a problem he likely goes GRB and tries some cosmic junk.
Click to expand...
What would he do when he figures out he cant break it?

And Aatrox can counter portal jumping with Infernal Chains, its one of his only thought-based hax in that he basically just spawns chains directly on the opponent that restrains them for a few seconds
 
He was quite trollish on his fight against Saitama. Depending on how big Aatrox is he might try to BFR (the portals aren't very big) or keep trying to teleport his nuclear fission/gravity knuckle punches on him from outside his range. if it doesn't work then he tries Gamma Ray Burst wich would probably lead to either planet busting or the place they are fighting on becoming a radioactive wasteland. If it doesn't work he does his best to not die until he can surpass Aatrox in stats with his RE.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
What would he do when he figures out he cant break it?

And Aatrox can counter portal jumping with Infernal Chains, its one of his only thought-based hax in that he basically just spawns chains directly on the opponent that restrains them for a few seconds
Click to expand...
Deflect the attack with WSRF which can also result in Aatrox's host stabbing themselves with the redirected attack
 
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page_30.png

(Panel in question)
 
I get the feeling that when the Databook for this part comes out there will be some exaggerated description of his abilities and how his martial arts work
 
Epiccheev said:
He was quite trollish on his fight against Saitama. Depending on how big Aatrox is he might try to BFR (the portals aren't very big) or keep trying to teleport his nuclear fission/gravity knuckle punches on him from outside his range. if it doesn't work then he tries Gamma Ray Burst wich would probably lead to either planet busting or the place they are fighting on becoming a radioactive wasteland. If it doesn't work he does his best to not die until he can surpass Aatrox in stats with his RE.
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Aatrox at his peak (what is being used here) is bare minimum several hundred meters tall, and even his weaker incarnations are building-sized

BFR wouldnt work due to a mix of Aatrox's travel speed (MHS+) and interstellar range

Planet busting wouldnt work as Aatrox isnt even alive by definition and he doesnt need oxygen
 
Greatsage13th said:
He has not shown that before and besides that, doing that requires him to overpower the wielder's grip on the sword to that.
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No? WSRF is a defensive martial art precisely made so the user can redirect attacks made by stronger opponents, the most clear example of this is Garou redirecting Pumped Up Metal Bat swings even though the latter was more than able to incapacitate him with one hit. And the AP difference won't last long (or rather it won't last at all) considering Garou can inmediatly copy the strength of enemies vastly stronger than him as shown when he copied Saitama's Serious Punch with his Mode Saitama the moment he threw it.
 
Epiccheev said:
2 pages of discussion just to explain people baseline was in space cosmic radiation isn't enough to resist his radiation hax, 2 more pages to decide if other abilities let the other character survive it, then god forbid a discussion to decide wich of the 2 is more skilled.
Click to expand...
.... come again?
 
Epiccheev said:
But yeah, Aatrox is DEFINITELY skilled enough to land at least land a strike on Garou, and with his hax it's all he needs.
Aatrox FRA
Click to expand...
do you still vote Aatrox knowing the conceptual hax doesn't work outside of celestials and the possesion only happens if Garou wields the blade or?
 
Recon1511 said:
No? WSRF is a defensive martial art precisely made so the user can redirect attacks made by stronger opponents, the most clear example of this is Garou redirecting Pumped Up Metal Bat swings even though the latter was more than able to incapacitate him with one hit.
Click to expand...
Wasnt doing that against Metal Bat hurting him in the process though?
Recon1511 said:
And the AP difference won't last long (or rather it won't last at all) considering Garou can inmediatly copy the strength of enemies vastly greater than him as shown when he copied Saitama's Serious Punch with his Mode Saitama with just a glance.
Click to expand...
I thought it wa established that Garou wouldnt be able to copy Aatrox's stuff due to him being magic-based
 
I was under the impression Aatrox was like 10 meters at best.
Then his sword alone (assuming it scales from the image, and he isn't wielding a toothpick) is likely larger than any portal Garou has been shown making.
Infernal chains can likely be countered by Massively superior LS if he's on the ground. If he's caught while flying he probably tries to make a black hole to destroy them or fire off a GRB wich spawns from himself. But would probably give Aatrox enough time to hit him with a swing.
NGL but wich such a size difference it's hard to imagine a proper skill/martial arts fight since Aatrox is colossal. The size and regen also makes it really hard for Garou to put him down. (even without the immortalities)
 
What's stopping Garou from deflecting and attacking with 2x the power + pressure points to stop Aatrox from moving, then pummel him with dura neg attacks?
 
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