Here’s a Blast From the Past

[BluudyManikin777]

Not sure

i’m convinced it’s not a stomp, I just don’t know who’s winning

Well, there was an argument for Simon

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I think Simon would probably take this since i think Zeno wouldn't immediately erase SGGL since it looks pretty cool in his perspective (Unless he is already annoyed and wants to erase the whole thing) and since Simon has Batman's ace weapon, which is prep time for like 30 seconds and has knowledge on Zeno that he could essentially wipe him down in a mere instant then Im sure he will oof Zeno as fast as he can once the match starts.

This one

 

[ElixirBlue]

Oh then Simon FRA

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

How does simon's durability negation work?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

How does simon's durability negation work?

His Mega Vortex Maelstrom Cannon, and fires a large number of beams, which alters the probability of hitting the opponent, in any point in time

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

His Mega Vortex Maelstrom Cannon, and fires a large number of beams, which alters the probability of hitting the opponent, in any point in time

Um, but that other guy said that wouldn't work because zeno is 2-C in every other point in time. And the durability negation you mentioned was used against sggl not by sggl.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Um, but that other guy said that wouldn't work because zeno is 2-C in every other point in time. And the durability negation you mentioned was used against sggl not by sggl.

The point was that SGGL could literally do the same thing. This level of probability manipulation is used throughout the last 2 episodes

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The point was that SGGL could literally do the same thing. This level of probability manipulation is used throughout the last 2 episodes

Can THIS version of simon actually do this? And does he do it a lot in character, also tell me how much does simon know about zeno, like what information is he given before the fight?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Can THIS version of simon actually do this? And does he do it a lot in character, also tell me how much does simon know about zeno, like what information is he given before the fight?

Yes, this version of Simon can do this (which is the only version of himself that actually did do this). Simon will resort to this attack, as long as he knows it's the only way to do anything to an opponent, which, in this case, he knows it's the only attack he can do. He's been given knowledge about Zen'ō's capabilities, and has been given 30 seconds to prepare. What I had in mind with these rules, is that Simon would need to know this is the only attack that can do anything, as he won't use it, unless he knows he needs to use it. And he would need at most 30 seconds to prepare this for it to work, because Zen'ō could erase someone incredibly quick. But as was argued before, Simon is more likely to attack, before Zen'ō can

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yes, this version of Simon can do this (which is the only version of himself that actually did do this). Simon will resort to this attack, as long as he knows it's the only way to do anything to an opponent, which, in this case, he knows it's the only attack he can do. He's been given knowledge about Zen'ō's capabilities, and has been given 30 seconds to prepare. What I had in mind with these rules, is that Simon would need to know this is the only attack that can do anything, as he won't use it, unless he knows he needs to use it. And he would need at most 30 seconds to prepare this for it to work, because Zen'ō could erase someone incredibly quick. But as was argued before, Simon is more likely to attack, before Zen'ō can

Ok so simon has two techniques which durability negate, the mmvc and the other probability manipulation one right? That guy said the mmvc won't work but you argue that the probability one would. So I wanna know if simon knows that the mmvc would work or not because if he doesn't and he starts with it then he would lose. That's basically my point.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Ok so simon has two techniques which durability negate, the mmvc and the other probability manipulation one right? That guy said the mmvc won't work but you argue that the probability one would. So I wanna know if simon knows that the mmvc would work or not because if he doesn't and he starts with it then he would lose. That's basically my point.

MVMC uses both Probability Manipulation and Durability Negation, on top of traveling throughout time. He knows it will work, because he was given knowledge on how Zen’ō’s abilities work, on top of being given enough time for an explanation on how this attack works. Lordgenome knows it fires probability fluctuating bullets (he was the previous owner of SGGL, and was called Cathedral Lazengann). When the match starts, Simon knows that he will have to use it, if he wants to win. And the MVMC will work, I literally gave all the arguments explaining exactly how it has the abilities, his arguments have been debunked already

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

MVMC uses both Probability Manipulation and Durability Negation, on top of traveling throughout time. He knows it will work, because he was given knowledge on how Zen’ō’s abilities work, on top of being given enough time for an explanation on how this attack works. Lordgenome knows it fires probability fluctuating bullets (he was the previous owner of SGGL, and was called Cathedral Lazengann). When the match starts, Simon knows that he will have to use it, if he wants to win. And the MVMC will work, I literally gave all the arguments explaining exactly how it has the abilities, his arguments have been debunked already

Ok one final question, how does the probability manipulation durability negate?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Ok one final question, how does the probability manipulation durability negate?

because the Ashtanga, who is far inferior to Simon, to the point where it could be one shot by him, was able to actually damage him very significantly

It’s durability can’t be lower than it’s AP, because the mecha is literally powered by the same Spiral Power that did a 3-A feat. Throughout the entire story, the AP has always depended on the level of Spiral Power the pilot has, same for its durability. Hell, even the first Ashtanga threw entire planets at SGGL, and did nothing, like at all. The argument that a planetoid can’t possibly hurt a 3-A, can’t be used, because Granzeboma threw 11D galaxies at another Tengen Toppa Gunmen, who is comparable to TTGL, which was stated by light novel 4, to have infinite Power running the thing. So, it really comes down to the thing that throws it. Why does this argument matter? Because the first Ashtanga attacked SGGL, and it did nothing, the second Ashtanga attacked SGGL, but with Probability Altering Missiles, and all of a sudden, it’s capable of damaging Simon? Idk, sounds like Durability Negation to me

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Ok I asked what is the mechanism that causes the furability negation to happen but this is still durability negation against only a 3-A and it didn't even kill him he was only hurt, it can probably still damage zeno but then zeno will just erase if he sees himself getting hurt.

 

[Chariot190]

Doesn't Simon have absolutely ridiculous reactive pl and even adaption?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Ok I asked what is the mechanism that causes the furability negation to happen but this is still durability negation against only a 3-A and it didn't even kill him he was only hurt, it can probably still damage zeno but then zeno will just erase if he sees himself getting hurt.

Durability Negation is literally "The ability that allows users to damage the target, regardless of its durability" it should work regardless, as long as the opponent doesn't have Invulnerability, or a certain type of existence that doesn't let the opponent interact with it, or causality manipulation, or probability negation or resistance, or acausality. The thing that causes the durability negation to happen is the Mega Vortex-Maelstrom Cannon's probability fluctuating bullets. To summarize; SGGL needs to manipulate probability in order for the attack to negate someone's durability. To get a good idea of SGGL's probability fluctuation bullet's size, these bullets are larger than Arc-Gurren Lagann, which is 5km tall (over 5x taller than the tallest building irl). So, being smaller than these bullets, and becoming engulfed in them would mean absolute incineration

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Doesn't Simon have absolutely ridiculous reactive pl and even adaption?

yes, but it wouldn't be enough to reach 2-C, plus Zen'ō negates durability with existence erasure. Simon could also absorb energy if he wanted to (albeit, the energy has to take physical form first)

 

[Chariot190]

yes, but it wouldn't be enough to reach 2-C, plus Zen'ō negates durability with existence erasure. Simon could also absorb energy if he wanted to (albeit, the energy has to take physical form first)

Wasn't it enough to litterally do exactly that though? Like in story?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Wasn't it enough to litterally do exactly that though? Like in story?

No, he didn't absorb the Multiverse Labyrinth, but rather integrated it with his existence. That should really be fixed, it will be, in an upcoming revision. The most impressive absorption feat he has is going from 5-B to 3-A, absorbing something at least the size of a solar system

 

[Chariot190]

I meant literally adapting and his rpl and going from like 3-A to tier 1.
I'm not talking about absorption.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I meant literally adapting and his rpl and going from like 3-A to tier 1.
I'm not talking about absorption.

He’s never done that before wtf? He had to integrate the Multiverse with his existence to reach Tier 1. Where does going from 3-A to Tier 1 come from?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Durability Negation is literally "The ability that allows users to damage the target, regardless of its durability" it should work regardless, as long as the opponent doesn't have Invulnerability, or a certain type of existence that doesn't let the opponent interact with it, or causality manipulation, or probability negation or resistance, or acausality. The thing that causes the durability negation to happen is the Mega Vortex-Maelstrom Cannon's probability fluctuating bullets. To summarize; SGGL needs to manipulate probability in order for the attack to negate someone's durability. To get a good idea of SGGL's probability fluctuation bullet's size, these bullets are larger than Arc-Gurren Lagann, which is 5km tall (over 5x taller than the tallest building irl). So, being smaller than these bullets, and becoming engulfed in them would mean absolute incineration

So the canons probability manipulation makes it more likely to damage the opponent and that's how it durability negates I guess? Well I guess I can see this going like this, either zeno sees himself getting attacked and gets mad and moves his hand, or he gets hit and damaged then freakes out and moves his hand, or he gets hit and dies.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

So the canons probability manipulation makes it more likely to damage the opponent and that's how it durability negates I guess? Well I guess I can see this going like this, either zeno sees himself getting attacked and gets mad and moves his hand, or he gets hit and damaged then freakes out and moves his hand, or he gets hit and dies.

Well, I don’t think he’d see himself getting attacked, he'll just see it glowing, as SGGL will just look like this the entire time

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Well he's still kind of visible and zeno can still sense him although zeno might not think it's an attack if simon takes advantage of his innocence or if he thinks the move looks cool or something, but if he gets hit then he can just move his hand to win so it could go either way really. It might actually be inconclusive.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Well he's still kind of visible and zeno can still sense him although zeno might not think it's an attack if simon takes advantage of his innocence or if he thinks the move looks cool or something, but if he gets hit then he can just move his hand to win so it could go either way really. It might actually be inconclusive.

Well, if he gets engulfed in the bullet, he'd die

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Well, if he gets engulfed in the bullet, he'd die

Why? You said simon got hit by them but he didn't die. It should take multiple attacks to kill zeno.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Why? You said simon got hit by them but he didn't die. It should take multiple attacks to kill zeno.

He got hit by a probability altering missile, a solid thing, and only hit a small portion of his (SGGL's) body. While the probability fluctuating bullets are raw energy, which can vaporize something smaller than the beam (which you'd need the size of at least the largest mountain to not be engulfed)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

He got hit by a probability altering missile, a solid thing, and only hit a small portion of his (SGGL's) body. While the probability fluctuating bullets are raw energy, which can vaporize something smaller than the beam (which you'd need the size of at least the largest mountain to not be engulfed)

Do the energy bullets have the same durability negating effects as the missles?? If they do then Zeno only wins here if he gets pissed that he doesn't see anything because of all the lasers or realizes that it's an attack and decides to raise his hand. Also what's the starting distance?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Do the energy bullets have the same durability negating effects as the missles?? If they do then Zeno only wins here if he gets pissed that he doesn't see anything because of all the lasers or realizes that it's an attack and decides to raise his hand. Also what's the starting distance?

Yes, we've been saying that this entire thread. The probability fluctuating bullets, fired from the Mega Vortex Maelstrom Cannon, as from its name, alters the probability of landing hits, and negating durability. And well, there isn't a starting distance in the conditions

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So 4 km? How big is the projectile?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

So 4 km? How big is the projectile?

the projectile is at least 4 kilometers in width, about 4x wider than the largest building is in length

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So zeno can actually dodge it, he has to move it's radius which is 2 km and the beam has to move 4km to reach him. So I see this going like this, either zeno realizes he's gonna be attacked then he gets mad and moves his hand, or he sees the projectiles coming his way so he moves then realizes it's an attack and moves his hand or gets overwhelmed by the projectiles and dies. In the first and third scenario, if zeno realizes he can't dodge he might erase the attacks and everything along with it instead of dodging.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

So zeno can actually dodge it, he has to move it's radius which is 2 km and the beam has to move 4km to reach him. So I see this going like this, either zeno realizes he's gonna be attacked then he gets mad and moves his hand, or he sees the projectiles coming his way so he moves then realizes it's an attack and moves his hand or gets overwhelmed by the projectiles and dies. In the first and third scenario, if zeno realizes he can't dodge he might erase the attacks and everything along with it instead of dodging.

Even if the attack is dodged, it will continue its way to the same opponent, but in some other point in time

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Even if the attack is dodged, it will continue its way to the same opponent, but in some other point in time

Huh? How does that work? Well any other zeno in other points in time can just dodge it or erase it before getting hit, and if one zeno is hit, then what happens to the other zenos?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Huh? How does that work? Well any other zeno in other points in time can just dodge it or erase it before getting hit, and if one zeno is hit, then what happens to the other zenos?

It literally just fires probability fluctuating bullets which hit the enemy in every space-time and dimension. If a past version of him is hit, well, his present self would just cease to exist

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

It literally just fires probability fluctuating bullets which hit the enemy in every space-time and dimension. If a past version of him is hit, well, his present self would just cease to exist

Well I don't think any zeno's are gonna be hit if all they need is one movement to erase or even evade. And question, does this happen to all the zeno's simultaneously if it misses the first zeno?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Well I don't think any zeno's are gonna be hit if all they need is one movement to erase or even evade. And question, does this happen to all the zeno's simultaneously if it misses the first zeno?

I don't think they'd be ready or aware this is even happening, on top of that, these beams just come out of portals, they could just open right in front of his face. And the amount of shots that are fired are at least 10^68. So all of them surviving is most likely not happening. And yes, any later version of the one that gets hit just ceases to exist

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I don't think they'd be ready or aware this is even happening, on top of that, these beams just come out of portals, they could just open right in front of his face. And the amount of shots that are fired are at least 10^68. So all of them surviving is most likely not happening. And yes, any later version of the one that gets hit just ceases to exist

Ok cool so if zeno erases before the attacks begin he wins, if zeno erases during the attacks he wins, if zeno dodges he loses and there's a chance zeno doesn't attack so he loses. Zeno usually goes for erasure to solve all his problems so I don't think he'll dodge if he sees the attack coming. I think the most likely thing to happen is zeno sees sggl attack him so he reacts and erases everthing before anything goes wrong, what do you think?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Ok cool so if zeno erases before the attacks begin he wins, if zeno erases during the attacks he wins, if zeno dodges he loses and there's a chance zeno doesn't attack so he loses. Zeno usually goes for erasure to solve all his problems so I don't think he'll dodge if he sees the attack coming. I think the most likely thing to happen is zeno sees sggl attack him so he reacts and erases everthing before anything goes wrong, what do you think?

These bullets literally alter the probability of the attack landing

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

These bullets literally alter the probability of the attack landing

What are you talking about? Zeno's attack is omni durectional, if he intiates the erase then it has a 100% chance of landing.