Henry vs Necati (Battle for the 3rd strongest Non-Smurf H8-C)

[ShionAH]

Necati has his optional equipment SBA for everything else.

Stickman:
Elephant:
They share the 3rd place

 

[Psychomaster35]

Alright, so I checked the scan of the move you were talking about. It’s not instant, all it is doing is just pulling them into his thoughts, but it’s not instant. That would give Henry plenty of time to do Convert to turn Necati into his ally before he gets fully sent into Necati’s thoughts. Combined with the fact that this was only done once, I don’t see how Necati can really get past Henry’s retries.

 

[ShionAH]

Alright, so I checked the scan of the move you were talking about. It’s not instant, all it is doing is just pulling them into his thoughts, but it’s not instant

Henry really cannot escape it anyway.

That would give Henry plenty of time to do Convert to turn Necati into his ally before he gets fully sent into Necati’s thoughts

If he kills Necati then Necati will be an literal thought that Henry shouldnt be able to effect right?

. Combined with the fact that this was only done once, I don’t see how Necati can really get past Henry’s retries.

Necati has RW too so he can probably wish for Henry to be his ally or whatever he wants. How would Necatis resistance to anything time based here?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Henry really cannot escape it anyway.

Retries.

If he kills Necati then Necati will be an literal thought that Henry shouldnt be able to effect right?

Even in scenarios where Henry successfully kills his target, it would’ve still triggered a FAIL sequence if something important has been lost like him accidentally killing Ellie when trying to kill a guard with the knee.

Necati has RW too so he can probably wish for Henry to be his ally or whatever he wants.

Pretty sure this would count as incapacitation and therefore Henry would just retry the moment it happens. Is that supposed to be thought-based?

How would Necatis resistance to anything time based here?

Unless he’s got Acausality Type 1 (which he doesn’t), he can’t really remember what he did after Henry retries.

 

[ShionAH]

Retries.

Its an incap

Even in scenarios where Henry successfully kills his target, it would’ve still triggered a FAIL sequence if something important has been lost like him accidentally killing Ellie when trying to kill a guard with the knee.

How does that matter? He kills Necati with success. Necati uses his SR to incap

Pretty sure this would count as incapacitation and therefore Henry would just retry the moment it happens. Is that supposed to be thought-based?

Its talk based. “I want henry to be my ally” etc.

Unless he’s got Acausality Type 1 (which he doesn’t), he can’t really remember what he did after Henry retries.

He is not effected by time so Idk

 

[Psychomaster35]

Its an incap

Which, as I said, he’s come back from before.

How does that matter? He kills Necati with success. Necati uses his SR to incap

...and Henry retries to an earlier point before he killed Necati so he can do another move.

Its talk based. “I want henry to be my ally” etc.

Has he ever done this before?

 

[ShionAH]

Which, as I said, he’s come back from before.

...and Henry retries to an earlier point before he killed Necati so he can do another move.

Why does Henry retry after incap? He didnt die? He is just a thought now. Has he ever shown to come back from being turned into a though?

Has he ever done this before?

Done what? Its rw? He can do anything he wants.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Why does Henry retry after incap? He didnt die? He is just a thought now. Has he ever shown to come back from being turned into a though?

He’s come back from being completely erased from his universe being destroyed, turned into a leaf, frozen, and on some occasions, the retry triggers just before disaster strikes for him. He’s able to retry just as long as he hasn’t met his goal yet, which is to defeat Necati for good. And if Henry dies just as he kills Necati, or he kills Necati but realizes he can’t affect him now that he’s a thought, he will retry so he can try another method of defeating him. And again, being placed into Necati’s thoughts isn’t instant, it literally took them seconds to be pulled into the thought clouds, and Henry can do his Convert much faster than that.

Done what? Its rw? He can do anything he wants.

But has he really used it to turn people into his allies?

 

[ShionAH]

He’s come back from being completely erased from his universe being destroyed, turned into a leaf, frozen, and on some occasions, the retry triggers just before disaster strikes for him. He’s able to retry just as long as he hasn’t met his goal yet, which is to defeat Necati for good. And if Henry dies just as he kills Necati, or he kills Necati but realizes he can’t affect him now that he’s a thought, he will retry so he can try another method of defeating him. And again, being placed into Necati’s thoughts isn’t instant, it literally took them seconds to be pulled into the thought clouds, and Henry can do his Convert much faster than that.

None of that proves that Henry can escape the thought. It would literally make him non-existant but not kill him.

But has he really used it to turn people into his allies?

No but he can. Plus doesnt henry have a limit? He wont have enough retrys to try every possible thing.

 

[Psychomaster35]

None of that proves that Henry can escape the thought. It would literally make him non-existant but not kill him.

And as I said, this counts as incapacitation, something Henry has come back from before. Mind you, he had his soul shattered yet he still came back through retries.

No but he can. Plus doesnt henry have a limit? He wont have enough retrys to try every possible thing.

He hasn't really shown to have a limit with his retries. He is prone to doing every single option necessary to achieve what he needs.

 

[ShionAH]

And as I said, this counts as incapacitation, something Henry has come back from before. Mind you, he had his soul shattered yet he still came back through retries.

Henry never came back from SR. End

He hasn't really shown to have a limit with his retries. He is prone to doing every single option necessary to achieve what he needs.

I looked at other henry threads and some people said there was a limit

 

[DivineAura44]

Is Convert in character for Henry?

 

[ShionAH]

Is Convert in character for Henry?

He only did it once to a random security

 

[Psychomaster35]

Henry never came back from SR. End

And retries have activated before disaster struck for Henry + SR is not instant. End.

I looked at other henry threads and some people said there was a limit

There's seemingly not. The only time he really reaches his limit is if he has achieved his goal.

Is Convert in character for Henry?

The stuff Henry does is completely random, although if he knows one option doesn't work after getting a FAIL message, he tries another option, so he eventually tries that.

 

[ShionAH]

And retries have activated before disaster struck for Henry + SR is not instant. End.

Henry is also pretty unlucky sometimes while Necati is always lucky making his odds even less. Henrys retry wont start because he is not dead and not gonna be hurt he will just have his state changed

There's seemingly not. The only time he really reaches his limit is if he has achieved his goal.

Weird. They even showed a scan-

The stuff Henry does is completely random, although if he knows one option doesn't work after getting a FAIL message, he tries another option, so he eventually tries that.

But does he even have all the options at any point??

 

[Psychomaster35]

Henry is also pretty unlucky sometimes while Necati is always lucky making his odds even less. Henrys retry wont start because he is not dead and not gonna be hurt he will just have his state changed

Except I keep telling you that retries have activated for Henry even if he wasn't dead.

Getting frozen with his own ice spell? Came back from it.

Sent to maximum security where he's frozen up? Came back from it.

Stunned himself with his own boomerang? Came back from it.

Missing his shot but nothing happens to Henry? Still able to retry.

I think you get the idea here.

But does he even have all the options at any point??

All of the options not showing at once is game mechanics, so we can assume he can do everything he's shown to do.

 

[ShionAH]

Except I keep telling you that retries have activated for Henry even if he wasn't dead.

Getting frozen with his own ice spell? Came back from it.

Sent to maximum security where he's frozen up? Came back from it.

Stunned himself with his own boomerang? Came back from it.

Missing his shot but nothing happens to Henry? Still able to retry.

I think you get the idea here.

Can henry retry as a non existent though thats what I am asking probably not so. Another question convert does make then ally but it doesnt seem like an actual mind hax so it wont be an instant win right?

All of the options not showing at once is game mechanics, so we can assume he can do everything he's shown to do.

Whats stopping RW then? Necati should be able to use it to make himself win and its in character for him to use it in danger

 

[DivineAura44]

So Henry virtually has hundreds of options to cycle through (lowball) and will eventually reach Convert? Just wanna make that clear. I'm not here to debate on anything tbh.

 

[ShionAH]

So Henry virtually has hundreds of options to cycle through (lowball) and will eventually reach Convert? Just wanna make that clear. I'm not here to debate on anything tbh.

Thats what they are claiming. I wanna know how necatis complete lack of time would work here. Would he remember or would he literally not change

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Can henry retry as a non existent though thats what I am asking probably not so. Another question convert does make then ally but it doesnt seem like an actual mind hax so it wont be an instant win right?

Whats stopping RW then? Necati should be able to use it to make himself win and its in character for him to use it in danger

Henry's retrying seems to be within the scope you're thinking of. Henry can retry a scenario after being dismissed from reality for cheating at it, after accidentally crashing reality using MissingNo, after crashing reality and corrupting its stability using the CorrupTick, after going to a 1D state of being, after becoming stranded in an empty world, after being affected by Ultimate Freeze which keeps time paused, and after the scratched G.A.B.E.N. disk accidentally crashed reality. (My usage of the term "crash" is in the sense of sudden technological failure, taking into account that "reality" is canonically a video game in the Henry Stickmin Collection.) While not explicitly demonstrating that Henry could retry a scenario after turning into someone's thoughts, he should be capable of this based on the proven scope of his retrying.

Convert is listed as morality manipulation on Henry's profile, and morality manipulation is a subset of mind manipulation. The way Convert functions is, Henry says "wololo" while waving his hands, and then the target becomes someone who's on his team instead of against him.

"RW" stands for "reality warping" right? I'll assume so. It seems those special abilities that Necati has aren't of high enough scope to defeat Henry without Henry having the opportunity to retry. However, if Necati can still be alive and himself as Henry's thoughts despite Henry having defeated him, then there doesn't seem to be a way for Henry to win either.

 

[ShionAH]

However, if Necati can still be alive and himself as Henry's thoughts despite Henry having defeated him, then there doesn't seem to be a way for Henry to win either.

Incon then?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Incon then?

I think so.

 

[ShionAH]

3rd place shared beetween henry and necati

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Not really, Henry have quite literally infinite opportunities to try things that can incap or give the win in different ways, while Necati only real "win con" is something that take some time to work (as mentioned by Psycho) and isn't really in character since it was done only once through the series, and which furthermore wouldn't actually put Henry permanently down and instead just activate his retries.

I don't see Necati winning or reaching an inco, instead I see Henry eventually win with his infinite retries so I vote for him.

 

[ShionAH]

Not really, Henry have quite literally infinite opportunities to try things that can incap or give the win in different ways, while Necati only real "win con" is something that take some time to work (as mentioned by Psycho) and isn't really in character since it was done only once through the series, and which furthermore wouldn't actually put Henry permanently down and instead just activate his retries.

I don't see Necati winning or reaching an inco, instead I see Henry eventually win with his infinite retries so I vote for him.

If Henrys retry works even with SR then its sadly a stomp

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

If Henrys retry works even with SR then its sadly a stomp

Indeed, I just said that I vote for Henry to make clear how I believe he definitely win, but this certainly shouldn't be on the profiles at all.

 

[ShionAH]

Are we sure henry doesnt have a limit? I looked at other threads and saw some people talk about a limit

 

[ShionAH]

Indeed, I just said that I vote for Henry to make clear how I believe he definitely win, but this certainly shouldn't be on the profiles at all.

Wait since speed is not equal in the tournament doesnt Necati blitz and stomp?

 

[ShionAH]

Wait nvm speed is =

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Wait since speed is not equal in the tournament doesnt Necati blitz and stomp?

The problem with that is that even if Henry opponent was thousands of times faster, as long it don't have a way to permanently put him down the infinite retries would continue, so at worst they would get inside an infinite loop until there appear a way for Henry to win/incap.

Also, yes, speed in equalized by default and they only share a place if a chracter is able to win with speed unequal, which isn't the case here.

 

[ShionAH]

The problem with that is that even if Henry opponent was thousands of times faster, as long it don't have a way to permanently put him down the infinite retries would continue, so at worst they would get inside an infinite loop until there appear a way for Henry to win/incap.

Also, yes, speed in equalized by default and they only share a place if a chracter is able to win with speed unequal, which isn't the case here.

Actually wrong. If Necati blitz he will kill Henry over and over again which by SBA means Necati wins. So yeah speed becomes unequalized and Necati wins with speed

 

[ShionAH]

Theres also the fact that Necati can actually harm Henry when Henry cannot even react to Necati giving him the win.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

I'm leaning towards Necati's AE advantage here since while Henry has a chance to beat him, if he opens with AP and kills him, he's ****** due to the gap in intractability. Voting for the elephant.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I'm leaning towards Necati's AE advantage here since while Henry has a chance to beat him, if he opens with AP and kills him, he's ****** due to the gap in intractability. Voting for the elephant.

Your reason doesn't address how Necati could circumvent Henry's retrying to defeat him.

 

[ShionAH]

Your reason doesn't address how Necati could circumvent Henry's retrying to defeat him.

RW works

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

RW works

The potential applicabilities and limitations of reality warping can be very wide-ranging, so it would help if you explain exactly how it would work. The last time I checked Necati's profile, I didn't get the impression that he could defeat a character who can retry a scenario the way Henry can.

 

[ShionAH]

The potential applicabilities and limitations of reality warping can be very wide-ranging, so it would help if you explain exactly how it would work. The last time I checked Necati's profile, I didn't get the impression that he could defeat a character who can retry a scenario the way Henry can.

Ita wish granting. It does whatever the user wants to do by warping reality. It teleported all the food in the world and changed the entire reality to how it was like yesterdau

 

[Psychomaster35]

Ita wish granting. It does whatever the user wants to do by warping reality. It teleported all the food in the world and changed the entire reality to how it was like yesterdau

And you know what else Henry came back from? The Corruptick/MissingNo distorting all of reality and destroying his universe. Even then, that doesn’t sound like it’s in-character for him to do.

 

[ShionAH]

And you know what else Henry came back from? The Corruptick/MissingNo distorting all of reality and destroying his universe

That has nothing to do with this. Necati wont use it to do AP

. Even then, that doesn’t sound like it’s in-character for him to do.

Why wont he? He used it the second he was in danger and right now he is in a literal fight with someone who has a lot of equipment, plus no one is answering about how Necatis time resistance will work here

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Ita wish granting. It does whatever the user wants to do by warping reality. It teleported all the food in the world and changed the entire reality to how it was like yesterdau

I'm iffy about that working, since, like I showed in a previous message, Henry was able to retry scenarios after being defeated by reality warping abilities. Either way, Necati would need to know that Henry can retry scenarios in order to wish that Henry couldn't do that. That's not easy to discover. Henry rarely talks, and characters don't keep their memories from a failed scenario that Henry retried. Necati would need to have and use an ability like clairvoyance to discover that. Necati isn't even very strategic so I don't suspect that he would be using his abilities in crafty ways.