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bumping this
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Hax Layer Evaluation Thread
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
- Start date
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- Tags
- hax
- 892
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A blog to explain the layer haxes of Kamen Rider Zi-O's character has been made.
Kamen Rider Zi-O Haxes and Resistance Explanation Blog
vsbattles.fandom.com
Megaraptor149
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Question:
If there a being (let's say this being Conceptual (Type 1) being) who can manipulate on Conceptual (Type 1).
If this would qualifiy for layered hax?
If there a being (let's say this being Conceptual (Type 1) being) who can manipulate on Conceptual (Type 1).
If this would qualifiy for layered hax?
Jozaysmith?
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If he is abstract on Concept type 1 level and still manipulate concepts on type 1 level?, that def doesn't mean anything its regular CM1
Layered hax isn't being better its using a power a character formely resist, if the said character resisted CM1 and another character used CM1 to defeat him then fine thats layered
Layered hax is like resistance negation although it wasn't negating resistance just bypassing it with a stronger and higher hax
Rikimarox2
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I'm planning to make a blog hax layers for a verse I'm making, but I need to understand something before I do that;
In the verse, it was shown that a higher realm/level dude can smash the ground with a lower level dude, with the lower level not being able to hax the higher one. There are also numerous feats showing how a technique from a higher level dude cannot be resisted unless you were of equal strength or higher (Strength in this case is not just physical strength, but a myriad of other things such as energy, soul, mind, etc...). There are also scans of how some dude resisted an ability of some guy, but after the latter grew stronger, he wasn't able to.
Now here comes the part I'm conflicted about; In the verse, there is this "Grand Dao" (Chinamen shenanigans), and the higher the percentage you comprehend of the grand dao, the more powerful you are. The thing is, it was stated that the difference between a person who comprehend 4.99% and a person who comprehended 4.999% of the grand dao is as big as the heaven and earth, where the latter can demolish the former (Hinting that the gap is as large as realms, if not larger). This is further shown where a person who cultivated 5% of the grand dao is so much unbelievably more powerful than a dude who only cultivated 4.999% that the former can effortlessly defeat the latter while only toying around and using a portion of their power (Even stated he was just toying with him, and stated that small percentage of difference is extremely great).
Would this be enough to assume that each 0.001% is enough for a layer, or nah?
If so, then I'll quote this later on when I make the blog and show the scans for it (Don't have the scans on me right now, need to pile them up)
In the verse, it was shown that a higher realm/level dude can smash the ground with a lower level dude, with the lower level not being able to hax the higher one. There are also numerous feats showing how a technique from a higher level dude cannot be resisted unless you were of equal strength or higher (Strength in this case is not just physical strength, but a myriad of other things such as energy, soul, mind, etc...). There are also scans of how some dude resisted an ability of some guy, but after the latter grew stronger, he wasn't able to.
Now here comes the part I'm conflicted about; In the verse, there is this "Grand Dao" (Chinamen shenanigans), and the higher the percentage you comprehend of the grand dao, the more powerful you are. The thing is, it was stated that the difference between a person who comprehend 4.99% and a person who comprehended 4.999% of the grand dao is as big as the heaven and earth, where the latter can demolish the former (Hinting that the gap is as large as realms, if not larger). This is further shown where a person who cultivated 5% of the grand dao is so much unbelievably more powerful than a dude who only cultivated 4.999% that the former can effortlessly defeat the latter while only toying around and using a portion of their power (Even stated he was just toying with him, and stated that small percentage of difference is extremely great).
Would this be enough to assume that each 0.001% is enough for a layer, or nah?
If so, then I'll quote this later on when I make the blog and show the scans for it (Don't have the scans on me right now, need to pile them up)
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Alright, back for a bit to evaluate the new stuff.
@SatellaTheWoE I see one layer hax for that since nothing shows Subaru resisting the hax that affected him in the first place.
@Nierre thank you, if the rinnegan does tie to amping one's genjutsu to being stronger than before then I can see the layered hax there working.
@Omazio2019 the several times thing would help for supporting evidence that the sister's time stop is stronger, the rest of the blog looks fine.
@Faa_Tzy the first one no unless they can channel the same power that affected countless souls into an individual which increases its potency as a result. Second one I think that's one of those "stronger fire resistance doesn't mean layered hax" type situation unless it's shown to be the same type of poison but grown stronger in potency.
@Arkenis if there's scans to show that his attacks are invisible to sorcerers then I can see it working.
@Rutæhh I guess it looks fine.
@Godernet your TSB resistance scans aren't loading but they can work for layered hax.
@Rikimarox2 I doubt it if we're just given a power difference for that. You'd need to have some correlation that 0.001% difference automatically means they're capable of haxing those slightly below them.
@SatellaTheWoE I see one layer hax for that since nothing shows Subaru resisting the hax that affected him in the first place.
@Nierre thank you, if the rinnegan does tie to amping one's genjutsu to being stronger than before then I can see the layered hax there working.
@Omazio2019 the several times thing would help for supporting evidence that the sister's time stop is stronger, the rest of the blog looks fine.
@Faa_Tzy the first one no unless they can channel the same power that affected countless souls into an individual which increases its potency as a result. Second one I think that's one of those "stronger fire resistance doesn't mean layered hax" type situation unless it's shown to be the same type of poison but grown stronger in potency.
@Arkenis if there's scans to show that his attacks are invisible to sorcerers then I can see it working.
@Rutæhh I guess it looks fine.
@Godernet your TSB resistance scans aren't loading but they can work for layered hax.
@Rikimarox2 I doubt it if we're just given a power difference for that. You'd need to have some correlation that 0.001% difference automatically means they're capable of haxing those slightly below them.
Rikimarox2
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I thought it would layers since in that level, it's all pretty much just using hax (It was stated that at this level it's all about preaching/using their daos (concepts and souls) to attack, ie one shot stuff, as it doesn't really increase physical strength), and considering that Grand Dao is just about comprehension of the 6th greatest thing in the entire verse to increase your comprehension, I thought it would be about layers.
Is what I mentioned not enough for a possibly? If what I clarified above isn't enough, I'll try to find other feats then.
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He resists madness manipulation type 3 (which works by affecting the cognition) and Daphne's left eye drove him mad with hunger anyways, this is also not his only showcase of resisting madness manipulation since he can also do so against sirius
Arkenis
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Mahoraga required adapting to them to see it. Mahoraga is a shikigami which is invisible
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@Rikimarox2 probably safer that we have some more explicit showings of the small gap leading to layered hax.
@SatellaTheWoE but where's the scan that Subaru resisted the ability that affected him prior? you need that for further layered hax.
@SatellaTheWoE but where's the scan that Subaru resisted the ability that affected him prior? you need that for further layered hax.
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If you are talking about his resistance to mm type 3 rhen it is on his profile
If you are talking about why the right eye should get a layer, then that is because Echidna said that in comparison to her right eye, the left eye is harmless. This would indicate that someone who the left eye would be harmless against, would still be threatened/affected by the right eye. Thus piercing another layer of resistance.
Echidna's statements about authorities is as valid as you can get in the verse and they are by far the most accurate due to her vast knowledge and experience on the witches and authorities
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Tsukuyomi (The sister) is cable of freezing her brother who resist the layer time stop from his fellow Time Jacker, in addition she's also freezing Woz the Singularity exist outside the concept of time who can cancel the layer Time manipulation.
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@SatellaTheWoE that's not what my point is, there's nothing about Subaru resisting the hax that affected him prior in your post to justify an additional layered hax. You've shown 1 layer at best.
@Omazio2019 you already explained that, that didn't really address the "several times stronger" comment I made.
@Omazio2019 you already explained that, that didn't really address the "several times stronger" comment I made.
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Her brother (Swartz) is also a time jacker (higher class), he empower his fellow Time Jacker (lower class) the power of Time Jacker (Ora, Heure and Daiki Kaito) that help them freezing the Singularity who unaffected by Time Stop, in fact the Singularity have once resisted another Time Jacker named Keiji's time stop (he has no connection with Swartz) that why Tsukuyomi's (the sister) time stop is considered to be several time greater than Time Jacker.
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You're not addressing my comment, if you're just gonna repeat the same comments from the blog I already commented on I'm gonna delete your posts for derailing for an already concluded proposal.
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Oh yeah, I should bring up this guy: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Seiya_Ryuuguuin
So in the series, at the home stretch of the Gaeabrande Arc, Seiya Ryuuguuin used Valkyrie's Gate against the world's Demon Lord. However, the Demon Lord busted out of Valkyrie's Gate, granting the Demon Lord resistances to Valkyrie's Gate and forcing Seiya to use a literal additional layer called "Valkyrie's Gate: Another."
This would qualify for layered BFR, layered Sealing, layered BFR, and layered Self-Destruct (as not even Ristarte's healing can handle the effects of Valkyrie's Gate: Another; in fact, all it did is allow Seiya's soul to continue to exist in his world, allowing him to return for the Exfolia Arc), all which would fall under ONE layer.
Also, he has some amounts of layers to his Information Analysis resistance (at least enough layers to make Ristarte go apeshit that she keeps getting called out for trying to read his stats; and he'd add more layers of resistance after that; enough to make his own resistance to Information Analysis attack Ristarte). I was only able to find a reaction video for the evidence of such.:
So in the series, at the home stretch of the Gaeabrande Arc, Seiya Ryuuguuin used Valkyrie's Gate against the world's Demon Lord. However, the Demon Lord busted out of Valkyrie's Gate, granting the Demon Lord resistances to Valkyrie's Gate and forcing Seiya to use a literal additional layer called "Valkyrie's Gate: Another."
This would qualify for layered BFR, layered Sealing, layered BFR, and layered Self-Destruct (as not even Ristarte's healing can handle the effects of Valkyrie's Gate: Another; in fact, all it did is allow Seiya's soul to continue to exist in his world, allowing him to return for the Exfolia Arc), all which would fall under ONE layer.
Also, he has some amounts of layers to his Information Analysis resistance (at least enough layers to make Ristarte go apeshit that she keeps getting called out for trying to read his stats; and he'd add more layers of resistance after that; enough to make his own resistance to Information Analysis attack Ristarte). I was only able to find a reaction video for the evidence of such.:
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EL_xWatcher1234x
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It look like he is just stacking those abilities above each other.
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I am unsure of what you mean here, can you elaborate?
Okay so i got it, what i am saying is it doesnt scale to Subaru but to Echidna who said that her right eye is threatening to someone who would find the left eye harmless
The layer goes like this
Subaru has base mm resistance<goes insane anyway due to left eye<Echidna talks about someone who will find the left eye harmless aka who can resist it<He will be affected by the right eye anyway
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Jozaysmith?
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Jozaysmith?
He/Him- 2,420
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Ability>resist>1 layer>resist>2 layers
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@Jozaysmith? The death hax stuff doesn't sound like death hax, the fact it's tied to attacking the spiritual body instead of actually inflicting death itself tells me otherwise.
Jozaysmith?
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How about the aura and the unique and others?, the aura inflict death atleast right?
Also your opinion on the other layers?
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Yeah, but then again that is Tensura hax wank at it's finest
Jozaysmith?
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what was a wank there?
If mod said its not death manip then let it rest jeez
If mod said its not death manip then let it rest jeez
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I'm saying I heavily disagree with how tensura is handled on the wiki RN and view it largely as wank.
Jozaysmith?
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Okay reaper man.
CodeCCLL
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I'm making a comment that should probably be deleted because it derails the thread, but still.
There are many people who say things like this, but almost no one creates a thread about the issues they mention. If you really want to clean up things that you think are wank, rest assured, you can do it easily. However, if, for example, instead of a simple thread about Mariabell's death manipulation being actually a soul manipulation that only kills the spiritual body, you create a thread about major hax downgrades that directly affect all god tiers (without has enough information about verse mechanisms, concepts, terms) , you will either waste your time unnecessarily to get what you want, or you won't get what you want. (I certainly don't encourage anyone to make upgrades or downgrades that I would like to make but can't because I don't have time)
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Trolls should not be taken seriously.
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I didn't- and still don't- care enough to go through the long process of arguing every little thing of hax about a verse I stay away from in the first place because I don't feel like arguing in entire copies of the Old Testament.
You guys have your way of scaling and making profiles, I have mine, and I'll grumble and not like it, but I don't have the motivation to take action.
Jozaysmith?
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It wasn't even that serious lol
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Talk about that in some other thread
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No
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@DaReaperMan stop derailing the thread, take this somewhere else.
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Jozaysmith?
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How about the other layers?
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Not really seeing fate hax layers for the gods or the new layers for power null.
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Err, Seiya stacked Valkyrie's Gate because the Demon Lord resisted Valkyrie's Gate. Considering the wiki's definition of layered hax is bypassing a resistance through any means, it's still valid layered hax.
EL_xWatcher1234x
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The hax should be superior to the previous one.
It like resisting a curse by single person but having a problem when number of curses increase.
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These were mostly accepted in separate threads over the past month or so but apparently I need to get them evaluated here as well:
1.
Mori Dan and Mujin Park have passive mind manipulation that makes people completely submit to them. Mujin Park also has mind manipulation where he commands people to do what he wishes, which was shown to work on characters not affected by their passive mind hax.
Mujins word based Mind Manipulation > Odins and Satans resistance > Mujins passive mind manipulation (1 Layer)
2.
Moris passive mind manipulation after he gained karma has been shown to affect Mujin and Tataghata inside of him, who has previously been completely unaffected by it.
Karma Moris passive mind manipulation > Mujin/Tataghatas resistance > Moris base passive mind manipulation (1 Layer)
3.
Since Mujins verbal mind manipulation has been consistently shown as superior to his passive MM, this relationship should stay the same after he gained karma as well. Seeing as how it upgraded Moris mind manipulation by 1 layer, Mujin should have at least a "Possibly 2 Layers" on his verbal mind manipulation with karma.
Mujins karma verbal mind manipulation > Mujins word based Mind Manipulation > Odins and Satans resistance > Mujins passive mind manipulation (2 Layers)
4.
Satan who could resist Diamond Sutras base ability to turn people into soul vapors was affected by 1800 agonies which clearly started to deconstruct him, although it's not enough to completely deconstruct him in one go. Besides being a supposedly stronger form of attack than 1800 agonies, it's heavily implied that if Satan were to not block the Empty Agonies from the bell, he would have gotten erased. Since the superiority of Empty Agonies is more so implied than shown, I think it's safe to only give it a "likely" rating.
Empty Agonies > 1800 Agonies > Satans resistance > Basic Diamond Sutra attacks (at least 1 Layer, likely 2 Layers)
5.
Satan was shown capable of copying recoiless attacks. Dean stated he can't copy recoiless attacks.
Edit: Dean can perfectly copy both martial arts and Borrowed Powers that he's only seen once
Satans Power Mimicry > Recoiless resistance to PM > Deans PM (1 Layer)
1.
Mori Dan and Mujin Park have passive mind manipulation that makes people completely submit to them. Mujin Park also has mind manipulation where he commands people to do what he wishes, which was shown to work on characters not affected by their passive mind hax.
Mujins word based Mind Manipulation > Odins and Satans resistance > Mujins passive mind manipulation (1 Layer)
2.
Moris passive mind manipulation after he gained karma has been shown to affect Mujin and Tataghata inside of him, who has previously been completely unaffected by it.
Karma Moris passive mind manipulation > Mujin/Tataghatas resistance > Moris base passive mind manipulation (1 Layer)
3.
Since Mujins verbal mind manipulation has been consistently shown as superior to his passive MM, this relationship should stay the same after he gained karma as well. Seeing as how it upgraded Moris mind manipulation by 1 layer, Mujin should have at least a "Possibly 2 Layers" on his verbal mind manipulation with karma.
Mujins karma verbal mind manipulation > Mujins word based Mind Manipulation > Odins and Satans resistance > Mujins passive mind manipulation (2 Layers)
4.
Satan who could resist Diamond Sutras base ability to turn people into soul vapors was affected by 1800 agonies which clearly started to deconstruct him, although it's not enough to completely deconstruct him in one go. Besides being a supposedly stronger form of attack than 1800 agonies, it's heavily implied that if Satan were to not block the Empty Agonies from the bell, he would have gotten erased. Since the superiority of Empty Agonies is more so implied than shown, I think it's safe to only give it a "likely" rating.
Empty Agonies > 1800 Agonies > Satans resistance > Basic Diamond Sutra attacks (at least 1 Layer, likely 2 Layers)
5.
Satan was shown capable of copying recoiless attacks. Dean stated he can't copy recoiless attacks.
Edit: Dean can perfectly copy both martial arts and Borrowed Powers that he's only seen once
Satans Power Mimicry > Recoiless resistance to PM > Deans PM (1 Layer)
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Jozaysmith?
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You should show that dean is extremely capable of copying attacks first
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