Han Jee-Han vs Fugil Arcadia

[Ionliosite]

Fugil Arcadia vs Han Jee-Han
* Over Limit Ouroboros and Divine Tree Arc will be used
* Speed equal
* SBA
Who wins and why?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Will go through this tomorrow, but from what I'm seeing at a glance there's little he can do about Han whipping out a ten billion speed amp.

 

[Ionliosite]

Except like, using his law hax so said amp doesn't happen to begin with, or stopping time, or many other stuff listed on his profile.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

All that sounds like active stuff, and Han has passive 110% speed increase minimum and will start with a X20 on top of that, so he gets to do a lot of things.

Likewise, time stop is resisted.

But as I said, I'll go through his skills properly tomorrow.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So yeah, law manip is the only really useful skill he has, and not only is he slower on the trigger here, but he also can't info analyze Han due to him resisting, which means he wouldn't even know what abilities to nullify with law manipulation, and just making attacks besides raw force ones ineffective isn't enough to stop Han here.

But yeah, Han blitzes, info analysis and uses whichever ability Fugil doesn't resist.

 

[00potato]

Which one was the passive amp again? Even after reading the gamer I cannot remember even half the stuff this guy can do

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Which one was the passive amp again? Even after reading the gamer I cannot remember even half the stuff this guy can do

Most of his martial art skills. Cheon Bu's Footwork and such.

Obviously, they added up to 110% back in season 1 and his martial arts is millions of times better now, but we ain't getting no direct descriptions of the skills, so assuming more than before by an unknown amount.

 

[00potato]

Though Han didn’t start with Fentons against the Follower, so it ain’t definite that he would start with it, though Fugil probably wouldn’t know to negate that until he activates it and blitzes.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He went for it against the tree boss, and likewise tried to use it against the sand guy before that.

I mean, regardless, without info analysis Fugil has no way to know what to law manip away, so Han can just take him to his pocket dimension after law manipulation and yeet him regardless.

And, the profile only mentions law manipulation being used to null attacks, which is absolutely useless against Han speedamping.

 

[Ionliosite]

without info analysis Fugil has no way to know what to law manip away

1) Fugil has info analysis thanks to Arshalia
2) Fugil gets resistance to Pocket Reality Manip so that pocket dimension thing won't work.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

1 Han Jee-Han resists.
2 So does literally every being short of newborn monsters in The Gamer. Han can negate it, overpower it and overpower resistances to it.

 

[Duedate8898]

How does resistance to Pocket Reality Manip even work? What are they even resisting?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

How does resistance to Pocket Reality Manip even work? What are they even resisting?

Being teleported/spatially transported?

He'd need to actually resist that though, having pocket dimension manip alone isn't enough against that.

Plus, all the way back in episode 80 (I think) when the modern odds and ends guild came about, it was already made impossible to not be pulled in to/escape from pocket dimension, further done in season 2 with the great labyrinth and so on.

 

[Duedate8898]

That's BFR though not Pocket Reality Manipulation, at least that's what it should be right?

Edit: Or portal creation.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, abilities do overlap. Reality Warping is effectively every other ability.

 

[Duedate8898]

Oh I understand that so well, I just thought it weird to have resistance to PR Manipulation is all.

 

[Ionliosite]

What even is the proof that the 110% speed thing is passive? And isn't 110% just 2x as fast?

 

[Ionliosite]

Ok, let's go trough every point again.

> But yeah, Han blitzes, info analysis and uses whichever ability Fugil doesn't resist.
Literally every ability that is on Han Jee-Han's profile is resisted by Fugil, so I don't know what is he supposed to do when his opponent resists everything.

> I mean, regardless, without info analysis Fugil has no way to know what to law manip away, so Han can just take him to his pocket dimension after law manipulation and yeet him regardless. And, the profile only mentions law manipulation being used to null attacks, which is absolutely useless against Han speedamping.

1- Fugil doesn't need to know what to law manip away, he'll just resists everything just like he did againts the Azure Division.
2- And the profile mentions many uses of Law Manip I don't even know where you get that it is only used to null stuff.

> So does literally every being short of newborn monsters in The Gamer. Han can negate it, overpower it and overpower resistances to it.
How does Han overpower Law Manip?

 

[00potato]

Han would probably know what Fugil resists and doesn’t because of his high level analysis, and if he goes for the resist via law manip, he won’t be able to directly effect Han with it before he gets blitzed, so then Han could attempt literally everything. So know we need to find out if Han can do literally anything since he can’t be stopped from blitzing.

 

[00potato]

Douchery does pierce resistances so that might work past his mind resistance. How much of Fugil’s stuff would count as magic, because Han can negate that with the spell disarming balls.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The proof that it is passive is that it's stated to be passive. Han Jee-Han got and leveled those skills especially because "passives rule". And yes the passive is a X2.2, but he can X20~"hundreds of times" with a thought, and has a danger sensing ability (and his "intuition" skill is literally precognitive).

I am not seeing all those resistances..? I might've missed them though. Anyways, his mindhax level is abysmal with scaling above a thing that affects a single human, I'm not seeing void manipulation resistance, BFR to a pocket dimension is a skill that can negate the basic resistances of people to it (or the less basic ones, since even the golem guild could force Lolikiano to stay in one they made), Han Jee-Han can have his golems absorb him while speedamped to hell and back, and he doesn't resist radiation or something as hot as a literal piece of the sun being summoned on him as far as I can see.

I'd need proof that his law manip is passive, because this is a neutral ground where he did not warp the laws of reality yet. More importantly, Han does have passive reality manipulation that makes the world follow the game-like logic of his powers, ignoring the natural laws of the world.

I meant the specific exemple given for it. I highly doubt that his first act as soon as he becomes sentient in a battle is to put on a bunch of laws restricting abilities he doesn't know the enemy may or may not have.


And once again, he both needs to make the law, as well as overcome Han's own reality warping with The Gamer.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Douchery does pierce resistances so that might work past his mind resistance. How much of Fugil’s stuff would count as magic, because Han can negate that with the spell disarming balls.

He has plain magic and skill negation by gesturing at people.

 

[Ionliosite]

The proof that it is passive is that it's stated to be passive. Han Jee-Han got and leveled those skills especially because "passives rule". And yes the passive is a X2.2, but he can X20~"hundreds of times" with a thought, and has a danger sensing ability (and his "intuition" skill is literally precognitive).

I am not seeing all those resistances..? I might've missed them though. Anyways, his mindhax level is abysmal with scaling above a thing that affects a single human, I'm not seeing void manipulation resistance, BFR to a pocket dimension is a skill that can negate the basic resistances of people to it (or the less basic ones, since even the golem guild could force Lolikiano to stay in one they made), Han Jee-Han can have his golems absorb him while speedamped to hell and back, and he doesn't resist radiation or something as hot as a literal piece of the sun being summoned on him as far as I can see.

I'd need proof that his law manip is passive, because this is a neutral ground where he did not warp the laws of reality yet. More importantly, Han does have passive reality manipulation that makes the world follow the game-like logic of his powers, ignoring the natural laws of the world.

I meant the specific exemple given for it. I highly doubt that his first act as soon as he becomes sentient in a battle is to put on a bunch of laws restricting abilities he doesn't know the enemy may or may not have.


And once again, he both needs to make the law, as well as overcome Han's own reality warping with The Gamer.

And what's the proof to that? Any scan for it? And 2x is a pretty weak amp for Fugil, literally more than enought time to think.

Fugil mindhax resistance is also abyssmal. Void Manip isn't even on Han's profile so I don't know what are you talking about that. Fugil doesn't have basic resistance to BFR, his resistance is via lawhax so unless Han in some shape or form can bypass law hax it won't work, and Lilikiano doesn't even have resistance to BFR. Fugil resists absorption, so this won't work either. Han don't have radiation listed on his profile and even if he has it what makes so special, because Fugil technically also resists hundreds of others abilities aside from the listed on his profile. Fugil also resist heat, I don't see what makes it so special that its made from the sun.

Fugil's law manip is thought based, he literally just needs one thought to do it, it doesn't even matter Han's amp since both of them just do it at the same time. And that doesn't grant resistance to law manip, and even if it the natural laws of the world, Fugil doesn't work like that.

Literally it doesn't matter if Fugil knows the abilities of his opponent he can just do it, he doesn't have to choose what ability is he going to resist/null.

After the battle against Lux, Fugil received treatment inside Ouroboros. But now he put on Bahamut and showed up outside.
At the same time he also activated Ouroboros's Divine Raiment. It overturned the battle situation instantly.
"Our attack, was erased……!?"
On the sky slightly east from the temple site, Lisha was in shock.
The bombardment from Sevens Heads that she fired just now definitely hit the half destroyed stomach of Ouroboros.
But, there was no damage or any trace of destruction from that attack.
That attack which she expected would destroy the Force Core landed perfectly. And yet it didn't do anything.
"Ane-ue, just now──Ouroboros's principle alteration was……"
Alma who was hovering beside Lisha wearing EX Wyvern spoke to her with trembling voice.
It was their best chance. But Fugil overturned the fatal predicament that Arshalia was in.
He performed mind control operation using Ouroboros's Sword Device in his possession.
【──The effect of attack and ability from Drag-Ride toward lifeless material is now invalid.】

Fugil literally gets in the battlñefield and invalidades all the abilities, so yes, he will do that.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah, no, I'm not going to start doing that. If you don't believe it feel free to make a crt to change the profile.

That is... what I said. I'm guessing you mean Han? In which case it is simply nit in any way. The Church of Masks, his mind haxing getting multiplied in potency in skills, him bypassing resistances, etc.

That was accepted in the current crt, here, with the scans for it as well. First of all, "hundreds of abilities" means nothing without specific. Does he resist radiation or not?

The heat is made special by the fact that it vaporized a 7-A character.

And that is proof against what you claimed. He needs to activate the ability. Han starts of with the speed advantage, has both danger sense (currently on the profile) and precognition (accepted in the above linked crt) to let him know not to **** around, and can X10 billion speed on thought.



Likewise, you gave absolutely no answer to Han's Gamer abilities warping reality to work according to his rules.

Abilities that do change the laws of reality, mind techniques, can't nullify his Gamer Powers either.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Hell, he didn't even nullify the power there before it went to hit him. Even if by some miracle he got it off, Han can still just amp by ten billion and literally spend centuries killing him, or just creating mind techniques to warp the laws of the world and still **** him up, or to make a void and have it devour everything since the void is something separate from space and time that needs feats for the law affecting nonexistent things.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, no, I'm not going to start doing that. If you don't believe it feel free to make a crt to change the profile.

That is... what I said. I'm guessing you mean Han? In which case it is simply nit in any way. The Church of Masks, his mind haxing getting multiplied in potency in skills, him bypassing resistances, etc.

That was accepted in the current crt, here, with the scans for it as well. First of all, "hundreds of abilities" means nothing without specific. Does he resist radiation or not?

The heat is made special by the fact that it vaporized a 7-A character.

And that is proof against what you claimed. He needs to activate the ability. Han starts of with the speed advantage, has both danger sense (currently on the profile) and precognition (accepted in the above linked crt) to let him know not to **** around, and can X10 billion speed on thought.



Likewise, you gave absolutely no answer to Han's Gamer abilities warping reality to work according to his rules.

Abilities that do change the laws of reality, mind techniques, can't nullify his Gamer Powers either.

So you don't have proof of it? Ok.

I don't get what you mean about the mind hax multiplied in potency since that's not how mind hax resistance works.

That doesn't even list void manipulation or is void manipulation at all, since every mention of the word void is refering to a black hole not a void, in which case is gravity manip, which Fugil resists. And why is exactly radiation a game changer when Fugil can regenerate or revive?

Fugil resist heat manip that works on a 6-C aka his later key.

I don't even get why you say that is proof againts what I claimed. Yes, he nees to activate the ability, he thinks and he resists everything listed on his profile. Fugil doesn't even mind a 10x speed adventage, so Han's 2x is nothing to him, Han's precog and danger senses aren't even good going by that scan, let alone as good as Fugil's which outdoes Krulcifer's. Also, there isn't even a scan for Han's 10x billion amp on the CRT.

Literally nothing on the game mechanics listed on the profile is Reality Manip.

And who said he would nullify his abilities? He just resists them and calls it a day.

Hell, he didn't even nullify the power there before it went to hit him. Even if by some miracle he got it off, Han can still just amp by ten billion and literally spend centuries killing him, or just creating mind techniques to warp the laws of the world and still **** him up, or to make a void and have it devour everything since the void is something separate from space and time that needs feats for the law affecting nonexistent things.

Wut? He literally resisted the very second he activated the ability, you're right he didn't nullified, since why would he null an ability he resists? Still no proof on the 10x billion amp or the void manip.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Uhuh, sure thing. It's there on the profile, has been for years now.

That's just simply wrong. If you go with numbers, Han overpower a hive of several tens of thousands worth of people. But on top of that he has abilities that increase his mindhaxes potency by 1000% and 800% on top of that, and there is no rule anywhere that says a character can't amplify their mindhax potency by a numerical amount.

Do you know what a black hole is? It's a gigantic mass of matter that rips subatoms apart and absorbs them. The void is not reen close to that, is created by breaking space itself apart, and erases whatever enters it. Feel free to voice your disagreement on the crt if you really disagree with it though.

Except, Han thinks first and becomes ten billion times faster. The initial X2 only matters to give him the first shot in battle, even ignoring how much his thought speed is superior to his physical movement.

I did give a scan for the ten billion later down Im pretty sure. But again, if you don't believe it, feel free to bring up your disagreement there.

It does. I'm not sure what to argue here, it does. It's listed as minor as he has no conscious control over it, but it's effects work all the same. It negates resistance to abilities that are absolute like fools act, grants him immunities, makes others around him function as a game as well, etc.

And resisting won't do him any good against Han having literally 370 years of time to do things for every second he does. Go to the crt and argue there, vsbattles aren't Tha place to question abilities.

Plus, again, he makes mind techniques to warp the laws of the world, easy.

 

[Ionliosite]

I literally read the whole ability section of the profile and the speed section and there isn't a single mention of this, so I don't see any proof of it.

Well, we measure mind hax potency in the number of people affected, so I have no idea how do you even translate that to this.

Breaking space is just space manip.

Han doesn't think first tho, they think at the same time, even with that so-called passive 2x multiplier you talk about Han and Fugil would still think at the same time; it's like, just because Usain Bolt is twice as faster than me it doesn't make him think 2 times faster than me.

As I said on the CRT 10 billion is pretty hard to get because the number is absurdly huge, and thus needs needs a ridiculous amount of evidence beyond "nothing contradicts it and he goes faster".

The scan on the CRT didn't explain why it did have reality warping, and even the current explanation isn't even reality warping. All those other claims would need proof since it's not on the profile.

Han literally can't make damage and/or incap him, it literally doesn't matter if Han could live 10000 years before Fugil made a movement, he still can't damage him with any of his powers.

Ok? Fugil also resists law manip.

 

[00potato]

Has his law manip even been shown to negate Mind hax of this degree?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

His second ability on the profile was Limited Reality Warping, dude. Feel free to check before my edit of putting the game mechanics in a different key, you'll see it's still there.

And yeah he can. Han Jee-Han can summon Pymon or any of the other 72 Demons to make them manifest warp nearby reality into becoming part of their hell nation to get around the law manip like Lolikiani did against Yeonhwa in the Poison Brazier, or make a void devour the whole place and "devour all existence", or have Yeonhwa put his spores into Fugil and just rip him apart from inside, or set up sorcerer towers and collect the Idea Power of humans in America with no gods to contest with, or summon Baal and have him do his thing (with him conquering hell itself, and being immensely superior to the likes of arc Company) in exchange of a contract or develop a mind technique to warp the laws of reality and kill him regardless.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The 72 Demons are corrupted gods who made Hell Nations their territory.

As explained with Arc Company, a God has control over the laws in their territory, which he used to set level caps on his follower's enemies and other game mechanics.

Previously, we got to see territory mechanics with The President buying a territory and obtaining control over its laws.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Sorry for the triple post (though it was several hours apart), though I do have a question about Fugil's tier.

If his form has a direct multiplier statement, wouldn't that being contradicted by his apparent Ap go against either the multiplier or the feat?

And the 7-A Calc scales off of Gigas's size by virtue of him being bigger, but you directly say it's an outlier for Gigás from what I understand? Should be obvious why you can't really work with applying it to one and not the other.

Also, iirc, the downgrade on size calcs did go through, so you might need to look out for that as well (assuming speed through size is not accepted anymore from what I got).

And is Gigas not a mecha/fortress? In that case, you'd need to take hollowness into account, which tends to be a minimum of 50% and potentially even 90%.


Im willing of talking about this in a crt or on my wall, just asking upfront in-case these things came up before.

 

[Ionliosite]

His second ability on the profile was Limited Reality Warping, dude. Feel free to check before my edit of putting the game mechanics in a different key, you'll see it's still there.

And yeah he can. Han Jee-Han can summon Pymon or any of the other 72 Demons to make them manifest warp nearby reality into becoming part of their hell nation to get around the law manip like Lolikiani did against Yeonhwa in the Poison Brazier, or make a void devour the whole place and "devour all existence", or have Yeonhwa put his spores into Fugil and just rip him apart from inside, or set up sorcerer towers and collect the Idea Power of humans in America with no gods to contest with, or summon Baal and have him do his thing (with him conquering hell itself, and being immensely superior to the likes of arc Company) in exchange of a contract or develop a mind technique to warp the laws of reality and kill him regardless.

And the description still isn't reality warping, I literally checked the profile again before commenting for that reason.

No, he can't, first of all, none of those abilities are on his profile, like not even in summoning or standard equipment, and how the hell is he supposed to get around law manip when Fugil is applying to himself? Taking Fugil there would still mantain his law manip. Fugil literally resists being destroyed from the inside, one of the characters of the verse can destroy you from the inside. I don't even get what that Idea of Power of humans is and it isn't on the profile. I don't even know what Baal does. Again, Fugil resists law manip, so it isn't working either. And the summoning on his profile of the 72 Demons is not even the key that is being used.

The 72 Demons are corrupted gods who made Hell Nations their territory.

As explained with Arc Company, a God has control over the laws in their territory, which he used to set level caps on his follower's enemies and other game mechanics.

Previously, we got to see territory mechanics with The President buying a territory and obtaining control over its laws.

Fugil has resistance to law manip so this doesn't even matter.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You agreed to the summoning of the 72 Demons, I gave you the link to the void, Yeonhwa is made of spores and liquid as you'll see on his profile and pulled this exact thing against Han, I can give you a scan if his towers absorbing nearby Idea Power if you really need it (it's his sorcerer tower, which iirc was already on there), Baal is the strongest demon and one of the strongest gods (including one's that can nuke all of Korea, or make an exploding sun that would destroy it at 0.1% of their strength), and it's Han that needs to not be affected by the law.

It was the key being used before I split them, I'd have imagined you'd wish to use the newer key.

And, yes, he forces reality to function as a game around him, I goring the natural rules of reality. That is warping reality, unsurprisingly.

 

[Ionliosite]

I just literally told you that that is not on the same in key in the profile. But anyway, why him being made of spores and liquid made it important or strong? and if you say that it destroys you drom the insede I already told you that Fugil resist that. Fugil resists absorption. Literally not on the key I'm using. Han doesn't have resistance to law manip and Fugil needs to affect himself to gain the resistances.

The newer key is not even High 7-C, it is 7-B.

It isn't tho, and if it is is just affecting himself. And why it does even matter if it "makes reality like a game" when Han doesn't even resist what it's been used on him?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The key you were using ore-upsate was the last key of Han and his new profile in one, which I then subsequently split with the crt.

And you don't need absorption to grow things inside someone. Yeonhwa puts his spores into people, and they grow and rip them apart.

Anyways, Han Jee-Han in his Seol Conquest key just instantly leaves for his pocket dimension and send golems outside of it to fight for him.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Well, not outside of it, his golems are in another pocket dimension than the one he is in.

 

[Ionliosite]

The key you were using ore-upsate was the last key of Han and his new profile in one, which I then subsequently split with the crt.

And you don't need absorption to grow things inside someone. Yeonhwa puts his spores into people, and they grow and rip them apart.

Anyways, Han Jee-Han in his Seol Conquest key just instantly leaves for his pocket dimension and send golems outside of it to fight for him.

I don't get it, Divine Tree Arc and Seoul Conquest are the same or are different keys?

I wasn't refering to Yeonhwa when I mentioned the absorption thing, I was refering to "his towers absorbing nearby Idea Power" which I get as absorption. Anyway, as I said before Fugil resists getting destroyed from the inside.

And what do the Golems do?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

My bad, I thought we used "seul Conquest" name for his tree key (since he does conquer seul, and a lot of other places). Anyways, previously his tree key extended too after he fused with Yeonhwa, which then I retroactively divided up, so assumed we'd use his newer key.

Idea Power is taken from regular sentient beings and is used to empower the one absorbing it, with 80 million humans being enough to create planetoids the size of Korea. Han normally only has about a million or so however.

As for golems, they use their Low-high regen to either outlast the enemy or to stall them, while more golems are created.