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Halo: Low 5B Mantle's Approach?

Schnee_One

Schnee_One

VS Battles
Retired
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So after talking a bit with my friend Dragon and actually looking at the calculation I figured this may need some checking.

So for those who haven't seen the calc, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DarkDragonMedeus/War_Sphinx_flips_Continental_land_mass

326 Exatons

Not even .5x that is baseline Low 5B (466 Exatons)

Now let's take this into account

The War Sphinx, as noted on the profile, is especially outdated by comparison to modern tanks in the forerunner army

Said modern tanks are complete and utter fodder by comparison to the Mantle's Approach, a literal flagship.

For this reason, I personally think that Mantle's Approach should have the Possibly Low 5B for the huge power difference yet small AP jump
 
Funny, Mantle is a old ass ship in comparassion to the most modern ships, wich have been confirmed to crack plantes, I say its seems right.
 
That's incredibly consistent

Also Didact should have Sealing with the composer judging by him being able to seal minds in it
 
I am working on that, but I still need some scans for it, I think Versus and me agreed it was Soul/Mind absorption and Sealing.
 
Actually how long did it take for a Didact to come back from Vaporization?
 
As of Escalation? Is unknown, but is straightfordward regen. since his bodies were destroyed alongside the Mantle, perhaps it should be like the classic Forerunner-Promethean regen. in wich they regenerate arms and body parts during the battle or in a open window were they can do it without worries.
 
Speaking of the calc, that reminds me. War Sphinx is high enough for a "+" sign on the stats, as well as Class E lifting strength given the landmass it lifted was that big. Anyway, I'm unsure about Low 5-B based on an assumed multiplier. Though, I noticed the ships have similar feats of flipping continental landmasses. I do know Forerunners used to have access to Star level weapons, but those are more suicide weapons.

Also, the Mantle's Approach was actually created by the Precursors and existed before the Forerunners. And as for the Composer, sealing is good, and I would call that Data Manipulation and Memory Manipulation, Soul Manipulation is a big no. Minds and souls are two widely different things; being non physical things doesn't make them the same. There are no spiritual powers, magic, ghosts, ect present in the Halo series; so BFR'ing memories and storing them as digital data cannot be assumed to be the same.

Note: I saw on message wall that VJ said Soul manipulation was iffy. Also, Precursors never existed as souls and that should be removed from profile. The weren't real gods, and had fairly clear limits even with Slipspace technology. They don't have Causality manipulation and couldn't save themselves from the Halo array. Which is simply just a blast that wipes out all biological life. And also, the Primordial is now a Proto Gravemind actually; no longer a Precursor.
 
@DDM Skipping the first part since we already agreed upon that.

Since Versus already responded about the Mantle being Precursor tech. I would say yes and no to the latter, firstly, the Composer absorb the essence of a person, wich is quite literally the Non-Physical representation of a being that still contains its mind, this is quite literally the description of a soul, not soul manipulation I dont even know where that come from, also, Halo being Sci-Fi doesnt mean it cant have something as common in fiction as souls because "muh realistic universe", they stored this essences and alter their memories to use their minds in Promethan Warriors, as simple as that.

Also whats up with the whole Precursor downplay out of nowhere like if we were talking about them, the only point that has any relevance is you ignoring that they became souls, I am still investigating on the comics and novels, but they literally existed as cosmic ghosts, not to mention that the Primordial is a Precursor, not a Proto-Gravemind, he doesnt even come close to looking like one, if so, post sources.
 
I thought it said so in the Precursors profile. According to Halo:Silentium, the Precursors used "the Mantle" to travel to other galaxies via Slipspace. Anyway, it may not be the Mantle's Approach, but they did have ships similar to them.

I didn't see the word "Essence" in the context of the primary English edition taken strait from America, which I live in America so I likely have access to more properly worded versions. I heard there are so many bad translations in the Spanish, Russian, ect editions, and using Google Translate doesn't help much. Still, "Souls" and "Minds" are not the same thing. Yes it's true their both Non-physical representations, but they're completely different; ones a mental aspect while the other is exists on an Astral Plane. Nothing suggests the composer can effect things on such a plane field. Again, Sealing and Memory manipulation was agreed upon, but there's no proof of lifeforce, spirit energy, souls, ect existing. Keep in mind, composed Prometheans don't even have "Free Will." It's unknown what actually happens to the soul if there is one, it either passes on to the afterlife, erases naturally for all we know; assuming composer can capture ghosts or other Non-Corporeal beings is absurd. Also, Halo being Sci-Fi has nothing to do with souls being non existent, especially since there are plenty of versus that mix fantasy with sci fi, or religion, ect. But Halo's actual lore is often quite secular/athiestic in nature.

Reppuzan and Everlasting where investigating the God Tiers and other Civilization, and we'll wait for Everlasting to come back before we finish revising them. But they agree that much of the abilities are false, and the the god tiers have been wanked on every category for a long time. Again, Precursors are physical entities, and also, Flood and Precursors were originally the same race. Halo Nation isn't 100% reliable, but there's basic info here and here. The Floods are merely the Precursors who have devolved into more mindless parasitic life forms due to some plague they accidently caused. The Primordial used to be a Precursor, but now is merely a Proto-Gravemind. Also, they aren't intangible so as far as they're the only race that was once capable of reaching places outside the Milky Way Galaxy. Which reminds me, the Glow simply says it exists outside the galaxy, so might need to downgrade Didact's scanner range to Intergalactic. There's no proof of it accessing other Infinite sized Space Time Continuums.

Anyway, I have a really busy schedule IRL today, so won't be able to say much till after work. And also got a appointment very soon before that. But that last thing I want is that we bring up the Tier 2/1 stuff; I don't even need to explain why.
 
The Precursors dindt have technology such as ships iirc, only ancillas, they traveled by pure flight.

Essence is a nickname, since they dont have official names, but calling them souls would be the same since they are literally the non-existant beings that keep all of their memories and feelings, pretty much a soul, wich is the thing the Composer drags and steals from the people the laser comes in contact, not to mention that halo's way of religion or any similar aproach has nothing to do here.

The Prometheans are brainwashed essences after they are capture in the cauldron, thats why they dont betray the Forerunner at the instant they see them.

Can I see where they agree they are wankd? And even then I heavily doubt that they know the Forerunners as well as somebody like FanofRPGs or Versus, not to mention that Ever was permanently banned across FANDOM, also both are heavily downplayed in every category, not wanked, the Forerunner have tech. surpassing 4-C levels by a lot, the Primordial was the last Precursor, until he dissolved into the cosmic dust that ultimately created the Flood, and yes they werent souls, they were physical beings, but after their bodies were destroyed they traveled space in a Ghost form, also completely false, the Glow is literally stated to be another realm made of photons, being outside the Galaxy =/= being in the same universe.
 
Precursors, did have technology. It even says so in the description that they constructed ships, and slipspace technology. Also, Slipspace is the only thing in the verse that grants FTL or above travel speed, Precursors are rated as Relativistic naturally.

That's still not proof of it being a soul. I could be hear all day talking about what a soul actually is, but this isn't a Sunday school. We need proof of it being more like Astral Projection to call it a soul. Memories aren't the same thing as soul, and digital data =/= Afterlife concepts, gods, ect.

Reppuzan said so in another thread. He said he and Everlasting are very skeptical about 99% of your sentiments given your history of making too many assumptions about obvious hyperbole's. You often use the term "Upper Dimensional" as a way of upgrading a lot of characters to High 2-A which gets rejected. And same with the one vague statement spoken by a minor character about Slipspace being 11-Dimensional, despite lack of proof or any other evidence shown. Copy pasting from Halo Nation also doesn't help since they used that statement to exaggerate the article. Everlasting isn't permabanned, it was only for like 3 months, but Reppuzan and Matthew Schroeder are still in touch with him from what I here.

FanofRPGs has also permanently left the wiki and he also agreed that anything higher than 3-C is wank, and that even 3-C is questionable at best. 3-C should only be via environmental destruction rather than scaling to all stats. Forerunners already have the Star level stuff, but Tier 2/1, Causality manipulation, Reality Warping, all of that is wank. And Space-Time is more limited, they don't transcend it, but more so they decelerate and accelerate it. Slipspace is more like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in how time works. Still, Matt, Reppuzan, Ever, ect are way more knowledgeable about what Causality manipulation actually is though; and there were a lot of things FanofRPGs didn't quite understand. No offence to him or you, he was a good calc group member, but there were a lot of calcs and abilities he didn't have the best understanding of. Speaking of which, he said he got most of his info from SpaceBattles, which is actually a really unreliable source for Halo topics. Matt, Ever, and Versus know that from experience.

Also, they created the flood indirectly by decaying themselves. Also, a realm could simply mean pocket reality for all we know which is completely different from being in a different universe. Ghost forms were never stated, but rather, they become the flood is what actually happened reading the context. And Photons are just the Macro Quantum particles that Light is composed of; still an elementary concept. King Kai no longer has Low Multiversal range due to this reasoning, same with Goku or Majin Buu.
 
We need to avoid talking about Precursors since we are derailing the thread, that would come after we are done with the UNSC and Covenant, anyways, souls dont need to be 100% precent specified, if they were only their Minds or Memories then the cauldron wouldnt be filled with the aforementioned non-physical beings.

Halo The Composer's Abyss
 
I saw that image, but those could be more like computer AI's rather than souls. X.A.N.A doesn't have Soul Manipulation based on that logic, so I highly doubt it's the same thing here. Digital data or even memories =/= Souls.
 
They arent digital data nor memories, those thing contain the minds of those that were Ionized by the Composer thats why they are able to manipulate them, these arent Data beings since those could easily be storage in the Domain or something else, as i said previously these is what the composer drags and seals from people.
 
The Composer transmutes biological lifeforms into Digital Data transforming them into Computer AI's. That's what the description says, so in other words, they're digital data.
 
Okay, I'm alright with likely Low 5-B, and the Composer, sealing and memory manipulation in addition to Data Manipulation and Virtualizatio, or I think Antonifier worded it as Digitizatio. I disagree with Soul Manipulation. And as for Resistances, Didact could have all accept sealing I'm a little iffy in sealing; that's pretty much how he was defeated. As for John, Memory Manipulation doesn't quite happen till after the composition, so resistance to virtualization/digitization and data manipulation is good, resistance memory manipulation, that's a maybe but iffy.
 
That basically explains my point, is that the term, "Essence" is simply a metaphor for what Forerunners call them. But what they actually are is digital data, which is memories. And the only purpose is to transfer that data into robots, so that they don't share the weaknesses to biological viruses. It still has nothing to do with actual souls.
 
We should add a explanation tabber with some recurrent terms in Halo so we can keep track of their meaning.
 
Speaking of which, that actually reminds me. If the 2nd Key refers to him having access to technology such as the Mantle's Approach among other things, wouldn't the Composer be something that's only included in that key? Because most threads typically has it assumed it always has some degree of outside help.
 
Not really, the second key would more so be with the Mantle's Aproach only or his equipment as Forerunner general, while the Composer is something that he usually uses without the Mantle and can be used without being attached at the Mantle.

EDIT: I think a better key format would be: Standart Equipment | Full Equipment, or ditch them and just add a Low 5-B to his standart tiering and add the with The Mantle's Aproach.
 
I always assumed the composer was kinda already assumed to be a useable weapon in all keys

Least that's what I remember from Esdeath vs Didact
 
Yeah, that's kind of the same thing as assuming the UNSC Infinity is in orbit or nearby whenever John or other Spartan is in a VS Thread. If he can actually carry it around, or at least have a Composer follow him everywhere he goes without a ship or station, then it's fair. But his base key should assume he has no vehicles or ships.
 
That's not the same thing. The Mantle's Approach is The Didact's personal ship. The Infinity is not MC's personal ship. It should be handled like other forms of outside help where it has to be specified by the OP in order to be allowed.
 
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