Hakumen vs Gilgamesh (Fate Series)

[Reppuzan]

@AquaWaifu

For the record, this Gil is once again more clear-headed than normal Gil and will actually use Ea as a casual attack.

As for the Gate of Babylon, who says Gil has to stop firing? He has countless weapons at his disposal, at the moment Hakumen's Earthbind gives out (since the Blazblue wiki makes no mention of it lasting longer if struck with more projectiles), he gets skewered from behind or the side.

Regen doesn't mean much against Gil's arsenal, since he has at least three weapons that negate regen and likely many more.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Im not adding Bloodlust when it purely benefits Gil when Gil is still just fine without it.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Because that's why he needed a master to command him......

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gargoyle

He's not exactly nerfed in mindset. In fact, he actually steals his Master's command seals at the start of the game so he can do whatever the hell he wants. That said, this Gil is much more clear-headed and willing to do what it takes to win a fight, entering combat with some of his best treasures and spamming GoB and Enkidu like mad. He'll also use Ea as a casual attack. No real need to bloodlust here.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Im not bloodlusting cause as it seem Gil already has advantages looking at all the votes, so no. Im not giving a one sided benefit to the currently winning character.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

@Aqua

It seems to me that you're forgetting that Gil can create portals from above and below his target not just around front, back and sides. Earthbinds are big but they don't last long and Gil is not going to just keep firing torrents of weapons at them. He'll just wait until they're gone and rinse repeat until he bring Haku down by death by a thounds cuts.

The point is that Hakumen cannot react to and reach every single projectile if he's surrounded on all sides. Earthbind helps Haku out but it doesn't neutrilize the GoB nor does it stop Gil from firing his weapons only at various times as he observes Haku and his fighting method.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Oh yeah I forgot, Gil in CCC isn't arrogant.(well you get my point)

My point on him getting EAd still stands if that's the case.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Gil can use GoB without firing the weapons as projectiles , and he can also fire them from extremely close range (skip to 0:16 and watch until 0:45. Or just watch the whole thing, it's a pretty short video). Earthbinding stuff does not neutralize GoB at all.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Not forget, I didnt know since nothing on his profile or what little i've seen in animations insinuated that about GoB.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Wait....

If they're both bloodlusted, wouldn't that make Hakumen to use time killer immediately?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Yes, but i don't think he would be able to land it since he would have to go through a constant storm of Noble Phantasms, Enkidu and an Ea blast to hit Gil. And considering bloodlusted Gil would have SNI active from the start, if Hakumen managed to survive the initial attack, Gil would already be far away on one of his flying ships charging Ea up again.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Gilgamesh for reasons above.

 

[AquaWaifu]

hon wait....I forgot, how DOES GoB get countered hard here? you mentioned that.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Hakumen has the ability to nullify any projectile attack that hits his sword. But GoB attacks from all angles, and with speed equalised Hakumen can't block them all.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Hmm I would unequalize speed but frickin GIl has UNKNOWN speeds outside of travel speed.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Why? Then Haku would blitz.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Nah I mean maybe, but Gil has MFTL+ with that skip thing of his.

 

[Gargoyle_2]

Travel speed is entirely useless in a fight, most likely he has Hypersonic to High Hypersonic reactions, so Hakumen would blitz.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gargoyle

Didn't we ask you to stop using two accounts?

Regardless, it's best to keep speeds equalized for the time being in the sake of fairness to both sides.

 

[AquaWaifu]

stupid GoB being basically more useful under speed equalization.


lol

 

[Reppuzan]

@Aquawaifu

Would you rather have Gil nuke Hakumen from orbit?

 

[AquaWaifu]

Hmm yeah probably. At least then it'd be proper overkill.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Okay, then Gil wins via nuking from orbit.

@Repp I could have sworn I logged on 1, my bad.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Bumped

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Aren't there seven votes for Gilgamesh already?

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Yep, there are 7, unless you don't count Reppuzan, then it's 6

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Okay, we'll wait for him to confirm first.

 

[Drellix]

Isn't Ea a one hit kill weapon?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Drellix

Tears apart space-time and can tear apart the concept of Gaia and everything on it, so yup.

 

[Drellix]

Problem I see with this is that Gilgamesh in character will not make use of Ea right away. While Hakumen tries to end his opponent as quickly as possible.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Drellix

You're thinking of mainstream Gil. Fate/Extra CCC Gil is still arrogant, but plays for keeps, and abuses Ea's power as a casual attack. He'll even use Enuma Elish with just a little urging from his master without malice.

 

[Drellix]

I see. In that case, I'll have to go Gilgamesh on this. Power of Order won't save him here sadly.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Wait under speed equalization, are weapons unrelated to the character's speed be unaffected or not? It seems odd that the speed at which the swords fly out from GoB would count under it. I remember hearing that if it doesnt scale to the character's own speed its unaffected? Im asking this more out of clairfication.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Reaction speed, or more accurately perception speed, is equalised (e.g. Alibaba from Magi can experience a second as an eternity, but his actual movement speed is less than that. Useful for people with instant effect powers, like teleportation and telekinesis and such)

Combat speed is also equalised. (how fast they can actually fight - essentially, reaction speed allows one to see the incoming threat, combat speed allows you to move to block it)

Attack speed is not equalised. Attacks speed is if an attack moves faster than the actual character does, e.g. if a completely normal human had a gun that shot bullets that moved at the speed of light, their attack speed would be lightspeed, but their combat speed would be normal human.

I suppose you could actually make a case that the velocity the GoB fires weapons at qualifies as attack speed, and is less than light speed, so Hakumen's FTL would easily be able to dodge or block them. If you make this case, and people accept it, I would change my vote back to Hakumen.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Monarch

When we say Speed Equalized, we mean that everything is equalized. Gil's projectiles would be changed to FTL in order to make this fair.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Alright screw it, I'll debate this.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/695295

The velocity of Gil's projectiles are attack speed and thus their speed is not equalised, While Gil himself may be able to open and fire the weapons at FTL speeds to match hakumen, the projectiles themselves will not, and Hakumen blocks them with ease.

 

[Reppuzan]

From my experience, everything in a debate is equalized.

By not equalizing attack speed, you're effectively rendering the Gate of Babylon slower than Gil himself, which is absolutely ridiculous from the outset.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

By not equalizing attack speed, you're effectively rendering the Gate of Babylon slower than Gil himself, which is absolutely ridiculous from the outset.

Ah the weirdness of speed equalised

(Just unequalise speed and have Gil nuke Haku from orbit)

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Gilgamesh has to get on the plane first)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

(They start 4km away from each other in the middle of New York, he'll have enough time to get on the plane)