Hagoromo otsutsuki (Naruto) vs Yhwach (Bleach)

[AppleLord]

Hagoromo by Chibaku Tensei strips away Yhwach's powers and seals him. Yhwach has a lot of weakness, but none are on his profile, that's odd.

 

[Omimi]

Oh, so that's what you're referring to.

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do u think Almighty Yhwach can come back after getting his soul erased via tsb

minato lost part of his soul it was erased via tsb http://imgur.com/QHryerS

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

Hagoromo by Chibaku Tensei strips away Yhwach's powers and seals him. Yhwach has a lot of weakness, but none are on his profile, that's odd.

Wait what? I don't remember a meteor could strip one's power away lol. Or I'm probably forgetting something.

 

[AppleLord]

Reishi is energy draw from Naruto, it should work the same way.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

Oh right cause there's verse equalization here.

 

[Omimi]

Wait what? I don't remember a meteor could strip one's power away lol. Or I'm probably forgetting something.

http://mangalife.us/read-online/Naruto-chapter-690.html

 

[AppleLord]

Wait what? I don't remember a meteor could strip one's power away lol. Or I'm probably forgetting something.

I was referring to Six Paths Chibaku Tensei of course.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

Ohh that one. I thought he was talking about that Chibaku Tensei where Madara used multiple satellites.

Edit: You ninja'd me m8.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

So, is there an agreement that Hags wins this?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Omimi

TSBs do not erase the soul. Minato's soul was just fine. TSBs simply stop those revived through Edo Tensei from regenerating since the Yin-Tang Release present in TSBs interferes with the process that binds their bodies together. Don't make faulty assumptions like this.

There's honestly no reason why Yhwach wouldn't stomp here, since Blut Vene Anhaben is his first line of defense and Hagoromo has yet to have any actual Reality Warping feats outside of hype statements that never bore fruit.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

There's honestly no reason why Yhwach wouldn't stomp here, since Blut Vene Anhaben is his first line of defense and Hagoromo has yet to have any actual Reality Warping feats outside of hype statements that never bore fruit.

Preta makes that irrelevant being he'd absorb it, add the energy to his own reserves and negate the status effect of it. The same goes for his AP. Skilled Rinnegan users can attack and absorb simultaniously thus regulating their Chakra levels. Yhwach would gradually get weaker as Hags uses his energy as a battery and gets stronger.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Barry

Yhwach is much stronger in pure AP even without the Almighty. 5-B vs Low 5-B is not insignificant.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Blut vene anhaben consumes all beings that touch it aswell. So no preta touching there.

Even so its Also NLF to say that he can absorb something more powerful than his own power.

Saying that nagato did it is also a fallacy, because we do not know how much power was actually put into the attack and logically makes little sense.

Theres also Sankt Zwinger which will prevent hagoromo from getting close also

Also Yhwach has seriously like, 4 different ways of absorbing people. Sklaverei would at the very least rip out Hagoromos chakra and the tailed beast, (killing Hagoromo) and Sankt Altar also steals his power.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It was Base Yhwach i.e the Yhwach who actually still utilized normal Quincy techniques like that who used that. Ever since he absorbed the Soul King, he just spams his black energy attacks. Correct me if I'm wrong. I already said something on the AP discrepancy, if you're speaking of Hagoromo not being able to absorb Yhwach's attacks. Even a sick and frail Nagato who's normally weak physically absorbed V2 Bee's attacks. Ichibē also destroyed Yhwach's forcefield. Just can't remember how.

'Hagoromo has yet to display any actual Reality Warping feats outside of hype statements that never bore fruit'

Yes, I agree that we shouldn't make wild assumptions. But we've been clearly informed that Izanagi is an inferior version of the Creation of All Things. No way Hagoromo can't do something similar when fodder Uchiha could use it. And obviously, that's a big lowball.

Also, I see no actual counter to Hagoromo's treasured tools.

@Aizen

What Nagato example are you speaking of?

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Burning Yes Base Yhwach who did not have his almighty, like here. And he was holding back against Ichigo so you can't use that to justify him not using Quincy powers either.

Also weak physically does not necessarily mean weak chakra wise. In Nagato case he was completely immobile, exhausted already from destroying Konoha and still could fight the nine tails forms.

EDIT; The rasenshuriken thing you mentioned earlier.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Actually, he was holding back against Aizen somewhat too. I'm thinking it's because he was too confident in his strength at that point. Base Yhwach was a better man.

It was the strongest body that fought against Naruto/Kurama. That's why his durability feat of tanking a Bijuudama applies to the Deva Path only. I also don't really understand what you mean when you say we don't know how much power was put into the attack. If you're referring to Rasenshuriken, it's Town level and there's no reason to assume the power is much lesser. Even Base Naruto's Rasenshuriken is Small Town level+. I just can't see it being as low as City Block level or thereabouts. If the Preta Path couldn't repeatedly absorb whatever Rasenshuriken Naruto threw at the bodies, Naruto wouldn't have tried a different strategy and the Preta Path wouldn't be jumping in front of every single Rasenshuriken despite none of its stats being close to Small Town to Town level. Also, I mentioned Base Madara absorbing Onoki's Jinton and Pain dispersing Rasenshuriken and Amaterasu with Shinra Tensei. By the way, didn't the Preta Path also absorb Jiraiya's Ultra Big Ball Rasengan?

Anyway, about Blut Vene Anhaben, I don't think Hagoromo would be consumed so easily. Preta Path forms a barrier around the user after all. He would know to backtrack like Ichibē did. I'm not sure what other feats the forcefield has aside from disintegrating Ichibē's rods or something.

Can't remember how Sankt Zwinger works.

I'm confused on the issue of Sklaverei. It rips away at spiritual beings - something neither Hagoromo nor the Juubi are - so I'm not sure how it would matter here. Anyway, if the Juubi gets extracted, I doubt Hagoromo would die since Kushina survived Kurama's extraction in a vulnerable state and Obito survived for some time after losing the Juubi. Also, Yhwach would expose himself to the danger of the TSBs if he comes within meters of Hagoromo. Sankt Altar is debatable. It shoots energy beams which might be able to be absorbed, nullified, or dispersed/repelled with Shinra Tensei.

Err, so Yhwach does have ways of putting Hagoromo down, but I don't see why Hagoromo can't use something like Izanagi to get rid of the effects of anything Yhwach does. Meanwhile, since Yhwach doesn't have The Almighty here, he has to go through the fight trying to possibly figure out how Hagoromo's Reality Warping works and how to nullify the effects (and this is assuming Hagoromo won't be able to do squat which I doubt) without being killed or sealed. I don't see that happening. I'm more interested in the sealing options available to Hagoromo.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Barry
Yhwach is much stronger in pure AP even without the Almighty. 5-B vs Low 5-B is not insignificant.

Well, when you can absorb their energy and redirect it back at them simultaniously...it kinda is.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Redirect it? How?

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Aizen

For starters, BA doesn't consume off bat, it requires prolonged contact as shown in the case of Ichibei vs Yhwach and like I said, Preta negates status effects. Check the image I posted above.

Not so. We have instances of that happening via Toneri and Madara, except in those cases, they didn't have control over their bodies to regulate their nergy levels. Or rather in Toneri's case, not enough skill. If you have a cup and poke a large hole in the bottom of it, the water you pour will constantly flow out. So, yes, He can absorm much more energy so long as he can redirect it. I.E, Chakra Control. That's not a NLF.

And Skalevari can't rip out souls and other energy beings from within a flesh body. There is nothing to back up that claim. Sankt Alter isn't going to work for a multitude of reasons, primarily of which is ST.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Sigh. Guys really? Yhwach is roughly 390x stronger than Hagoromo going off the naruto calcs and all these NLF arguments are getting annoying. i'm out.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

I fail to see how in-verse mechanics is a NLF under verse equalization. But sure, let's chuck it out the window. Hags can't absorb Yhwachs attacks or defenses, he has nothing and can't do anything. At best he stale mate spamming Izanagi like abilities.

Are we done here? Because that's the only outcome the Yhwach supporters will accept it seems like.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Going with Yhwach for above reasons.

 

[BoomeYang]

Also going with Yhwach. The AP difference is quite large and saying he can absorb attacks is indeed a NLF. He maybe can absorb attacks a bit stronger than him, but 390 times stronger? Nah, that's quite the stretch.

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

It should be a little lower than 390 times since the Hagoromo which is being used has not had a key yet for his Juubi increase.

All the examples that were used were characters that could absorb attacks did not have sage chakra. Sage chakra has been shown to make attacks easier to use.

Even if Hagoromo cannot absorb all of Yhwach's attacks he can still use the ability to absorb attacks to lessen the damage he takes.He already has quite a strong resistance to ninjutsu attacks without the tsb plus if he is the Juubi had can regenerate.

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

Could someone keep a tally of this match

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Eep, I didn't know the difference was that big. Even if we say Hagoromo couldn't absorb anything, nobody has brought up a way Yhwach would get rid of Hagoromo when he uses stuff like Izanagi. I'll be waiting. Also, I don't mean to sound rude if that's what it sounded like. Just that saying Yhwach would stomp/win based on the AP difference alone is faulty when he has nothing for Hagoromo's Reality Warping. And like I said before, Soul King Yhwach is arrogant and casual, he didn't hold back on Ichigo alone. Let's say he one-shots Hagoromo, Hagoromo uses his Reality Warping to achieve something similar to Izanagi, then Yhwach lets his guard down, Hagoromo one-shots due to Yhwach's status as a glass canon. If someone can give me a appropriate way Yhwach can get around the effects of the Reality Warping, and without getting one-shotted or sealed the first time he gets caught off-guard, I'm willing to change my vote to Yhwach.

Also, nobody has brought up anything for Hagoromo's offensive options, especially his sealing. We've been debating on Yhwach's offence after all.

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi
TSBs do not erase the soul. Minato's soul was just fine. TSBs simply stop those revived through Edo Tensei from regenerating since the Yin-Tang Release present in TSBs interferes with the process that binds their bodies together.

unlike other edo

u should know that minato soul was not sommon from after life his soul was seal in reaper

after unsealing his soul from reaper

his soul did not go to after life

so u cant say that Edo Tensei binds his soul to earth via edo

cause even without body he soul was on earth

unlike other edo

again his soul was not sommon

You can clearly see Minatos arms didn't grow back even after being released from his EDO

Yin-Tang Release present in TSBs interferes with the process that binds their bodies together

if what u said truth

then why his arm wasnt there when EDO was released

his hand should be still on there/earth cuz his soul wasnt even sommon from after life/from any place

his soul was on earth without any jutsu

Minato's soul was just fine

his soul missing arm and u say his soul was just fine

this is his soul not his edo body

 

[Omimi]

Sklaverei would at the very least rip out Hagoromos chakra and the tailed beast, (killing Hagoromo) and Sankt Altar also steals his power.

but did u forgot that Hagoromo also can rip out souls

 

[AppleLord]

but did u forgot that Hagoromo also can rip out souls

Yhwach is already a soul, mate.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

LA's statement on Yhwach's skalevarie is false. Nothing backs up him being able to do that.

 

[AppleLord]

LA's statement on Yhwach's skalevarie is false. Nothing backs up him being able to do that.

Don't call people names, that's not cool and rude.

LA's statement comes straight from what another Quincy did, just how most of Hagoromo's skills are been presented here, because he has less feats than Yhwach. If something is wrong debunk it, don't call people names.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

LA's statement on Yhwach's skalevarie is false. Nothing backs up him being able to do that.

Don't call people names, that's not cool and rude.
LA's statement comes straight from what another Quincy did, just how most of Hagoromo's skills are been presented here, because he has less feats than Yhwach. If something is wrong debunk it, don't call people names.

I didn't call anyone names, dude...-_-

Secondly, no. If you reread the bleach chapters where it's used, the only thing Skalevarie does is absorb Spirit Energy/Particles. Let's not forget, in bleach when you're in the spiritual planes (Soul Society/Hueco Mundo), you exist as a spirit. Spirits in Bleach and abilities are made of Reshi/Reiatsu which Skalevarie targets.

Nowhere is it stated or shown that it can soul rip or absorb inner energies/entities out of a flesh body. So, yes, his statement in relation to hags is false. The way he uses the ability in his post is false even. It just doesn't do that.

 

[AppleLord]

Energy is equalized by default, both souls will be made of reishi.

You're right on the rest. My apoligizes.

 

[LucyyXNyuXHana]

I'm going with Hagoromo on this one -- regardless if Yhwach has almighty or not he'd have to give in to the reality warp looping of the better izanagi and forfeit. Without that Hagoromo still has a bunch of hax to take down Yhwach via sealing, soul ripping, or just draining him out. Strength often doesn't win against hax, and including the fact that this is speed qqualized Yhwach is incredibly vunerable to Hagoromo.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Applelord

That's the thing, the op doesn't specify which Hags. It's either Alive or Dead.

And even then, Hags can get over it with Izanagi related abilities. And technically, Being able to absorb Nature Energy should be the equivalent of Skalevarie anyhow. Under verse-equalization.

 

[Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness]

@Applelord

That's the thing, the op doesn't specify which Hags. It's either Alive or Dead.

And even then, Hags can get over it with Izanagi related abilities. And technically, Being able to absorb Nature Energy should be the equivalent of Skalevarie anyhow. Under verse-equalization.

I changed it to alive Hagoromo.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Applelord

That's the thing, the op doesn't specify which Hags. It's either Alive or Dead.

And even then, Hags can get over it with Izanagi related abilities. And technically, Being able to absorb Nature Energy should be the equivalent of Skalevarie anyhow. Under verse-equalization.

I changed it to alive Hagoromo.

GG Skalevarie arguments!

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Burning Full fingers makes a solid argument, Yhwach is way to arrogant for his own good I mean he was defeated by two moon level beings, with one character being completely haxless and the other somewhat more haxed, if it wasn't for the almighty he would of been killed relatively quickly. i dont see how Hogoromo who has way more options including a higher AP than both aizen and ichigo could lose. while yhwach has the AP advantage he never uses his full power anyway, he will toy with hogoromo and that will be his downfall, Hogoromo: Izanagi, clones,limbo, absorption,hell king ect will defeat the overconfident king. voting hogoromo.

 

[Rin_Rokudo]

You have awoken a monster.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Bleach characters are not planet level.That is a wank that should be ban to discuss ever again in vs battle wiki. Didn't Hagoromo became the Ten-Tails Jinchuriki of a complete Ten-Tails that can destroy a planet? So yeah Yhwach gets smacked by Hagoromo.