(Gurren Lagann 1-A/ H1-A+ upgrade) Don’t believe in yourself. Believe in the upgrade that believes in you!

[Wankbreaker]

From this page. So on one hand, TTGL using R>F for their analogy for dimensions would disqualify it from 1-A.

TTGL isn’t using it as an analogy though,because it is a literal work of fiction that is being constructed.

 

[StrymULTRA]

TTGL isn’t using it as an analogy though,because it is a literal work of fiction that is being constructed.

Pretty sure that equating Lower Dimensions to Fictional Works is still an analogy.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Pretty sure that equating Lower Dimensions to Fictional Works is still an analogy.

Except it’s the other way around from the disqualifier in the blog.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Except it’s the other way around from the disqualifier in the blog.

The very fact the things are equated is a disqualifier tbh.

 

[Wankbreaker]

The very fact the things are equated is a disqualifier tbh.

. Broadly speaking, it ought to be reasonably clear that the higher world views the lower one as something insubstantial relative to itself, or in other words, that the Reality/Fiction relationship be meant as relatively literal.

yea I think it’s pretty literal here.

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

https://mediag.bunka.go.jp/article/article-15013/

"The interpretation of the multiverse has advanced so rapidly in the last few decades that when we were children, it was only 4-Dimensional, but now it is said to be 11-Dimensional."

This is what Nakashima said regarding the 11D stuff. He's saying that the understanding of the multiverse advanced with time from when they were kids; 11D has never been the hard limit and instead there are at least 11D and even more so as more information is discovered about the cosmos.

So with all that said, the Anti-Spiral being located between the 10th and 11th dimensions doesn't negate the fact that there are higher dimensions. To make an example using another work, there's the Living Tribunal and Eternity having a conversation in 16D: despite having it in 16D, that's not decided as the limit for Marvel despite knowing that dimensions exist for them as well.

Nakashima, the person whose word we're taking, also wrote the Otoko series of drama CDs with the 20D statement regarding Avant Simon's Infinity Big Monster. So there's that as well.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Disagree fra

 

[Robo432343]

Ong
There is an entire blog that explains how the verse caps at 11-D

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

Ong
There is an entire blog that explains how the verse caps at 11-D

And now there's a new blog explaining that that's not the case. Besides, what WoG said doesn't even limit Gurren Lagann at 11D; Nakashima was saying that the understanding of the multiverse evolves with time. He's saying that there are at least 11D now.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Ong
There is an entire blog that explains how the verse caps at 11-D

my blud ignored how that is blatantly false, even if you disagree with the 1-A meta

“It caps at 11D” is a non argument
also how does an 11D character have no concept of size or time, like seriously, think ab that

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

also how does an 11D character have no concept of size or time, like seriously, think ab that

Bad writing.

 

[StrymULTRA]

• No concept of size
• Has a stated measurement
• Galaxies are still roughly comparable to it

ROLF

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

• No concept of size
• Has a stated measurement
• Galaxies are still roughly comparable to it

ROLF

Peak Shonen writing.

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

• No concept of size
• Has a stated measurement
• Galaxies are still roughly comparable to it

ROLF

Okay, where's the stated measurement? Please post it.

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

Bad writing.

No offense but this is not a legitimate reason to dismiss any feat.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

The Irony of OP's username...

Either way, I hard disagree with this for reasons already stated above repeatedly.

 

[Livinaa]

This thread should be locked and put into queue. Let the staff handle the thread.

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

The Irony of OP's username...

Either way, I hard disagree with this for reasons already stated above repeatedly.

Excuse me, but what do you mean "repeatedly?" I ask it because no one has bothered to address the claims, the new evidence, nor the fact that Nakashima is the WoG source and the writer/creator of the Otoko series of Drama CDs.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Okay, where's the stated measurement? Please post it.

Sure.

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

Sure.

Okay, let's see the translation...

The second half of "Gurren Lagann" overwhelms viewers with an intense driving feeling but the scale of the Gurren Lagann series has been on a many viewer's minds. If the size of "Lagann" is approximately 1 meter and and "Gurren Lagann" is about 5 meters then it follows that the figures below are rough estimates. However, because Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a materialized thought, it's size is impossible to calculate (It doesn't exactly exist in the physical world.). Use this as only a guide so you can grasp the magnitude of these sizes. When comparing the first Gurren Lagann and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is about 1025 times larger or 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times larger (In the "Gurren Lagann" style it's multiplied by 10.). It could be said that this size is truly unimaginable.

It's not an exact size, but just a rough guide so people can grasp it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Okay, let's see the translation...



It's not an exact size, but just a rough guide so people can grasp it.

The very fact it's still scaled to a galaxy in the same way the other forms are scaled to irl things debunks it being infinitely sized. Unless all of these are 1-A too...

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

The very fact it's still scaled to a galaxy in the same way the other forms are scaled to irl things debunks it being infinitely sized. Unless all of these are 1-A too...

Again, it's a rough guide. Focusing entirely on visuals here is kind of flimsy when we, to give an example, have YHVH's dimension in Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse have stars and a galaxy at minimum inside of it. Unless we want to downgrade SMT to 4-A to 3-C now, the same case should apply to Gurren Lagann thanks to context.

Also, isn't that what Brane cosmology is: each dimension being infinitely bigger than the last?

 

[Tdjwo]

Nah OP is getting stomped

 

[StrymULTRA]

Again, it's a rough guide. Focusing entirely on visuals here is kind of flimsy when we, to give an example, have YHVH's dimension in Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse have stars and a galaxy at minimum inside of it. Unless we want to downgrade SMT to 4-A to 3-C now, the same case should apply to Gurren Lagann thanks to context.

False equivalence as containing stars and galaxies does not mean that you cannot be infinite sized.

Also, isn't that what Brane cosmology is: each dimension being infinitely bigger than the last?

Cough Gravity Falls Cough.

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

False equivalence as containing stars and galaxies does not mean that you cannot be infinite sized.

Not going to lie, you just shot yourself in the foot here. By your logic, the Super Spiral Space containing galaxies doesn't mean that the Anti-Spiral and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann cannot be infinite in size.

Also, that wasn't what you said considering you're using what's basically a rough guide that's not meant to be taken literally when it comes to TTGL as your base of argument that the mech cannot be infinite in size.

Unless I'm missing something here...

 

[StrymULTRA]

Not going to lie, you just shot yourself in the foot here. By your logic, the Super Spiral Space containing galaxies doesn't mean that the Anti-Spiral and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann cannot be infinite in size.

Just stop... you're embarassing yourself.

Also, that wasn't what you said considering you're using what's basically a rough guide that's not meant to be taken literally when it comes to TTGL as your base of argument that the mech cannot be infinite in size.

I mean we humans cannot comprehend numbers that big, this is why it's a rough approximation, which wouldn't even be rough if it's so inaccurate as you claim.

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

Just stop... you're embarassing yourself.


I mean we humans cannot comprehend numbers that big, this is why it's a rough approximation, which wouldn't even be rough if it's so inaccurate as you claim.

What's your point there, exactly? They're in Super Spiral Space, meaning those galaxies aren't the same size as our normal ones.

You also haven't addressed saying something I never claimed: that you can't be infinite in size if it has stars or galaxies in it.

And yet the translation I posted said that since Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a being formed from thought, it's completely impossible to measure and that the "galaxy" size is just there for human comprehension, not that it's the actual size.


Anyway, here's more:

Nia enters the cockpit of Gurren Lagann with Simon.
Each Lagann merged into Gurren Lagann.
It was anger. It was sadness. It was compassion. It was every emotion one could think of.t was anger. It was sadness. It was compassion. It was every emotion one could think of.
The feelings that each of us had in our respective universes appeared in the form of a drill, breaking through the wall.
It was appearing in the form of two shapes and sizes, and they became one.
If you have no choice but to fight, do not hesitate.
We are not afraid to ask for power.
If there's a wall, we'll hit and break it, if there's no way, we'll make it with our own hands!
-No, more.
Breaks through cause, effect and fate, scream cry of life resounds in the galaxy!
-Still, more.
Engrave the feelings of a friend in this body, and turn infinite darkness into light!
-That's it.
Greater powerful than stars and galaxies.
Greater power than dimensions and time.

From the Gurren Lagann novelization.

The figure covered in flames and stepping on the galaxy has been witnessed beyond dimensions.

From Final Drill.

To everyone's surprise, the Spirals from other galaxies all sent cheers of joy to Earth after Simon's victory. It seems that the Spirals on various planets had been imprisoned by the Anti-Spirals, just like on Earth.
The time-space transfer bypass created by the battle between Gurren Lagann and the Granzeboma connected not only Earth but also other planets.
I had a lot of friends across the stars in the galaxy. It was a pleasant surprise.

From the novelization.

 

[StrymULTRA]

What's your point there, exactly? They're in Super Spiral Space, meaning those galaxies aren't the same size as our normal ones.

OK MAN, WHICH IS WHICH:

• The galaxies are infinite sized.
• They're not literally comparable to galaxies that are used as a way to give a demonstration of their size.

Greater power than dimensions and time.

Sounds hyperbolic asf, ngl.

The figure covered in flames and stepping on the galaxy has been witnessed beyond dimensions.

Stepping on a Galaxy still means that it's comparable to it...

From the novelization.

None of that helps

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

OK MAN, WHICH IS WHICH:

• The galaxies are infinite sized.
• They're not literally comparable to galaxies that are used as a way to give a demonstration of their size.

Sounds hyperbolic asf, ngl.


Stepping on a Galaxy still means that it's comparable to it...


None of that helps

Super Spiral Space is a universe that gives life to thought, my guy. You yourself already said that the presence of galaxies does not mean something can't be infinite in size, and your own scan about TTGL's size already said it's impossible to measure.

And how/why is it hyperbolic? You're relying on preconceived notions there, it seems, and you're being disingenuous tbh

Again, as a rough guess as per your own scan.

It's just there to show the scope of the fight between the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and the Granzeboma.

Simon pressed the lever.
Every cell in his body screamed. Within each cell a new universe is born. That energy would pour into Gurren Lagann using all his nerves. That was the image in his head.

 

[Wankbreaker]

• No concept of size
• Has a stated measurement
• Galaxies are still roughly comparable to it

ROLF

User above already handled it mostly,but you’re being EXTREMELY disingenuous.
a size cannot be calculated because it is something formed out of thought, and thus doesn’t have one.

everything in the final battle is within an area formed out of thought

 

[StrymULTRA]

User above already handled it mostly,but you’re being EXTREMELY disingenuous.
a size cannot be calculated because it is something formed out of thought,

I guess galaxies in TTGL are indeed 1-A sized

 

[Wankbreaker]

I guess galaxies in TTGL are indeed 1-A sized

However, because Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a materialized thought, it's size is impossible to calculate (It doesn't exactly exist in the physical world.

The super spiral universe is also explicitly not physical.

bruh

 

[StrymULTRA]

The super spiral universe is also explicitly not physical.

AE 1 = Beyond infinite size fr.

Do you read how absurd you're sounding rn?

 

[Wankbreaker]

AE 1 = Beyond infinite size fr.

Do you read how absurd you're sounding rn?

You were just arguing about something who’s size cannot be measured because it doesn’t exist in the physical world, and exists in a non physical space, and can ONLY be manifested in super spiral space, actually has a size. That’s even more insane

"Arc Gurren Lagann descending on Kamina City. (The Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a virtual quantum body created by the multi-layered multiverse due to the activation of the Super Spiral force. It disappeared when the battle ended and returned to the normal state) the people welcoming the returning members of the Team Dai-Gurren. They are holding Dayakka with Anne in his arms."

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah not really convinced by these arguments especially with how the verse itself treats the cosmology, disagree with the 1-A and High 1-A+ buffs for the series.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Yeah not really convinced by these arguments especially with how the verse itself treats the cosmology, disagree with the 1-A and High 1-A+ buffs for the series.

how do you think the verse treats the cosmology?

I stg if it’s the same “caps at 11D”, even though we have other stuff in the series that says otherwise

 

[Theglassman12]

The fact the verse is based around brane/string theory cosmology and the fact that this R>F stuff is based on a 2-D character going to a 3-D world flies in the face of R>F when they’re still constrained by dimensions as a whole. Plus everything else you’ve mentioned that’s not a part of the blog doesn’t remotely help the case for R>F stuff at all.

 

[Eseseso]

Disagree due to antifeats

 

[Definitelynotbatman0110]

The fact the verse is based around brane/string theory cosmology and the fact that this R>F stuff is based on a 2-D character going to a 3-D world flies in the face of R>F when they’re still constrained by dimensions as a whole. Plus everything else you’ve mentioned that’s not a part of the blog doesn’t remotely help the case for R>F stuff at all.

I already addressed the WoG here. Nakashima said that the understanding of the multiverse changes with time, from 4D when the writers were kids to 11D by the time they were adults. Besides, Nakashima was the one who also wrote the Otoko series of Drama CDs where we got the 20D statements.

As for them being "constrained by dimensions", the novelization disproves that.

Nia enters the cockpit of Gurren Lagann with Simon.
Each Lagann merged into Gurren Lagann.
It was anger. It was sadness. It was compassion. It was every emotion one could think of.t was anger. It was sadness. It was compassion. It was every emotion one could think of.
The feelings that each of us had in our respective universes appeared in the form of a drill, breaking through the wall.
It was appearing in the form of two shapes and sizes, and they became one.
If you have no choice but to fight, do not hesitate.
We are not afraid to ask for power.
If there's a wall, we'll hit and break it, if there's no way, we'll make it with our own hands!
-No, more.
Breaks through cause, effect and fate, scream cry of life resounds in the galaxy!
-Still, more.
Engrave the feelings of a friend in this body, and turn infinite darkness into light!
-That's it.
Greater powerful than stars and galaxies.
Greater power than dimensions and time.

 

[Theglassman12]

Greater than dimensions and time doesn't tell me much, especially in the case for R>F as this has absolutely jack shit with treating fiction as something disconnected from reality.