(Gurren Lagann 1-A/ H1-A+ upgrade) Don’t believe in yourself. Believe in the upgrade that believes in you!

[Wankbreaker]

Explicitly what? Your only evidence is the 2D world being called akin to a comic book, which however the R-F page already explains how to deal with these cases. It's just the verse explaining that lower dimensions are like fiction to higher ones, rather than telling that Higher Dimensions are actually beyond dimensionality (which would be nonsensical as you'd be saying that only 3D have normal geometry, but the rest not really).

It’s not “akin” to a comic book, it literally is one written with spiral power.

and the moment Team Dai-Gurren ascends past their native reality, they have a bunch of non-dimensional statements, as shown in the OP.

Because Simon broke in the Anti Spiral realm with what? Exactly, his Spiral Power lmfao.

look at the comment above, that isn’t a disqualification.

Please check this counter of mine.

It is literally a fictional work that is constructed. not “like one”.
both TTGL and the anti spiral have quite a few statements in not participating in material/dimensional reality.

 

[StrymULTRA]

and the moment Team Dai-Gurren ascends past their native reality, they have a bunch of non-dimensional statements, as shown in the OP.

Please don't tell me you're reffering to the "materialized thought" or "beyond space-time" stuff.

The former in no way is non-dimensional (as otherwise this guy would be too), and the latter just does not qualify.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Please don't tell me you're reffering to the "materialized thought" or "beyond space-time" stuff.

The former in no way is non-dimensional (as otherwise this guy would be too), and the latter just does not qualify.

tell me how zamasu is comparable in anyway

also yes it is, especially since it’s explicitly said that because of this quality, they lack spatiotemporal axes.

Yes, that would be true if this was just a generic “beyond space and time” statement,but there is also a “beyond dimensions” statement as well, and this qualifies.

 

[StrymULTRA]

tell me how zamasu is comparable in anyway

Because both are living thoughts?

also yes it is, especially since it’s explicitly said that because of this quality, they lack spatiotemporal axes.

Mind quoting it in OP? Because I prolly have missed it.

Yes, that would be true if this was just a generic “beyond space and time” statement,but there is also a “beyond dimensions” statement as well, and this qualifies.

That statement definitely sounds sus as **** because Anti-Spiral is also their own universe incarnate, which is explicitly just 11-Dimensional, aka I think it's just hyperbolic/contradicted from the main source.

 

[Tdjwo]

Yeah, I dont agree with this. Still not convinced due to the verse explicitly stated to be functioning under Brane cosmology. The 11D is irrefutable.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Yeah, I dont agree with this. Still not convinced due to the verse explicitly stated to be functioning under Brane cosmology. The 11D is irrefutable.

as said earlier, using Brane cosmology as a debunk falls apart for the sole reason that there are more than 11 layers in the verse

 

[StrymULTRA]

Who says that Brane Cosmology can only be with 11 Dimensions, exactly?

What matters is how the Brane works, rather than just overfixating over numbers.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Because both are living thoughts?

Mind quoting it in OP? Because I prolly have missed it.

ill cut the relevant section from the OP.

However, because Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a materialized thought, it's size is impossible to calculate (It doesn't exactly exist in the physical world.). Use this as only a guide so you can grasp the magnitude of these sizes.

That statement definitely sounds sus as **** because Anti-Spiral is also their own universe incarnate, which is explicitly just 11-Dimensional, aka I think it's just hyperbolic/contradicted from the main source.

The anti-spiral is explicitly said to be “non-physical”:

“Its form has no discernible substance, has capability to lightly transcend time and space,”

Their power is like the universe itself. They have no physical form and cannot be seen by humans.

and it’s power is only stated to be “like” the universe, as it has complete dominion over its own realm

 

[StrymULTRA]

Impossible to calculate does not mean it's beyond size tbh.

The fact that approximations were even given debunks this already.

The anti-spiral is explicitly said to be “non-physical”:

“Its form has no discernible substance, has capability to lightly transcend time and space,”

Yourself admitted that's not enough tho.

 

[Wesker018]

i feel like Ultima will destroy this

 

[Wankbreaker]

Impossible to calculate does not mean it's beyond size tbh.

The fact that approximations were even given debunks this already.

the “approximation” is just a visual representation, and is even said not to exist in the physical world.

that’s why it’s incalculable,because the size Doesn’t even truly exist.
(

Yourself admitted that's not enough tho.

not on its own,but there is enough supporting evidence

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

i feel like Ultima will destroy this

already has been destroyed

 

[StrymULTRA]

the “approximation” is just a visual representation, and is even said not to exist in the physical world.

Which would be completely inaccurate, if it's literally beyond size as you seem to imply though.

 

[Mizuki67]

but think about it for a second if brane cosmology or string theory stuff actually matters why did honkai even have a low 1-a rating since they also follow the same theory

 

[StrymULTRA]

but think about it for a second if brane cosmology or string theory stuff matters why did honkai even have a low 1-a rating

Pretty sure Honkai didn't have a faulty af "dimensions are actually 1-A" thing.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Which would be completely inaccurate, if it's literally beyond size as you seem to imply though.

Not really? it’s just a representation for the viewer.

 

[Iiliminal]

keep rage kids teletubbies solos honkai fodders


ok just to shut the whole high 1-A+ thing down the multiverse labyrinth possibilities are nomological ones not logical like it being stated to be a logical trap is not enough evidence lel and im pretty sure the writer outright states the multiverse is 11 dimensional.

the argument shouldn’t be that higher dimensions in GL are r>f idk what op is yapping abt its literally just that otoko Simon’s higher world and himself are 1-A
for viewing ttgl as fiction
if thats not accepted for some reason then 1-B scaling from the 20 dimensional thingy.

 

[Woomica]

keep rage kids teletubbies solos honkai fodders

Tf honkai has to do with this shi true

 

[Wankbreaker]

keep rage kids teletubbies solos honkai fodders


ok just to shut the whole high 1-A+ thing down the multiverse labyrinth possibilities are nomological ones not logical like it being stated to be a logical trap is not enough evidence lel and im pretty sure the writer outright states the multiverse is 11 dimensional.

nomological possibilities don’t have entirely different laws,though.

 

[Woomica]

but think about it for a second if brane cosmology or string theory stuff actually matters why did honkai even have a low 1-a rating since they also follow the same theory

Because Img tree isnt bound by that only Sea of Quanta

 

[Iiliminal]

also the other problem is that version of simon viewing TTGL as fiction u can’t be qualitatively beyond high 1-a+ on this tiering system

 

[Wankbreaker]

also the other problem is that version of simon viewing TTGL as fiction u can’t be qualitatively beyond high 1-a+ on this tiering system

it is a recreation of TTGL,but it differs a bit,like that Simon never meeting kamina,it’s not a strict 1 to 1.

 

[Spicy78]

the op's getting cooked, ultima come save us TTGL fans

 

[Wankbreaker]

the op's getting cooked, ultima come save us TTGL fans

don’t lose hope yet fr fr

 

[CloverDragon03]

A quick run through of the verse shows me some 11-D stuff that seems like a clear anti-feat against... well, anything above 11-D. That's clearly where the verse is at, not 1-A or High 1-A.

Now I'm not really knowledgeable about Gurren Lagann... like, at all. But, I can't in good conscience agree with the upgrade when there's a clear anti-feat on display to even someone who doesn't know the verse.

 

[PonePoster]

I disagree with the CRT. Lose hope

 

[Wankbreaker]

A quick run through of the verse shows me some 11-D stuff that seems like a clear anti-feat against... well, anything above 11-D. That's clearly where the verse is at, not 1-A or High 1-A.

Now I'm not really knowledgeable about Gurren Lagann... like, at all. But, I can't in good conscience agree with the upgrade when there's a clear anti-feat on display to even someone who doesn't know the verse.

11-D being a cap is contradicted by 20 layer stuff existing in the same verse, and quite a few a-spatiotemporal statements, and a statement of being “beyond dimensions”

how does something that does not subscribe to spatial notions like size have dimensions

 

[Iiliminal]

ok guys let’s not dismiss blatant 20-D statement and r>f pls ty

 

[StrymULTRA]

Nah is 20D what's contradicted

 

[Iiliminal]

Cope fodders keep rage kids 1-A TTGL solos

 

[CloverDragon03]

11-D being a cap is contradicted by 20 layer stuff existing in the same verse, and quite a few a-spatiotemporal statements, and a statement of being “beyond dimensions”

how does something that does not subscribe to spatial notions like size have dimensions

I mean at best it'd be 20-D but even the 1-A arguments are very iffy, like vague "transcending time and space" statements and an extrapolation of R>F that doesn't really work - most of which has been already mentioned by Qawsedf

 

[CloverDragon03]

but think about it for a second if brane cosmology or string theory stuff actually matters why did honkai even have a low 1-a rating since they also follow the same theory

Also, whataboutism isn't an argument

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

I didn’t really wanna get involved in this but I’m not sure why so many people are saying 11D is an anti feat for like 20D existing or whatever. Within the original anime series 11D is never mentioned as the high end cap for the series and that there’s only 11 Dimensions. The Anti Spiral just hid its universe between the 10th and 11th dimensions. There is nothing preventing there from being 20 Dimensions in total, the existence of lower dimensions does not mean that higher ones can’t exist???

A lot of people are also missing aspects of 1A standards in which higher energy sources can allow for lower entities to perform higher feats like transcending to higher realms or affecting higher entities. Spiral Energy is used for all of those feats, Spiral Energy would qualify for a 1A source as it’s what binds the universe and life together, and it’s what was used to create a fictional universe.

 

[Itzmrbonezone]

The way I see it, 1-A might be possible.

But High 1-A+? No way in hell, not enough context. Too much of a stretch.

 

[Wankbreaker]

I mean at best it'd be 20-D but even the 1-A arguments are very iffy, like vague "transcending time and space" statements and an extrapolation of R>F that doesn't really work - most of which has been already mentioned by Qawsedf

Im checking the faq, and “beyond dimensional” statements at least grant low 1-A, if anything.

The god tiers dont occupy any spatio-temporal points either

 

[CloverDragon03]

Im checking the faq, and “beyond dimensional” statements at least grant low 1-A, if anything.

The god tiers dont occupy any spatio-temporal points either

I'd imagine we apply a reasonable degree of scrutiny to this, though, much like we do for R>F - rather than simply handing out Low 1-A or what have you for such statements.

"Transcending time and space" is definitely a nothingburger though, that didn't even give Low 1-C on its own before the tiering system revisions

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

However, bear in mind that simple visual portrayals of a character viewing the world within some such construct are not enough to qualify. And so, for example, a cosmic entity being depicted as seeing the universe as a computer game "because this is the only way human minds can comprehend it" would not suffice, and likewise, neither would cases where a Reality/Fiction metaphor is simply used as an analogy for higher dimensions. Broadly speaking, it ought to be reasonably clear that the higher world views the lower one as something insubstantial relative to itself, or in other words, that the Reality/Fiction relationship be meant as relatively literal.

From this page. So on one hand, TTGL using R>F for their analogy for dimensions would disqualify it from 1-A.

On the other hand:

The fictional characters being able to attack the real ones without being shown to somehow have transcended their fictional world or having special abilities that allow it by being something rooted in a higher reality. Such instances often have to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis to judge how they are best rated.

If Spiral Energy is indeed used to "transcend" the lower fictional dimensions to the higher ones, then this should still be 1-A.

And Spiral Energy clearly seems to be the 1-A source of all energy and life in the TTGL cosmology if we take this as 20 layers of 1-A (each dimension, 20, being one R>F layer as what the OP mentioned)

Of course there's also anti-feats as what others mentioned... but I'll leave that all up to everyone else.

 

[Livinmeme]

Because Simon broke in the Anti Spiral realm with what? Exactly, his Spiral Power lmfao.

Simon broke the anti spiral realm using Spiral energy, which has the potential to become an 1-A energy, which is already accepted and valid way to become outversal, I mean, by that logic almost half of xianxia characters should lose their 1-A and beyond status. An example

 

[StrymULTRA]

by that logic almost half of xianxia characters should lose their 1-A and beyond status.

Good.

 

[Livinmeme]

Good.

Keep talking like that if you want to have undertale characters trapped in 9-A hell again. Also, Junior you dare!!!