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Grey Hulk and Thing Revision

@Matthew

A lot of 4-B Marvel characters on this site have no feats anywhere near 4-B, but their still rated as 4-B solely for fighting characters like Hulk or Thor once or twice. The Thing has done those exact same things, but on a much more common and consistent basis.

And to be fair the calcs/feats that were used to upgrade the Marvel Street level hero's could be questioned to death and were very easily debunk-able/explainable, so has far as I'm concerned the street level hero's don't have any valid 8-A to Low 7-C feats either, yet they were at those levels are quite some time. Like honestly, you can't sit there and tell me that you actually Believe that Spider-Man is capable of leveling an entire small town with a single attack. Like come on, that idea is so laughable it's insane. Thats so obviously not the intention of any writer who's ever written a Spider-Man comic. And if it was, something tells me we'd be seeing shit like that in the Spider-Man movies, but we don't so...

And besides, blatantly ignoring The Thing's Consistency with fighting 4-B characters is like Ignoring a whole part of his history. Anyone with eyes could see that The Thing fighting 4-Bs is way more consistent then tier 8-A to Low 7-C feats for the street levelers.
 
These arguments are starting to become endlessly repetitive. Namor and Super-Skrull are already listed as Large Planet level, possibly Solar System level based on less, so I can't understand why are so hesitant about this.

Matthew Schroeder said:
Thing has no feats anywhere near this level.
Click to expand...
Technically, neither does the Hulk, he only has feats at or above Solar System level. A-Bomb, Abomination (this one might be wrong), She-Hulk, Red She-Hulk, the Ancient One, Batragon, Cosmo, Count Nefaria, Graviton and Godzilla don't have any either. They're all scaling. In fact, a ton of Marvel's cosmic entities have Multiverse level+ to Universe level+ or below feats, yet they're scaled to characters orders of infinities higher than that.
 
I've asked Zensum for imput. I think that's everyone.
 
I strongly disagree with 4-B Thing, Colossus, Cyclops and the like and yes the Grey Hulk meteor feat is an outlier. Simply fighting with existing 4-B characters who also vary in portrayal can't possibly be enough proof for Marvel scaling.
 
I don't think anyone here is pushing for 4-B Colossus or Cyclops. I'm pretty sure someone already explained that those two will scale to Magneto, or something like that.
 
@Zensum We've already given reason for Cyclops and Colossus not scaling to The Thing.
 
Personally I'm fine with a 4-B Grey Hulk due to him being inconsistently treated by Marvel writers, though the better suggestion would be giving the Hulk a variable tier, since he canonically has it and it'll help better for scaling purposes.

But not with The Thing, Namor and Doctor Doom, since they kinda need to be scaled off independantly by their own calculations (I disagree to the previous 5-A stuff as well). Fantastic Four are somewhat isolated from the main Marvel Universe anyhow in recent times, and even their interactions in the past have been with mostly unscaleable characters.
 
Well, I would prefer more input from the members that I linked to earlier, but in lack of that, I suppose that this thread seems to lean towards rescaling The Thing and Grey Hulk to the same rating that Namor has, i.e. "At least 5-A, possibly 4-B", and to rescale Colossus, Cyclops, Havok, Kid Kaiju, etcetera, to other characters in conjunction.
 
I believe Kid Kaiju's Moon level rating was left over from Storm's former tier. Anyway, this is my opinion on scaling for Cyclops-level characters.
 
Okay. I am fine with the scaling for Cyclops, Havok, and Mister Sinister.

Is it possible to scale KK from something else, or should we delete the profile?
 
Kid Kaiju can likely be Storm or Magneto level, as it mentions in his profile that his monsters can fight off said character
 
Okay. Magneto is tier 5-B.
 
Zark2099 said:
Personally I'm fine with a 4-B Grey Hulk due to him being inconsistently treated by Marvel writers, though the better suggestion would be giving the Hulk a variable tier, since he canonically has it and it'll help better for scaling purposes.

But not with The Thing, Namor and Doctor Doom, since they kinda need to be scaled off independantly by their own calculations (I disagree to the previous 5-A stuff as well). Fantastic Four are somewhat isolated from the main Marvel Universe anyhow in recent times, and even their interactions in the past have been with mostly unscaleable characters.
Click to expand...
My apologies. I posted almost at the same time as you previously, so I did not see this reply.
 
Anyway, the Grey Hulk is officially supposed to be weaker than the Thing, unless he is very angry.
 
GojiBoyForever said:
Then 4-B Thing then?
Click to expand...
It depends on what the other knowledgeable members think.
 
The Thing should be scaled from his own feats or direct scaling such as him defeating Low 5-B and 5-B characters in the same issues of those feats. And him surviving a blast from Galactus described as planet-busting.
 
I do not mind Matthew's take on this, but we would likely have to rescale some of our current 4-B characters as well.

For example, all of our profiles for the Eternals are currently rated as 4-B, and except for Thanos and Gilgamesh, I do not think that seems warranted.
 
Still supports a Low-end planetary level more so than casual Large Planet level or even 5-B.

My opinion on Hulk ratings.

Tier: Varies, Up to 5-A | Varies, Up to 4-B | 4-B | 4-B

Keys: Grey Hulk | Savage Hulk | World War Hulk | Devil Hulk

Scaling with the Hulk is a mess because he explicitely has a ridiculously variable level of strength.
 
That is not "just" what his numerous 4-B feats are at all. Damn near every feat that has been shown so far has Thing matching, overpowering or defeating 4-B characters. He does not just "throw a few punches around."
 
LordTracer said:
That is not "just" what his numerous 4-B feats are at all. Damn near every feat that has been shown so far has Thing matching, overpowering or defeating 4-B characters. He does not just "throw a few punches around."
Click to expand...
Then maybe:

1. Those characters aren't 4-B.

2. It's an outlier / PIS / Plot Convenience

3. It's not remotely consistent with those characters' feats within the same storylines / their whole history.

Like, do you have any idea how generous 5-B Thing even is? In 99% of the issues he's throwing cars at people and punching through walls. We found a handful of feats from High 6-A to 5-B that can scale to The Thing or belong to The Thing and we're rating him there. But you act like me refusing Thing to be rated as Solar System level makes me the ultimate downplayer.
 
I didn't say anything remotely similar to that, and I'd rather you not accuse me of calling you a downplayer. Now:

1. Every single character he's been shown fighting is rated at 4-B. The Silver Surfer, Savage Hulk, Cho Hulk (and several of the 4-B feats I showed for him were done while calm), Red Hulk, Power Cosmic Doom, Super-Adaptoid, Hercules, Namor, etc.

2. That doesn't seem like a good argument considering the amount of times it's happened.

3. It is extremely consistent, at least as far as what's been shown in this thread. There's been literally no evidence posted from the comics that would contradict Thing being on this level.
 
@LordTracer

Stop calling "Punched X who's scaled to 4-B" a 4-B feat. It's not acceptable. Savage Hulk, Cho Hulk and Red Hulk shouldn't be just 4-B. They're up to 4-B making scaling from them rather unnaceptable in most cases.

Yes, it is. You could literally get 30 "4-B scaling" instances for Thing and they'd be overwhelmingly in the minority compared to everything that isn't "4-B" that you can show. Marvel isn't a series with a few installments written by one writer.

No evidence? How about an explicitely 4-B character stomping Thing in the same issue as he does his 4-B feat. How about Thing struggling with things that are a dozen orders of magnitude less potent? How about Thing nearly dying by a blast from Galactus that is not even planetary as described by narration?

There is 0 evidence to support 4-B thing and deep down you know it.
 
I think that Matthew makes sense, and am fine with if we downgrade the Hulk a bit.

As I mentioned earlier, we would have to take a look at all of our 4-B Marvel profiles to decide which ones that would need to be adjusted in conjunction though.
 
While I agree for the most part with Matthew, I think scans are still a good idea even if you feel they aren't necessary, as that's the best way to go about betting evidence

As for the thing, his durability is explicitly far greater than his actual attack, so while I wouldn't be adverse to 4-B thing, it's likely 4-B durability at best
 
I'll respond to all of these arguments tomorrow.
 
Yeah, that's not what I've been saying at all. Show me once where I said, "Thing punched a 4-B and that's 4-B." Oh wait, that didn't happen. Thing has matched, overpowered, and defeated 4-B beings. And once again, I showed several examples of Cho Hulk being 4-B while calm, so...

Well considering you haven't shown any of those things yet and are just saying Thing can't be 4-B without any evidence...

How about you show actual scans of these things happening and not just saying them? I'm not just going to take your word for it.

No, I don't, because you've given no evidence to the contrary. So how about you not assume things about me? Thanks. And literally the only scans posted except one suggest 4-B Thing, saying there's zero evidence to support it is patently false and just ignoring things.
 
@LordTracer

Calm down and avoid being hostile please.
 
Hm, I can see how I might have come off as a little sarcastic and testy there. That wasn't my intention, but I apologize if that's how it seemed.
 
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