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Grappler Baki Discussion Thread

And that the difference was that Yujiro was pissed vs embarrassed. Pissed implies "Okay, this isn't fun anymore, time to end it" whereas embarrassment implies "Oh ****, God of War boi is stronger than I thought, I'll get played if I don't go all out"

The portrayal of Yujiro's demeanor in the different versions is abundantly clear. Yujiro seems way more in control in the anime to the point to which it was my interpretation that Yujiro could've shit stomped Doppo the whole time but used Demon Back to flex on Baki and the now increasingly confident Doppo. Sangan to Yujiro is like a small child doing something annoying in the anime: they match it speed, so Yujiro is getting ticked because he knows he's way stronger. In the manga, Yujiro is deadass panicking
 
Yeah, but despite what Amlad says about the adaptation, I still don't think it should take precedence over the manga
 
While someone like Motobe would never scale to Yujiro because he was nerfed for story reasons, Itagaki has always depicted Prime Doppo as at least capable of hurting the adult Hanmas, as shown with his original bout with Yujiro and his attack towards Yuichiro, the latter of which Itagaki wrote after Son of Ogre, which means that Itagaki still believed at that point that Prime Doppo could hurt them, despite haven rewritten Yujiro as the Ultimate Creature, and creating his dad in SOO as the one guy Yujiro couldn't beat/a true peer strengthwise. In fact, the way Prime Doppo is handled by Itagaki, I believe that either the drunk Doppo flashback fight was an outlier, Doppo was blinded by his pride and didn't realize he was impaired in more ways than speed by the alcohol, or Yujiro was a lot more serious than he let on, considering his dojo crushing behavior and sociopathic tendencies in that arc.
 
There's other cases of anime taking priority over manga it's not like this is a first. Dragon ball super is one that I'm sure most people know that follows the same rule on here. If we use the manga we get 7-C everyone in the verse for scaling to Yujiro and I'm not even joking when I say everyone. I think the anime did an amazing job of rewriting the Yujiro scenes to better fit his later depiction. They edited and redid scenes and fights when they could and flat out removed the scenes that they couldn't rewrite like Yujiro losing a strength contest to ******* Kureha.

The anime changed it so that Doppo never hurt Yujiro, that's my main thing. Everything about Yujiro in the fight from the damage he took, facial expressions and even the words he uses are changed to make him more in control and stronger compared to the manga.

Doppo isn't the type of person to be blinded by pride, he flat out admits Yujiro was stronger than him before and during the fight. So it's why I would still argue Yuichiro vs Doppo is the outlier.

I think overall it's a lot safer to just add a 'higher' onto his AP and durability rather than a possibly Low 7-C or 7-C.
 
I'm of the mindset that 7-C doesn't seem impossible, but it just seems better to have "higher" or even "likely higher". Doppo wasn't even ever considered one of the strongest men on Earth, the top 3 having been Yujiro, Oliva, and Che Guevara (Jun Guevaru) for what could possibly be tens of years. Doppo was likely a strong candidate to win the tournament, and he definitely gave Yujiro a better fight than Jack did or Baki probably could even after becoming champ of the tournament, but actually reaching the level of serious Yujiro? It just seems like Prime Doppo scales to or possibly above casual adult Hanmas or far above Maximum Tournament Hanma children
 
Not really, because those were one-off events that they never scale to again, whereas Prime Doppo had many events and was written to be of this level even after SOO was written. About the Kureha thing, are you talking about the door, because that was left pretty ambiguous as to who did that, and many theorize it was Doppo anyway, which would just add to my point.

He knows his limits and is very observant of his opponents, but early Doppo was super prideful, to the point of assualting Yuichiro because he "trampled on the pride of Japanese martial arts". While he doesn't normally allow himself to be overtaken by his emotions, it definitely happened a lot more when he was younger.
 
BakiHanma18 said:
I'm of the mindset that 7-C doesn't seem impossible, but it just seems better to have "higher" or even "likely higher". Doppo wasn't even ever considered one of the strongest men on Earth, the top 3 having been Yujiro, Oliva, and Che Guevara (Jun Guevaru) for what could possibly be tens of years. Doppo was likely a strong candidate to win the tournament, and he definitely gave Yujiro a better fight than Jack did or Baki probably could even after becoming champ of the tournament, but actually reaching the level of serious Yujiro? It just seems like Prime Doppo scales to or possibly above casual adult Hanmas or far above Maximum Tournament Hanma childre
Click to expand...
No one said Doppo is comparable to a 100% serious all out Yujiro
 
I never interpreted it as Doppo but either way my point for that scene was that it was removed entirely bc they couldn't even think of a way to fix it.

I can agree with Doppo being prideful in himself based on what you say though.

I think a much higher can be a good middle ground.
 
@Amlad

The DBS anime does not take precedent over the manga. They are treated as two different continuities because different things happen and don't happen, leading to very different tiers and abilities.

This is literally just the anime being inaccurate to the primary source. There is absolutely no reason for this to be an issue.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
@Amlad
The DBS anime does not take precedent over the manga. They are treated as two different continuities because different things happen and don't happen, leading to very different tiers and abilities.

This is literally just the anime being inaccurate to the primary source. There is absolutely no reason for this to be an issue.
Click to expand...
Well I suppose I'll bunker down and get ready for the entire verse to be 7-C ovo
 
I mean you're probably being sarcastic but it was not only stated that Doppo was at his prime during that fight but also got way way weaker afterwards due to literally dying.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
I mean you're probably being sarcastic but it was not only stated that Doppo was at his prime during that fight but also got way way weaker afterwards due to literally dying.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but, like, Kureha yeeting tf outta Yujiro and Motobe equally matching him throws a wrench in manga>anime
 
>Kureha yeeting tf outta Yujiro

Excuse me what

This never happens

Motobe also never matches Yujiro. He's just considered one of his peers.
 
Yes it does happen in the manga. The anime and manga are two completely different canons when it comes to Yujiro. There's a reason they changed so much when making the anime. In the manga, Yujiro loses a strength contest to Kureha and Kureha is genuinely depicted as a threat to Yujiro.

Motobe also forces Yujiro to use demon back to break out of his hold.

If we go off of anime everything makes sense. If we go off of manga the entire verse is 7-C bc everyone scales to Yujiro.
 
Anttron224 said:
I'd be fine with possibly much higher
Click to expand...
this seems much better

I never intended for Doppo to scale 100% to Yujiro, he'd scale to Yujiro like how he scales to Yuichiro
 
Amlad22 said:
@KG
It's already been addressed but to summarize for why Doppo got weaker. It's not just Sangan that he lost. He stated himself that he could no longer fight in his prime after the match with Yujiro, the fact that he died also ****** his body over and pushed him further out of his prime.

As for your points of Doppo scaling I'll give my responses here:

- Doppo parried every attack Yujiro threw his way with Sangan and once Yujiro went DB, Yujiro was toying with Doppo, purposefully attacking him in non lethal yet hella painful ways. Up until ofc the chest punch that killed him. Also I brought up above how Doppo does actually get hit by a direct attack from casual Base Yujiro and the attack had him paralyzed and nearly KO'd. If Yujiro had been serious that single attack would have likely killed Doppo on the spot.

- The fact that dozens of Doppo's punches did no damage to Yujiro disproves Yujiro's quote of a single punch being able to harm him.

- There's a reason the anime changed this. I've said before that if we go off of the manga the entire verse would be 7-C since Motobe and Kureha would also scale to Yujiro. It's just wildly inconsistent with how Yujiro is depicted post Grappler Baki.

- Said dents did zero damage. This one is pretty simple.

As I said I'm very against 7-C Doppo for all these reasons.

@HI3

This wouldn't be the case since there was lots of blood in this fight. If the anime removed ALL blood that would be different. But they only removed the damage delt to Yujiro, not Doppo.


Also to address some other things I've read.

Doppo's prime key scales above the current lightning calc as the lightning was so weak to Yujiro that it didn't even stop him from moving and did no damage where as Doppo showed he can stun Yujiro for a brief moment with his punches.

If a 7-C was to punch a 9-A with full force like Doppo punched Dorian, they would get vaporized. I mean look at Yujiro, even when holding back by a lot he could one shot Maximum Tourny Baki and Jack.

Lastly, for the nukes thing. You answered it yourself Ant, the countries felt the need to develop nukes when Yujiro was a 10-C little baby. They were preparing for what he would become in his prime. So a Yujiro from 10 years ago shouldn't scale to the current prime Yujiro that all the countries prepared for.
Click to expand...
Scans for these?

Yujiro wasn't 100% casual, he was at least semi-serious there. And even then, we might as well think Yujiro was serious. What was the last time Yujiro utilized DB in a casual match? Doppo survived many attacks from both base and DB Yujiro, we can't just call them "casual" and that's it when that's never said or implied. What attack are you refering to, specifically?

Yeah but these punches not being able to damage Yujiro comes from Yujiro's statement, when we clearly see otherwise.

Fair enough

This also comes from Yujiro's statement. You see, you can't possibly leave clear dents in someone's chest and then simply say "nah these didn't hurt him at all". That's like if someone bended a steel beam and then just said they didn't hurt it. It's simply controversial and illogical.
 
Been some time since i last readed the Pickle chapters

But iirc he should be about equal to base Yujiro
 
@KG

I'm too lazy to find the anime clips for these two scans but they are the same in both so there's no need.

https://************.com/chapter/grappler_baki/chapter_55

This chapter talks about Doppo's prime.

https://************.com/chapter/grappler_baki/chapter_61

Here we see Yujiro only means to inflict pain when he uses DB. There is no attempt to kill Doppo and he only slashes off chunks of skin, doesn't even go for muscle damage until the very end. If Yujiro was out for the kill he would hit him in the same way he did earlier in the fight when he nearly one shot Doppo.

Yujiro only used DB in this fight bc Baki showed up and he freaked out as he didn't want Baki to see him being matched by Doppo's speed. To Yujiro that's an insult.

I do see where you're coming from with this but we don't even know for sure if the dents are just on his shirt or if they are in his chest as well. We saw in their scuffle before the fight with the "punch that could destroy his heart" that Yujiro's shirt was dented but his body hadn't even been reached yet. Given that I'd say the dents in the second fight are just a repeat of what we already saw and that it's just the shirt being dented.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
>Kureha yeeting tf outta Yujiro
Excuse me what

This never happens

Motobe also never matches Yujiro. He's just considered one of his peers.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. Kureha beats Yujiro in a test of strength and is considered nearly his equal

Motobe puts Yujiro in a hold of which he needs DB to get out of
 
Um no he does not

Not in the manga, which is the primary source that is definitionally above the anime in terms of accuracy, anyways

Fair on the Motobe thing, but that's a clear outlier considering most of his other feats
 
Amlad22 said:
Yes it does happen in the manga. The anime and manga are two completely different canons when it comes to Yujiro. There's a reason they changed so much when making the anime. In the manga, Yujiro loses a strength contest to Kureha and Kureha is genuinely depicted as a threat to Yujiro.
Motobe also forces Yujiro to use demon back to break out of his hold.

If we go off of anime everything makes sense. If we go off of manga the entire verse is 7-C bc everyone scales to Yujiro.
Click to expand...
^^^^
 
No it does not lead to that

Have you people ever heard of outliers? No one except for Prime Doppo, Oliva, Musashi, Baki, Pickle, and maybe a few others any reason to scale to him

Motobe's feat was an outlier because he gets bodied by insanely weaker people. Kureha's feat never happens

Your personal opinion doesnt suddenly change what the primary source is
 
Hl3 or bust said:
No it does not lead to that
Have you people ever heard of outliers? No one except for Prime Doppo, Oliva, Musashi, Baki, Pickle, and maybe a few others any reason to scale to him

Motobe's feat was an outlier because he gets bodied by insanely weaker people. Kureha's feat never happens

Your personal opinion doesnt suddenly change what the primary source is
Click to expand...
Minus Doppo, that's literally what the anime dictates. The manga for Grappler Baki makes Prime Doppo, Kureha, and Motobe comparable to Yujiro, which is wrong considering the rest of the manga. That is why the anime is the primary source used, and that's why the anime with continue to be the primary source
 
Except it doesn't because outliers exists. Kureha isn't even remotely comparable to Yujiro because Baki kicks his ass and Baki is ofc vastly weaker than Yujiro at that point. Motobe isn't even remotely comparable either because he gets stomped by Kiryuuzan, who is vastly weaker than Yujiro, and even by Baki Dou can only beat a casual Musashi, who is worse than casual Yujiro while very serious.

So no, the manga does not do that. The manga is the primary source and is taken with less salt than the anime due to that. Case closed.
 
I don't even have the time to link the chapter but go read chapter 52 of grappler Baki and you'll see Kureha beat Yujiro in a strength contest. I don't have time to argue with someone who doesn't even know what has happened in the manga.

Also Ant brought up a good point about the scene in question about how we were never 100% shown who it was. But I looked through the chapter and literally right after the scene happens in the same chapter, it cuts to Tokugawa telling Baki that he has a special opponent for him to face. So it's very heavily implied that the person who outmuscled Yujiro is Kureha since we know the opponent Toku was referring to was Kureha
 
Yeah, that's the feat where we have 0 clue who did it, and it literally cannot be Kureha because Baki beats the shit outta him.
 
Funny how the anime doesn't have any of these outliers and is generally way more consistent.

I guess that's why we use it was the primary source
 
In the manga they are not outliers, that's the issue. There's a reason the anime changed or removed all these scenes like I've been saying.
 
Amlad22 said:
In the manga they are not outliers, that's the issue. There's a reason the anime changed or removed all these scenes like I've been saying.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my line of thinking is that since Yujiro is consistently being challenged by high tier Maximum Tournament level fighters, the original manga's continuity has him at that level. Doppo hurting him, Kureha shocking and overpowering him, Motobe forcing him to use DB, etc. That is all consistent with his depiction as well.

In the anime, not only did they remove all of these elements, but their removal better fits Yujiro protrayal as now being so far above Maximum high tiers, he can casually match Doppo in base form, only getting ticked off by things that seemed to genuinely shock, dare I say frighten him in the manga
 
Show me where the secondary source was stated by WoG to be more consistent than the primary one. Until then, you are objectively wrong.

How exactly is someone who gets defeated by Baki, who is rather low-tier at that point, scaling to Yujiro NOT an outlier? By that logic, nothing is an outlier, which is obviously not the case.

I've already given explanations as to why those feats don't create issues if you understand that wiki standards exist, it's just that you don't seem to want to listen to them. I don't know what I expected of the crowd that literally gave Baki Intangibility for dodging well, but meh.
 
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