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Grappler Baki Discussion Thread

The anime is non-canon, we cannot use it just because it would be more convenient. The anime wasn't worked on by the Mangaka and had zero influence over it, ergo the Manga takes top priority. That'd be no different than me using the anime for just about any manga.
 
Listen, if you two wanna make a CRT to upgrade the entire verse to 7-C go wild. I won't stop you. But I can tell you that the original grappler Baki manga is not consistent with the later depictions of Yujiro that Itagaki decided to go with.

It's very simple, originally Yujiro was never meant to be an unstoppable demon, this was only decided later on near the end of Grappler Baki and into NGB. You can literally read the series yourself and see the changes become apparently clear. The anime had the benefit of seeing the direction Itagaki was going with Yujiro so it's no wonder they changed so much. And I would specifically like to iterate again how much they changed. Multiple crucial scenes from the manga were edited or completely removed to better fit the later depiction of Yujiro. You can't just say it's a coincidence when every single inconsistent scene from the manga was edited or removed.
 
Well, thankfully that is not what either of us even remotely intend. Stop putting words in my mouth.

This is objectively wrong because he is repeatedly stated to be the strongest thing in the world multiple times before he even appears. Literally no one but Prime Doppo had even the slighting twinge of a chance against him, discounting obvious outliers and what is literally headcanon on your part. Everything after this is 100% headcanon.
 
Calm down my dude, I was giving you an option based on what you were arguing.

In the manga it isn't an outlier. What about that is so hard to get? An outlier is no longer an outlier when it happens half a dozen times. Yujiro is matched and damaged and genuinely given a tough time on multiple occasions in the manga. In the manga yujiro was not the godlike character he ended up becoming. There is no headcanon. It's just looking at the manga and anime and seeing everything that was changed. This is so simple I'm not sure what isn't getting across.
 
I literally stated that """"""""Kureha""""""""" and Motobe's feats are outliers. There is literally no way for everyone to scale to Yujiro if those are outliers.

Outliers aren't a canon thing in most media, Amlad. Most authors don't comb through their earlier works and say "this feat doesn't count because it was more than I intended." Outliers are entirely something that the wiki applies to characters, otherwise we'd have most Marvel guys at 1-A scaling to Iceman and no one would care. What is your proof for Yujiro "not being treated as the godlike character he ended up becoming" when Strydam literally goes "Yujiro could kick your ass even if he was blind" to Baki and is repeatedly stated by Baki, who has taken hits from him, to be the strongest man in the world.

So yes, what you are saying is 100%, irrefutably headcanon. You can claim it isn't all you want, but that's not going to change how literally nothing you've said is backed up by the series you claim it applies to.
 
???????

I don't even know if you are listening to the things you're saying. Yujiro was very clearly changed to be a more unstoppable and untouchable character. Everyone can see that because it's obvious. There's no point in going on when you won't listen to reason.
 
Amlad22 said:
I don't even have the time to link the chapter but go read chapter 52 of grappler Baki and you'll see Kureha beat Yujiro in a strength contest. I don't have time to argue with someone who doesn't even know what has happened in the manga.
Also Ant brought up a good point about the scene in question about how we were never 100% shown who it was. But I looked through the chapter and literally right after the scene happens in the same chapter, it cuts to Tokugawa telling Baki that he has a special opponent for him to face. So it's very heavily implied that the person who outmuscled Yujiro is Kureha since we know the opponent Toku was referring to was Kureha
Click to expand...
But Yujiro thinks it could be Doppo, and it would be the only time Kureha did anything on that level.

Also it's never implied Yujiro was putting any power behind the knob or even twisting it. The mystery "twister" started twisting it as soon as Yujiro put his hand on the knob, and the only arm movement he gave was from the knob turning his arm, as well as him only being surprised once and amused the rest of the time, with the only time he was angry/serious was when the assailant ran before he could be cought.
 
After seeing what Kureha did to the tiger for Doppo, I think it was Kureha who did the handle twisting, but my previous point remains unaffected.
 
It all depends on how we end up treating the lightning calc like Baki is saying. If it ends up being too hard to find a good method we'll likely just use the energy of a lightning bolt and downgrade them to 8-C.
 
KGiffoni said:
I really think what Baki and Yujiro have is limited subjective reality + illusion creation, not sense manip. Since the time we have first debated this i've remembered lots of occasions where Baki has managed to do lots of real stuff with his imagination.
By instance, there's that feat where his imaginary Yujiro literally does a crater and not only that also manages to do a miniature earthquake that i calced.

There's also that time where Baki's imaginary giant praying mantis also did a crater when fighting Baki.

And i'm sure that if someone took more time to search there would be more feats like that, aside from all the stuff we already remember clearly. On top of that, i feel like the few times the author has described the workings of this ability he always refered more to "imaginary" and "not real" than "senses" and "feelings".
Click to expand...
Thoughts on this?
 
It's pretty clearly not real considering the whole

Katsumi blows up his arm and literally goes "what was i thinking, this isnt a whip."

Thing

On top of it being stated to be real around as many times as it's stated or demonstrated to be fake
 
Could it be that Hanma's can do it differently? Baki was able to not only attack Yujiro with his Willpower Ghost, but Yuichiro made an Astral Projection of himself just to cheer Baki on
 
>Baki attacked Yujiro with his willpower ghost

He pretty clearly didn t considering the completely lack of any impact from the apparent attack. That's just Baki's imagination stuff working on Yujiro, which it is shown to at several other points in that fight.

>Yuichiro made an astral projection of himself just to cheer Baki on

Ok what. That is blatant headcanon. Nothing about that scene implies anything like that.
 
Yujiro stated that the damage Baki was causing to the area around them was greater than what should normally be possible. So that's something to note

Also Yuichiro did make an astral projection, look at chapter 285 of Son of Ogre.
 
Dude I don't know what your hang-up about headcanon is, but both are not only displayed clearly in the manga, but both are accepted on site...
 
I do remember the whole AoE thing, and i do believe that Yuichiro did project something. What i disagree with was him doing it via a power he doesn't have to make a power whose fakeness is a major plot point not fake.

Show me where it was accepted that Yuichiro used a power he was never stated to have to project please
 
Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Ogre Physiology, Enhanced Sixth, Martial Artist, Aura Intimidatio, Astral Projection (Manifested his spirit to speak to Yujiro and Baki during their fight), Statistics Amplification (Via Demon Back), Body Control, Analytical Predictio and Information Analysis(Can tell how powerful someone is and what fighting style they use by observing their outward/physical appearance)

Also, to clarify, the decision of Baki's projection is a projection of will (which also revived him when Gaia killed him, showing another instance of physical interaction). I believe Yuichiro's was decided to be Astral Projection because he had been dead for presumably many years, and his body was nowhere in sight
 
Except that was literally just Baki having an out-of-body experience, in the Gaia case, and the one he did during the Yujiro fight was just an illusion because it did nothing.

I don't deny that Yuichiro was probably dead and manifested his spirit, that's pretty much the standard response for that. What I do deny is him doing so through the imagination powers, which he has never, ever been shown to have and there is absolutely no evidence for him to have it either, and then this somehow making a power whose fakeness, considering how it being fake is the entire reason Katsumi lost his arm and got Retsu's later on, was a major plot point real.

So, as far as I can tell, you want the imagination stuff to be real because of

  • what you think Yuichiro did with an ability he doesn't have
  • what you think was the explanation for Baki reviving himself from an oob experience
  • and a ******* lie, the Yujiro instance
why exactly is this being considered again?
 
1) Never said Yuichiro had imagination style, not once. What I said is that he has projections as well, which he does. I even outlined that they were due to different thinks

2) He literally dies, has the oob experience (the projection) and flies back into his body, causing him to headbutt Gaia

3) There is quite literally an impact when Baki kicks him, so... https://i.imgur.com/px2xEX1.jpg
 
Then what exactly is your point, because this entire discussion has been on imagination style

That doesn't make it not an oob experience and you need to prove that he did it with imagination arts

Yeah, there's absolutely no injury, no movement from Yujiro, nothing at all. Even in the scan you posted, the crowd doesn't see anything.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
Then what exactly is your point, because this entire discussion has been on imagination style
That doesn't make it not an oob experience and you need to prove that he did it with imagination arts

Yeah, there's absolutely no injury, no movement from Yujiro, nothing at all. Even in the scan you posted, the crowd doesn't see anything.
Click to expand...
Just that projection in general isn't unheard of in Baki, I misunderstood that this was strictly in reference to Imagine Style

Its not Imagine Style, Baki invents Imagine Style at the SoO, it's just some weird thing that apparently allows him to resurrect himself via his will to not be defeated. Imagine Style is deemed Illusion Creation on Baki's page, this is considered Willpower Projection

After taking the very best Baki has, Yujiro has a couple of scratches. This is the hit of a projection from a Baki on the verge of passing out from muscle fatigue. The crowd is reacting in the background and at the bottom. Yujiro even says Baki hit him with nothing more than the desire to do it. I don't think this Imagine Style, I think it's more akin to Baki's oob ghost shit, hence its listing under the same power on his page
 
None of the imaginary stuff is real, that's kind of the whole point.

Also Yuichiro is completely unrelated, as Astral Projection is an actual spirit manifestation, and the stuff Baki does isn't.
 
Anttron224 said:
None of the imaginary stuff is real, that's kind of the whole point.
Also Yuichiro is completely unrelated, as Astral Projection is an actual spirit manifestation, and the stuff Baki does isn't.
Click to expand...
I agree that the Imagine Style isn't real for @HI3 or Bust reasons, particularly Katsumi's arms. I think not only is Yuichiro's spirit thing separate from Baki's will ghost and Imagination Style, I'm fairly certain at this point that even Baki's ghost thing is different from the other 2 as well
 
"AiKi'S LiMiT"

Sorry Tokugawa, gunna have to press X to doubt, especially with the ultimate Aiki technique reveal: turn into a condom
 
I fixed Ryu's speed to the correct scaling.

Also I think he could likely have body control and pressure points added to his powers since he is one of the most skilled Kaioh of all time and trained Retsu who has these skills.
 
If you google Yujiro Hanma, it uses the VS Battles Wiki description instead of Wikipedia or the Baki Wiki. We did it boys.
 
Amlad22 said:
I fixed Ryu's speed to the correct scaling.
Also I think he could likely have body control and pressure points added to his powers since he is one of the most skilled Kaioh of all time and trained Retsu who has these skills.
Click to expand...
I think he can have those abilities via scaling from Retsu
 
Spoilers for the new manga chapter below, all who are reading have been warned


That boi Shibukawa is a straight savage. "Hmmm... Aiki and Jiu Jitsu/Judo aren't working? Well, better just use Aiki and Sumo, a fourth martial art I just happened to have mastered!" Bruh fr?
 
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