Grand Oculoid vs The Abysswalker

[GreyFang82]

Oculoid is 5-C, The Abysswalker is at least High 6-A+

Speed is Equal

The Abysswalker finds himself facing off againt beast from a different Hell

Who wins and why?

Archdevil of Greed:

The Abysswalker:

Inconclusive:

Boss Music

 

[GreyFang82]

Bump

 

[DerpCity]

I hope I didn't miss anything, but I've been typing (and retyping) this for far too long now so I should probably just post it.

I'm going to have to side with the Grand Oculoid. I don't know how strong D&D's mind manipulation resistance is, but as far as I'm aware the strength of Mind Manipulation is measured by the amount of people that can be affected at one time, and to my admittedly limited knowledge nothing in D&D reaches nearly the scope of the Oculoid's 45 octillion, so I don't see why he couldn't wipe his mind and senses as soon as the fight begins, leaving him incapable of fighting.

If that doesn't work, I don't see much of a way for The Abysswalker to close the distance if the Grand Oculoid chooses to teleport across the universe, portal to another universe, or even just fly into space. From there, the Oculoid can simply attack him with hellfire and magic. Heck, he could even just hold him telekinetically and use his raw AP advantage (Which is anywhere from 1.43x to 12.34x based on which end of the Abysswalker's calc is used) to try and rip him limb from limb, which would at the very least incapacitate him assuming he rages and becomes too angry to die. Unless I missed something, I don't see how he's getting out of that one.

 

[GreyFang82]

The Abysswalker resits hax on a 4-D scale

Mr. Bambu is the one who does the main site D&D and says the high-end is more fitting of this feat. Also that feat was when he was simply starting, he is FAR stronger now to an unknown degree.

Hold Person or Hold Monster does the same thing as what you want to say about holding him still and he resists those. I'm going to do a lifting calc soon about how strong he has to be to topple the giant he fought.

He resists hellfire because his soul cannot be effected by anything less than a Solar which is the strongest non-deity Holy creature in DND and Hellfire in D&D also does Conceptual things, usually to the soul.. Solars are on a 4-D scale with hax.

He cannot be decapitated, dismembered, or reduced to ash due to Solar's Blessing.

Range maybe a problem, but he can't die from lack of oxygen or food, so Oculoid has to engage or this is a stomp due to range. The Abysswalker can't do anything without getting closer. Not sure what to think.

 

[DerpCity]

Sorry for the long response, I can't write concisely to save my life.

That... definitely complicates things for the Grand Oculoid. Note to self: never underestimate D&D again. Way more powerful than it seems at face value.

I see, so the AP advantage might not even be there and could, in fact, be in the Abysswalker's favor. Good to know.

Hold Person/Monster aren't equatable to Telekinesis because they aren't actually holding the target with a force, but rather are mind-affecting abilities that, on a failed Wisdom check, paralyze their target, at least according to here here. Telekinesis is using your mind to create a disembodied force to act on something else, in this case to grab and dismember... Which, upon doing a quick google search, he probably can resist to an extent, as Telekinesis is a spell in 5e and functions as a Strength Check to avoid being pushed or lifted.

I was a bit confused by the Solar's Blessing because it was listed right after a statement referring to his heart and brain being cut out, implying parts of his body could be removed. Considering he doesn't have the regen to make that not a permanent injury, don't really see how I rationalized that one. My bad.

Would he resist his body being erased from reality, though? On top of its Soul erasing properties, Hellfire in Edrania doesn't just reduce someone to ash, it reduces them to nothing but their life force. I'm aware D&D characters have partial resistance to existence erasure as per Bambu's blog, but the example given indicates the character still gets severely hurt by the attack even if it doesn't outright kill them, so I'm not unconvinced Hellfire won't do at least something to him unless he resists Hellfire specifically or can truly no-sell a source of existence erasure.

That's a bit of a problem for the Abysswalker, as The Grand Oculoid likes to abuse his range against enemies his hax even partially works against. Against someone who resists that and is rather difficult for him to kill like a certain dragon whose page I haven't gotten around to updating, along with the rest of the verse for that matter, he's going to want to put as much distance between him and his opponent as possible. Him being out of the Abysswalker's reach is inevitable.

A thought I just had due to mentioning Xylaie above, the Grand Oculoid can BFR him. When I started writing my initial post, I didn't realize at first that he lost access to his spells when he first became the Abysswalker, which to my knowledge also means he has no way of inter-planar travel without outside intervention, though as we've established by now I could very easily have missed something. While Bambu's blog indicates D&D characters can apparently resist being teleported against their will, it doesn't seem to say they can resist being stuffed inside of a portal that leads to the other side of, or inside of another, universe. I imagine it'd be pretty difficult to get him in one of the portals, but not impossible.

Sorry for vastly underestimating the Abysswalker and D&D as a whole there, but I'm still going with the Oculoid, as his main game plan in this situation literally makes it impossible for the Abysswalker to attack back, alongside the fact Hellfire might still be able to damage him and, if all else fails, he can BFR him by throwing portals at him until he fails a Dexterity saving throw falls into one.

 

[GreyFang82]

So I just linked the lifting feat he did. He's currently AT LEAST Class M for flipping a 350 foot giant demon over, once again this was early into his rampage. So Telekinesis isn't gonna be 100% in stopping him or pushing him through the portal.

His soul cannot be erased from existance, he can be hurt but unless we are talking 4-D levels of hax his soul is still gonna be whole. Hellfire burns on a concpetual level in D&D both for body and soul. Hence why his hellfire weapons burn souls in ther description. Once again he can be hurt by it but it won't negate durability or anything like that.

Yes his heart, guts, and brain can be taken out but his main structure such as bones or limbs cannot be destroyed or removed.

I also forgot to put down that he does have Instictive Reaction/Precog from being a Barbarian. It's called Danger Sense which, as long as he sees an attack he has a huge change of dodging it and still attacking.

Edit: Personally, looking at it. It does seem like a up in the air battle. Either Oculoid lands the BFR or The Abysswalker evades and overpowers him and honestly I can't say which is more likely. How's about we call this a draw?

 

[DerpCity]

Yeah, Telekinesis probably won't help here, then. However, he has other ways of getting the Abysswalker inside of a portal. For instance, he could try to bait him to run into one, such as by portaling to another universe and opening a portal in front of the Abysswalker with a clear view of him, and then proceeding to portal out once the Abysswalker runs in. Assuming the Abysswalker doesn't run in, which I fail to see why he wouldn't because he otherwise can't attack him, another would be to do the same thing, but instead open a portal beneath his feet. Assuming Danger Sense won't let him predict a portal over 40 feet in diameter being opened from another universe underneath him, as he has no way of seeing it coming and can't walk on air, I don't see how he could avoid it. At worst, the disembodied hand that made the portal will be within the Abysswalker's reach when the portal opens and he'll obliterate it as he falls, but his other hand and his body would be a safe distance away as he opens another portal and leaves him there.

I still think the Grand Oculoid takes this more times than not. The Abysswalker still has no way to get around the fact the Oculoid is going to be assailing him from far beyond his reach, or potentially opening massive portals he can't see coming from beneath his feet. The literal only ways I can think of that allow him to get close enough to possibly attack are either out of character for the Oculoid in this situation, such as engaging in melee and probably losing his hands, or potentially lead to the Abysswalker getting BFR'd.

 

[GreyFang82]

Here's the thing, SBA assumes both are able to affect each other from the start and since speed is Equal he won't put run him. The Abysswaker always starts with his strongest while Oculoid has to figure out his other abilities won't work before BFR which by that point he would have been hit by multiple blasts of GTH which is by far his strongest weapon that burns on a conceptual level.

I'm still not convices he's BFRd beforehand.

 

[DerpCity]

Actually, the Standard Battle Assumptions page states "The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. If through this distance extreme advantages are given to one party a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread." They start at 4km unless we choose to decide a closer distance because the Grand Oculoid's range ranges from Stellar to Cross-Universal.

I'd also like to point out that most people in Edrania aren't comparable to the Oculoid in speed, and those that are are usually within or higher than his ballpark of power and usually have magic. Example non-archdevil characters being Xylaie, a dragon who put up a sizable fight against the strongest archdevil and literally made him run, Akachi, an animated suit of armor that bested the strongest Archdevil in combat, and Arundel, a Troll Wizard whose page I haven't made yet who can stalemate other Archdevils. If he sees a dude moving at him with speeds comparable to his own and notices that his mind-hax, which is thought based, doesn't work on them, he's literally going to get as far away from them as possible before he makes any distance. Keep in mind his first reaction to Xylaie being immune to his mind control was to BFR her by making her follow him through a portal and then bailing at his first opportunity. The last thing he's going to think is that he's going to want to take this guy head on. Also keep in mind that even if the Oculoid starts moving to orbit when the Abysswalker's only covered a kilometer of distance (which is generous, considering how regardless of who's speed they're equalized to they have more Reaction speed than travel speed), by the time he got in range of anything the Oculoid would already be at least 2 kilometers above him. Additionally, he has universal teleportation: if he wants to engage through portals on the other side of the universe, he can.

At least to me, the page made it sounded like GTH specifically deals damage to the soul, with the soul plasma and "burning the soul" thing that's listed and what not. The Grand Oculoid doesn't have a soul, so I assume you stating that means it also burns soulless beings. However, whats to stop the Grand Oculoid from teleporting out of range the moment he gets hit with it the first time? You've implied the thing will hit him multiple times, but after the first time its hit and notices it hurts like hell, he'd have teleported as far out of range as he can, which I mention again could be across the universe if he desired.

 

[GreyFang82]

So The Abysswalker does have homing attacks, the only weapons that have that are the Hellfire Hand Mortar and GTH and since speed is equal will move at the same speed as Oculoid.

Yes, it burns both souls, phyiscal entities, and (due to it being magical) Abstract beings.

Now the thing is, if he instantly jumps to portaling himself or The Abysswalker then I think this is a mismatch. Because, yes he can hurt him but he can never both reach or outspeed the Oculoid to even land one hit let alone enough to take him out making it his wincons - zero. His only way to win is from something SO out of character it's not even an option tbh.

 

[DerpCity]

I agree that this is a mismatch. Apologies for the unsatisfying end to the thread, as the Abysswalker deserves a better match than this, but the Oculoid's keep away strategy and BFR counters him incredibly hard here.

 

[GreyFang82]

Yeah, I was hoping for a cool hell-themed match but this ended up as a mismatch. Oh well, thanks for your time tho.