Granblue Fantasy Discussion thread 3

[DivinumAeterna]

So Narmaya is the strongest character who isn't a god/has divine power?

She's definitely at the top of 'normal' characters (so no Primal Beast or above), yeah, but I can't say if she's THE strongest since there's also characters like Cagliostro and it's possible that Society characters just outscale her by stats (but they do have special weapons), so gonna need a second opinion. And she's only on the level of the Eternals if you discount their ability to connect to the Boundary, cuz in that case Okto would likely no-diff Naru due to how strong it is.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Zeta's strength is debatable the ratings in the wiki put it as likely due to having a likely possibility that Zeta in home sweet moon is as strong as 000 Captain or near it when defeating diaspora.

But for sheer regular human power

Narumaya and society members are really strong
strong enough to fight someone who can copy protobahamuts powers

for evokers there is someone who is strong even without their primal beast like Estariolla who in his sleep destroyed a country and even destroyed all the objects inside his evokers dream
But since it is a dream it is kinda pointless because the dreamer can simply dream them all back but that's says on how strong Estariolla can be

Others would be the Seven Luminaries who are capable of holding themselves against otherworldly dragon but they are on the losing side even the supposedly invulnerable white knight.

the other strong human is the Sumo Guy who evaporated all of auguste's water that the six dragon had to step in to return all the water (was revealed in a fate episode)

But the strongest normal human without special weapons or special magic or anything is Vane
Lancelot has his unique weapon
Siegfried has dragon blood and true dragon relations
Percival is like Vane but also more on leadership and uses magic

Vane literally just stands alongside them even without anything special other than his sheer strength and positive nature and capable of holding himself toe to toe with them

in other thing
Nectar fate episode is a little heart-wrenching but also romantic. He really loves Shinsha

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

That is a lot of many times above baseline for top tiers kekw

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

[DivinumAeterna]

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

Cygames writers don't typically throw around numbers and terms willy nilly like your typical powerscaling light novel or something. Decillion is certainly above anything we've seen but that's just because the writers don't tell us anything about how the top characters and entities really operate, Orologia is more of an exception to their typical writing. It's a lot more common to see texts like this on gacha weapons than in stories, at least. And if you take characters like Lucilius to their logical extreme as to what they should be capable of, then decillion is literally nothing as we have reasons to assume that the gbf multiverse is infinite in size/capacity/number of timelines etc.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Anyone have any thoughts about this?

it would imply that since Orologia said he started working as soon as the world was created due to how he already existed across time already on multiple timelines so the feedback has already happened for him unlike the six dragons that needed sky-realm to mature after a certain time

So that implies that every branch in the infinite timeline has around 1 decilion of possibilities already stored for orologia
so it is infinite x that amount (but we do know orologia simulations includes all timelines so its already 6D x that)

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

I see, I see.. thanks for your answers.

Was more referring to the whole 'above baseline' stuff rather than cosmology size - as I think they meant layers...? Not too sure how that works yet at least in relation to GBF, but thanks regardless.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

I see, I see.. thanks for your answers.

Was more referring to the whole 'above baseline' stuff rather than cosmology size - as I think they meant layers...? Not too sure how that works yet at least in relation to GBF, but thanks regardless.

Well, then I'm a little confused as to what we're supposed to be discussing here lol, since 'baseline' is a very vague term considering you have skydwellers, astrals, otherworlders, etc etc duking it out on the same playing field despite coming from different layers. What would 'baseline' mean? Sky Realm? Creating a decilion simulations of the Sky Realm wouldn't put it above baseline really... it's wide but not deep. Maybe Hizack should elaborate on his part

You also have to keep in mind Orologia is basically more of a savescummer than some insanely broken godly entity who can just create a decilion worlds and watch them play out

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

we are 1 decillion above baseline 6D potency wise that's it
that is if said character is not 1-C(7D) already

 

[Hizack123]

it would imply that since Orologia said he started working as soon as the world was created due to how he already existed across time already on multiple timelines so the feedback has already happened for him unlike the six dragons that needed sky-realm to mature after a certain time

So that implies that every branch in the infinite timeline has around 1 decilion of possibilities already stored for orologia
so it is infinite x that amount (but we do know orologia simulations includes all timelines so its already 6D x that)

I love it

 

[Hizack123]

Well, then I'm a little confused as to what we're supposed to be discussing here lol, since 'baseline' is a very vague term considering you have skydwellers, astrals, otherworlders, etc etc duking it out on the same playing field despite coming from different layers. What would 'baseline' mean? Sky Realm? Creating a decilion simulations of the Sky Realm wouldn't put it above baseline really... it's wide but not deep. Maybe Hizack should elaborate on his part

You also have to keep in mind Orologia is basically more of a savescummer than some insanely broken godly entity who can just create a decilion worlds and watch them play out

Oh is that what's happened?


I mean I remembered that all the reality that Orologia simulated actually existing and held back by Orologia themselves.


And when he failed to hold them back is basically the event of And You.

 

[Hizack123]

Zeta's strength is debatable the ratings in the wiki put it as likely due to having a likely possibility that Zeta in home sweet moon is as strong as 000 Captain or near it when defeating diaspora.

But for sheer regular human power

Narumaya and society members are really strong
strong enough to fight someone who can copy protobahamuts powers

for evokers there is someone who is strong even without their primal beast like Estariolla who in his sleep destroyed a country and even destroyed all the objects inside his evokers dream
But since it is a dream it is kinda pointless because the dreamer can simply dream them all back but that's says on how strong Estariolla can be

Others would be the Seven Luminaries who are capable of holding themselves against otherworldly dragon but they are on the losing side even the supposedly invulnerable white knight.

the other strong human is the Sumo Guy who evaporated all of auguste's water that the six dragon had to step in to return all the water (was revealed in a fate episode)

But the strongest normal human without special weapons or special magic or anything is Vane
Lancelot has his unique weapon
Siegfried has dragon blood and true dragon relations
Percival is like Vane but also more on leadership and uses magic

Vane literally just stands alongside them even without anything special other than his sheer strength and positive nature and capable of holding himself toe to toe with them

in other thing
Nectar fate episode is a little heart-wrenching but also romantic. He really loves Shinsha

Nice

 

[Hizack123]

I was actually asking who is stronger lol

Idk lol

That why I was curious.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

we are 1 decillion above baseline 6D potency wise that's it
that is if said character is not 1-C(7D) already

Well, that's definitely gonna probably limit matchups for whoever fits that 6d category-.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

But, that answers the question, so VERY ZCOOL

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Well, that's definitely gonna probably limit matchups for whoever fits that 6d category-.

6D match is already hax battle anyway so it is barely the potency that lets you win but the abilities

 

[DivinumAeterna]

Oh is that what's happened?


I mean I remembered that all the reality that Orologia simulated actually existing and held back by Orologia themselves.


And when he failed to hold them back is basically the event of And You.

But, that answers the question, so VERY ZCOOL

Okay I'll be honest, I might be lowballing here since I don't recall every detail of And You and don't have time to re-read. IIRC what actually happened was that Orologia forcefully created (or branched?) a decilion actual real timelines that were all contained within himself/his personality, which he had to dip into the Boundary to get that ability from. But at the same time, he's not so above the baseline with just this feat alone because he was also getting corrupted by the influence of these timelines that were trying to break out of his sphere of influence, and were actually succeeding. And it's not like he could just straight up create the timeline he wanted, hence the event. (I'm of the opinion that Orologia can just induce branching, but there's also apparently evidence that he's actually creating those branches instead of relying on natural timeline branching for it)

Orologia also can't mess with the Omnipotent's Laws on "free will" (which isn't actually free). You also have Lucilius whose Providence power is directly above Orologia's causal manip (literally deleted the primarchs from multiple timelines around Versus while Orologia has to be sneaky with manipulating events), even though we don't see Lucilius creating a decilion timelines in comparison.

Unfortunately I can't write a completely comprehensive analysis on this due to ignorance so I'll leave it to Jedi for later.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

6D match is already hax battle anyway so it is barely the potency that lets you win but the abilities

My imagination (of the potential battles) fills in the cracks due to that fact, no worries here

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Sonic vs Lucilius (Real)

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Sonic vs Lucilius (Real)

I didn't know they posted a new video.. found their content the other day, LOVE TO SEE IT

 

[ZERO7772]

How strong is Siegfried? Can't find his profile

 

[DivinumAeterna]

How strong is Siegfried? Can't find his profile

Siegfried is stupidly strong, like a complete powerhouse of raw power, but has the drawbacks of not being able to fully control and utilize his dragon blood. In Versus we see him fight Beelzebub for a few days on end with no rest in wounded berserk state to what was basically a draw until the other DKs and crew intervened. But afaik he doesn't really have any/a lot of hax so he can't compete with verse top tiers in that way. I also don't remember all the details though, you might just want to check out Versus story on YT (I also don't know about his feats in mobage events because honestly I don't like the DKs)

 

[ZERO7772]

So he's on the level of Eternals? From what I understand he's somewhat Immortal due to the dragon blood, That would means Beelzebub simply had a hard time putting him down no?

From everything I read about him he's not around top tiers from the looks of it.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

So he's on the level of Eternals?

In my personal opinion yes, somewhere around there, if you don't count awakened revenant weapons (those things won the War after all) and the Boundary power they have. He's somewhere around the tiers of Narmaya I'd say, so basically an incredibly strong fighter with a mystical dragon blood berserker quirk, but that's really nothing compared to some of the Primals out there

Even in mobage he's acknowledged as noteworthy by virtue of having a Revans raid

 

[ZERO7772]

In my personal opinion yes, somewhere around there, if you don't count awakened revenant weapons (those things won the War after all) and the Boundary power they have. He's somewhere around the tiers of Narmaya I'd say, so basically an incredibly strong fighter with a mystical dragon blood berserker quirk, but that's really nothing compared to some of the Primals out there

But that doesn't make sense isn't Beelzebub a top-tier character himself? How can he fight Bubz if he's on the level of Narmaya or did Sige stalemate Bubz mainly due to his immortality?

Bear with me a bit I am new to the verse and has been playing relink and versus and reading lore nonstop so I am still confused a bit.

 

[DivinumAeterna]

But that doesn't make sense isn't Beelzebub a top-tier character himself? How can he fight Bubz if he's on the level of Narmaya or did Sige stalemate Bubz mainly due to his immortality?

Bear with me a bit I am new to the verse and has been playing relink and versus and reading lore nonstop so I am still confused a bit.

You're right, I also don't have a good explanation for it. But imo they made Beelzebub kind of a punching bag in Versus, like he just never beats anyone. It makes no sense for him to not be able to put down Siegfried (which he apparently did beat him, it's just that Siegfried didn't stay down) when Beelzebub was able to kill Lucifer himself. Maybe the writers just didn't let Beelzebub use his Chaos Matter for plot purposes, since they wanted Siegfried to kinda you know... live, kek. I think it was just PIS. Unless Dragon Blood is stronger than I thought, which I can't really speak of much due to skipping DK events. They basically just handwaved the issue away in Versus.

Basically cygames are Bubz downplayers unless it comes to Tower of Babel story

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

depends on where you scale siegfried
for Versus Divinum is correct

For mobage the best feat of a true dragon or someone with true dragon blood is 4-A at best
for now
since the full extend of Excalibur and all the knights of kingdom related characters are unknown until they fully reveal merlin and the whole underworld thing with dead people ad such.
Some knights like Aglovale actually tried using otherworldly power but I'm unsure where to rate it since we only have rating for the fullness of otherworld as 6D and I'm unsure if commanders weaker than Maxwell should even scale as Maxwell is extremely powerful even to otherworldly beings

so although siegfried has no proper scaling
he casually defeated a true dragon and someone otherworldly being which would be at least 4-A likely far higher
True dragons on their full extent is also unknown and the best feat they have is lindwurm (oldest known true dragon since age = strength for them for some reason) being able to fight Captain after 000 or after he awakened all primarch weapons which is still after his fight with Avatar
to someone being capable of sinking an island to ignore its bouyancy

 

[ZERO7772]

So normally he's around Narmaya's level but Versus had one weird battle of him fighting Beelzebub. Meh sounds like writers are not considering the scaling and the characters.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So normally he's around Narmaya's level but Versus had one weird battle of him fighting Beelzebub. Meh sounds like writers are not considering the scaling and the characters.

that's mostly the case for fighting games sadly. They don't really care much about power scaling except on obvious ones
so they can be pretty grounded when it comes to 2 people fighting with varying level of strength like Narumaya being really skilled and strong and Eahta who have really deep lore in strength that reaches Cosmic level of strength.
and there are like also gag like strong characters like the Sumo guy Raiden that is hyped to be capable of controlling the fabric of the universe by simply using the power of sumo

 

[Hizack123]

Okay I'll be honest, I might be lowballing here since I don't recall every detail of And You and don't have time to re-read. IIRC what actually happened was that Orologia forcefully created (or branched?) a decilion actual real timelines that were all contained within himself/his personality, which he had to dip into the Boundary to get that ability from. But at the same time, he's not so above the baseline with just this feat alone because he was also getting corrupted by the influence of these timelines that were trying to break out of his sphere of influence, and were actually succeeding. And it's not like he could just straight up create the timeline he wanted, hence the event. (I'm of the opinion that Orologia can just induce branching, but there's also apparently evidence that he's actually creating those branches instead of relying on natural timeline branching for it)

Orologia also can't mess with the Omnipotent's Laws on "free will" (which isn't actually free). You also have Lucilius whose Providence power is directly above Orologia's causal manip (literally deleted the primarchs from multiple timelines around Versus while Orologia has to be sneaky with manipulating events), even though we don't see Lucilius creating a decilion timelines in comparison.

Unfortunately I can't write a completely comprehensive analysis on this due to ignorance so I'll leave it to Jedi for later.

Yeah fair take I guess.

 

[Hizack123]

Siegfried done that because he is just that guy.

 

[Hizack123]

Sonic vs Lucilius (Real)

Sonic Collab when?

 

[ZERO7772]

So from what I understand about Lucilius he never used the zero form or the blue-haired form "boundary power" in the main story and only ever fought the cast with base12 wings? Does the game does this often with raids bosses or is this Lucilius thing only?

I was hyped up to read about his latest form but turned out it's even canon lol.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So from what I understand about Lucilius he never used the zero form or the blue-haired form "boundary power" in the main story and only ever fought the cast with base12 wings? Does the game does this often with raids bosses or is this Lucilius thing only?

I was hyped up to read about his latest form but turned out it's even canon lol.

well some of these forms ends up being like future story
the only other ones that has a unique forms that has no story lore is
Golden Grand Order, Super Ultimate bahamut(but was teased in Relink when Protobaha used that same color scheme) and Hexachromatic Heirarch

 

[ZERO7772]

Lucilius with Boundary power on top of 12 wings seems a recipe for final boss.

Speaking of boundary, what exactly puts Seofon on the level of Primarchs exactly? His profile doesn't help and from what I saw he doesn't have a solid feat to put him neck to neck with some of the top dogs in verse.

Also the notion of him "soloing all eternal" seems kinda misleading? He only managed to hold them off for a while from what I saw he didn't "beat them" so to speak.
I would like some info I am probably missing.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Lucilius with Boundary power on top of 12 wings seems a recipe for final boss.

Speaking of boundary, what exactly puts Seofon on the level of Primarchs exactly? His profile doesn't help and from what I saw he doesn't have a solid feat to put him neck to neck with some of the top dogs in verse.

Also the notion of him "soloing all eternal" seems kinda misleading? He only managed to hold them off for a while from what I saw he didn't "beat them" so to speak.
I would like some info I am probably missing.

Seofon is equal or comparable to 12 wings sandalphon based on the staged fight in the 10th anniv event


Basically only him and Sandalphon wasn't heavily damaged by Phoenix while magus and Raziel are both near-death state defending against phoenix and they both can competitively wrestle with phoenix where they actually going more into the offensive

He technically solo'ed the eternals as it takes 2-3 of the eternals just to deal with one of his avatars and he is also technically the strongest before the whole boundary thing. he is just hiding his power. And you.. confirmed this that he can access the boundary even from the beginning

 

[Hizack123]

Lucilius with Boundary power on top of 12 wings seems a recipe for final boss.

Speaking of boundary, what exactly puts Seofon on the level of Primarchs exactly? His profile doesn't help and from what I saw he doesn't have a solid feat to put him neck to neck with some of the top dogs in verse.

Also the notion of him "soloing all eternal" seems kinda misleading? He only managed to hold them off for a while from what I saw he didn't "beat them" so to speak.
I would like some info I am probably missing.

Wait a little

Greatjedi is working on it.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

So I wasn't the only one who thought Seofon was equal to 12 wings Sandalphon after that event..

 

[Hizack123]

So I wasn't the only one who thought Seofon was equal to 12 wings Sandalphon after that event..

Yeah.

 

[ZERO7772]

Seofon is equal or comparable to 12 wings sandalphon based on the staged fight in the 10th anniv event


Basically only him and Sandalphon wasn't heavily damaged by Phoenix while magus and Raziel are both near-death state defending against phoenix and they both can competitively wrestle with phoenix where they actually going more into the offensive

He technically solo'ed the eternals as it takes 2-3 of the eternals just to deal with one of his avatars and he is also technically the strongest before the whole boundary thing. he is just hiding his power. And you.. confirmed this that he can access the boundary even from the beginning

I see, I know next to nothing about this Phoenix guy.

So Sandy gets to keep his 12 wings after the "What makes the sky blue" event? Sandy himself only beats Lucilius with the help of the main crew so he's a bit weaker than Lucilius but still comparable.

So the logic here is: Lucilius >= Sandalphon >= Seofon.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

I see, I know next to nothing about this Phoenix guy.

Can look at the Heart of the Sun event in that case