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(GRACE) Kenshiro VS Cloud Strife

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SBA makes people willing to kill, as literally shown in the very description of it

Bloodlust means no holding back.

Cloud and Ken will immediately use anything they have. This is how bloodlust works. If you don’t think it does, make a CRT to change it because that is how it works.
 
Schnee_One said:
SBA makes people willing to kill, as literally shown in the very description of it

Bloodlust means no holding back.

Cloud and Ken will immediately use anything they have. This is how bloodlust works. If you don’t think it does, make a CRT to change it because that is how it works.
Click to expand...
Musou Tensei will immediately works instinctively, when Ken's in danger. Bloodlust, again, means being a berserk, not somehow knowing what works and using it.
 
Also, are we assuming that they both start 4 kilometers away from eachother? If so, that means Cloud still has a chance at beating him one way or the other.
 
Musou Tensei activates on its own, while Cloud needs to consciously activate it, if it IS a coinflip, I'm 100% betting on Ken
 
Shmooply said:
Also, are we assuming that they both start 4 kilometers away from eachother? If so, that means Cloud still has a chance at beating him one way or the other.
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Nope, SBA is that they start at the furthest range among the two of them, which in this case is "dozens of meters"
 
I suppose Cloud's Death manip comes from "Finishing touch"? In that case, it's a whole ass attack, compared to a passive, at most thought based ability. It's also a Limit Breaker, and Cloud's weakness section claims that "Cloud must be pressed in a battle to use his Limit Breaks, so most of the time he can't use them right away or in succession", so he most likely wouldn't even be able to start off with it
 
No finishing touch is not the death Manip it’s just a standard magic attack.

I don’t recall Ken using it unconsciously tho, I may switch if that’s correct
 
The first time Ken used it, he was knocked to the ground against Raoh, also the technique's name literally translates to "Unconscious Transmigration of Souls" or "Subconscious Transmigration of Souls"
 
So, hax does work on on Ken despite NEP? If it does, Cloud does have more options aside Death Manip in that regard: Time Stop, Petrification, Transmutation, Power Nullification, BFR, Madness Manipulation . Also, thanks to the Long Range Materia Cloud's attack don't need to physically connect to actually strike the opponent, kinda a moot point against a NEP opponent in itself, but avoids physical contact and combined with Added Effect he can inflict all the Status Effects above with his regular attacks if those actually can be applied.

Bloodlusted Cloud could actually go for a Summon, like Knights of the Round, and seeing them being unable to touch Kenshiro or even get erased would give a red flag immediately.
 
TartaChocholate said:
Bloodlusted Cloud could actually go for a Summon, like Knights of the Round, and seeing them being unable to touch Kenshiro or even get erased would give a red flag immediately.
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You're implying that Cloud would have the time to mess up and try something new, when Ken's literal opening move is erasing him
TartaChocholate said:
So, hax does work on on Ken despite NEP?
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I don't know how NEP works, but I'm fairly sure the only time Ken got affected by an hax while in Musou Tensei was by Kaioh, who had void manip
 
It is a possibility. Cloud is a very tactical fighter, contrary to popular belief. He would go for his best shot as Summons are the strongest thing in his arsenal. Not to mention, as I already mentioned Cloud's attacks don't have to land to strike or deal ailments, meaning he doesn't have to get close or touch Ken, creating a safe space of sorts. Though as I also mentioned, depends on how reachable is Type 1 NEP, as in some of Ken's older threads it was deemed that NPI could reach Ken, but I don't know if that was because we're overestimating NEP or the older threads were underestimating it.
 
Twellas said:
You're implying that Cloud would have the time to mess up and try something new, when Ken's literal opening move is erasing him

I don't know how NEP works, but I'm fairly sure the only time Ken got affected by an hax while in Musou Tensei was by Kaioh, who had void manip
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You usually need some sort of Void Manip or High level NPI to hax someone with NEP.

Hax don't suddenly bypass forms of intangibility, unless it's like Conceptual Manip or something like that.
 
Hmm... so Hax indeed does not work. Cloud's best display is affecting beings that "trascend physical matter" (Summons), which from what I could gather is just a fancy way of saying they are non-corporeal.

Not a fan of saying this, but if Cloud has no way of affecting Ken whatsoever this would be a stomp for Ken, wouldn't it?

EDIT: Yeah, the Musou Tensei revision thread pretty much confirms that Ken's earlier matches simply considered it Intangibillity hence why NPI was enough there. And answered my question that even type 1 NEP is unreachable by neither hax nor NPI unless you have feats or Void Manipulation, as Aogiri points out. NEP completely clinches this for Ken, my delivery boy has no options here =P
 
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Ken gets my vote as well, if it counts. But is it valid, though? Cloud has literally no options thanks to Musou Tensei's NEP. If it doesn't count as a stomp. I vote for YOU WA SHOCK!!!
 
Can this be added or was it deemed as a stomp? Ken got a complete cleanup of all his matches according to the VS Removal thread due to the Musou Tensei revision.
 
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