(GRACE) Itachi Uchiha VS Obito Uchiha

[TauanVictor]

Itachi Uchiha VS Obito Uchiha (Tobi)​

• Fight Location: Uchiha Hideout
• Starting Distance: 10m
• Both in-character
• Alive (Sick) Itachi | Tobi

Itachi: 7 (@GokuSparkle, @Peppersalt43, @Nelliels, @Theendzero13, @Crayons, @Sonicflare9, @CiscoTheSoto)
Obito: 1 (@Lightning_XXI)
Inconclusive:

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[noct]

Tobi ? Or peak of both characters so this is the scaling : Juubito > Obito war arc ( rinnegan ) >= itachi Edo > itachi alive ( fight vs Sasuke ) > Tobi > masked man

 

[TauanVictor]

Tobi ? Or peak of both characters so this is the scaling : Juubito > Obito war arc ( rinnegan ) >= itachi Edo > itachi alive ( fight vs Sasuke ) > Tobi > masked man

Consider "Tobi" to be "Orange Mask Obito", with only one Mangekyō Sharingan.

 

[noct]

Depends if it’s Ic this kind of character depends on state and morals but orange mask Obito I think he wins vs itachi pain arc , itachi can’t use izanami , Toka is physical contact he only got contact so I think pain arc / 5 Kage summit Tobi wins against only w BFR other stats itachi s is better . Post fight vs Konan Obito eats alive itachi tho itachi s stamina is weak af casting 2 genjutsu and one Amaterasu he is already dead

 

[TauanVictor]

Depends if it’s Ic this kind of character depends on state and morals but orange mask Obito I think he wins vs itachi pain arc , itachi can’t use izanami , Toka is physical contact he only got contact so I think pain arc / 5 Kage summit Tobi wins against only w BFR other stats itachi s is better . Post fight vs Konan Obito eats alive itachi tho itachi s stamina is weak af casting 2 genjutsu and one Amaterasu he is already dead

I mean, there is only one key to "Tobi" and it encompasses all the feats of this Obito in the Orange Mask.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Hard to say since we only saw Sick Itachi going all out once when he was literally minutes from death, and he literally fodderized the strongest form of Orochimaru

So Sick Itachi>Deathbed Itachi>Hydra Orochimaru>Prime Orochimaru. Which is consistent with a 12 year old Itachi bodying Orochimaru

Meanwhile Obito's best scaling is OM Obito~Pre-power cliff Minato>YM Obito, and before powercliffing, Minato was comparable to KCM Naruto

Sick Itachi>>>Healthy Orochimaru and OM Obito~Minato~KCM Naruto>DF Sasuke>FKS Sasuke=>Healthy Orochimaru. KCM Naruto>MS Sasuke is obvious, as the series suggested Sasuke needed the EMS to beat FKS Naruto, and KCM Naruto>FKS Naruto, and FKS Sasuke>Oro is because Suigetsu said Sasuke had just surpassed Orochimaru

This was in reference to EMS Sasuke, but the last time Suigetsu saw Sasuke was when he had just unlocked the Skeletal Susanoo

Itachi's scaling chain is slightly better as the differences are greater most likely than the differences between characters in the Obito scaling chain, and Itachi has statements in favor of him as well

While these statements are vague, together and in addition to the scaling chain, this match seems to slightly favor Itachi. As for how Itachi will counter Kamui, he's got one of the biggest brains in the Narutoverse. He'll realize he has to attack while Obito's also attacking and set up a plan that'll catch Obito offguard. Perhaps he'll subtly replace himself with a crow clone, then when Obito tries to suck it in, the real Itachi will come from behind and set Obito on fire with Amaterasu or stab him with the Totsuka Blade. in fact crow clone substitution in general will be very helpful in this fight whenever Obito tries Kamui.

 

[TauanVictor]

Hard to say since we only saw Sick Itachi going all out once when he was literally minutes from death, and he literally fodderized the strongest form of Orochimaru

So Sick Itachi>Deathbed Itachi>Hydra Orochimaru>Prime Orochimaru. Which is consistent with a 12 year old Itachi bodying Orochimaru

Meanwhile Obito's best scaling is OM Obito~Pre-power cliff Minato>YM Obito, and before powercliffing, Minato was comparable to KCM Naruto

Sick Itachi>>>Healthy Orochimaru and OM Obito~Minato~KCM Naruto>DF Sasuke>FKS Sasuke=>Healthy Orochimaru. KCM Naruto>MS Sasuke is obvious, as the series suggested Sasuke needed the EMS to beat FKS Naruto, and KCM Naruto>FKS Naruto, and FKS Sasuke>Oro is because Suigetsu said Sasuke had just surpassed Orochimaru

This was in reference to EMS Sasuke, but the last time Suigetsu saw Sasuke was when he had just unlocked the Skeletal Susanoo

Itachi's scaling chain is slightly better as the differences are greater most likely than the differences between characters in the Obito scaling chain, and Itachi has statements in favor of him as well

While these statements are vague, together and in addition to the scaling chain, this match seems to slightly favor Itachi. As for how Itachi will counter Kamui, he's got one of the biggest brains in the Narutoverse. He'll realize he has to attack while Obito's also attacking and set up a plan that'll catch Obito offguard. Perhaps he'll subtly replace himself with a crow clone, then when Obito tries to suck it in, the real Itachi will come from behind and set Obito on fire with Amaterasu or stab him with the Totsuka Blade. in fact crow clone substitution in general will be very helpful in this fight whenever Obito tries Kamui.

Wow, congratulations on the well-structured argument.

This vote will count for two.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Wow, congratulations on the well-structured argument.

This vote will count for two.

I wish lol

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Itachi FRA I guess

 

[TauanVictor]

Itachi FRA I guess

Counted I guess.

 

[Arkenis]

I'm going with Itachi mainly due to yata mirror negging kamui (very weird interaction), but given someone makes a good argument for Kamui> Yata then I can see Obito winning pretty quickly. Itachi's stamina is gonna be an issue. He'll attempt Susanoo once Obito starts using kamui which obito can use countless times. Totska blade honestly isn't a factor just due to the distance it has to travel versus obito just kamuiing it or moving out the way. So Itachi probably wins through the fact alone that amaterasu can hurt him and implied to have likely killed or at least made him take damage. That being placed on him just a few times would probably give itachi the win. I don't see tsukuyomi being a problem just Obito>itachi in genjutsu.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm going with Itachi mainly due to yata mirror negging kamui (very weird interaction), but given someone makes a good argument for Kamui> Yata then I can see Obito winning pretty quickly. Itachi's stamina is gonna be an issue. He'll attempt Susanoo once Obito starts using kamui which obito can use countless times. Totska blade honestly isn't a factor just due to the distance it has to travel versus obito just kamuiing it or moving out the way. So Itachi probably wins through the fact alone that amaterasu can hurt him and implied to have likely killed or at least made him take damage. That being placed on him just a few times would probably give itachi the win. I don't see tsukuyomi being a problem just Obito>itachi in genjutsu.

Why will he start using Susanoo? He's smart enough to know big unsubtle attacks will be completley ineffective against intangibility.

How is Obito>Itachi in genjutsu? Itachi's literally the genjutsu God, he has so much more finesse with it than anyone else in the series.

 

[Arkenis]

Why will he start using Susanoo? He's smart enough to know big unsubtle attacks will be completley ineffective against intangibility.

How is Obito>Itachi in genjutsu? Itachi's literally the genjutsu God, he has so much more finesse with it than anyone else in the series.

when obito starts using kamui only thing that can counter it is yata mirror (assuming it can).

obito base sharingan can genjutsu kurama and Itachi can’t nor is there any scaling to it. And being a “god” means nothing. His best feat with tsukuyomi is using it on his gf and he doesn’t scale to that anymore. And idk what you mean by “finesse”, it’s sick Itachi, he’ll use it once and never try again because obito can just resist it similar to Sasuke.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

when obito starts using kamui only thing that can counter it is yata mirror (assuming it can).

obito base sharingan can genjutsu kurama and Itachi can’t nor is there any scaling to it. And being a “god” means nothing. His best feat with tsukuyomi is using it on his gf and he doesn’t scale to that anymore. And idk what you mean by “finesse”, it’s sick Itachi, he’ll use it once and never try again because obito can just resist it similar to Sasuke.

Or attacking while Obito's trying to suck him in. He can replace himself with a crow clone while he sneaks up from behind and uses the Totsuka Blade or Amaterasu when he materializes

Tsukuyomi by itself is more powerful than Obito's genjutsu. Controlling Kurama is impressive, but Kurama doesn't really have any genjutsu resistance feats, so it's kind of unquantifiable.

Like he uses genjutsu so subtly. So often he'll place people under genjutsu and they won't even realize it happened until far later, and I've seen even the viewers sometimes misunderstanding when Itachi has put someone under genjutsu. Also Sasuke didn't resist it. Itachi didn't want to beat Sasuke, he obviously wasn't actually trying to break Sasuke's mind. It was just to put pressure on him.

 

[Theendzero13]

Going for narrative: obito
Going for scaling: itachi

The site favors scaling over narrative so itachi FRA

 

[Arkenis]

???? not at all a reason to give it to him lol. But yea itachi can win overall.

 

[ARCHIEBLITZ_]

Or attacking while Obito's trying to suck him in. He can replace himself with a crow clone while he sneaks up from behind and uses the Totsuka Blade or Amaterasu when he materializes

Tsukuyomi by itself is more powerful than Obito's genjutsu. Controlling Kurama is impressive, but Kurama doesn't really have any genjutsu resistance feats, so it's kind of unquantifiable.

Like he uses genjutsu so subtly. So often he'll place people under genjutsu and they won't even realize it happened until far later, and I've seen even the viewers sometimes misunderstanding when Itachi has put someone under genjutsu. Also Sasuke didn't resist it. Itachi didn't want to beat Sasuke, he obviously wasn't actually trying to break Sasuke's mind. It was just to put pressure on him.

Totsuka blade only work if it can touch opponent body and how itachi interact obito intangibility?can totsuka blade use spatial manip too?obito can easily escape from sasuke amaterasu with his kamui

I agree tsukoyomi more superior than obito genjutsu

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Totsuka blade only work if it can touch opponent body and how itachi interact obito intangibility?can totsuka blade use spatial manip too?obito can easily escape from sasuke amaterasu with his kamui

I agree tsukoyomi more superior than obito genjutsu

I'm saying Itachi can trick Obito by having Obito grab one of his crow clones, then when Obito materializes to suck "him" in, the real Itachi will surprise attack with Totsuka from behind.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Going for narrative: obito
Going for scaling: itachi

The site favors scaling over narrative so itachi FRA

I mean Itachi does have statements from Obito favoring him.

 

[ARCHIEBLITZ_]

I'm saying Itachi can trick Obito by having Obito grab one of his crow clones, then when Obito materializes to suck "him" in, the real Itachi will surprise attack with Totsuka from behind.

Yeah obito still can use izanagi and trick itachi like he trick konan

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah obito still can use izanagi and trick itachi like he trick konan

But he can't use Izanagi after he's been stabbed, the Totsuka Blade immobilizes people and prevents them from doing any further actions in retalitation. Plus, if Itachi sees Obito disappear right in front of his eyes, he'll know what's up since he knows of Izanagi obviously from his statements as an Edo Tensei.

 

[ARCHIEBLITZ_]

But he can't use Izanagi after he's been stabbed, the Totsuka Blade immobilizes people and prevents them from doing any further actions in retalitation. Plus, if Itachi sees Obito disappear right in front of his eyes, he'll know what's up since he knows of Izanagi obviously from his statements as an Edo Tensei.

Ah i forgot this

 

[TauanVictor]

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[TauanVictor]

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[TauanVictor]

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[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Naruto at the war had to use Kakashi's Kamui in order to negate Obito's Kamui, Naruto has a good battle intelligence and Kakashi is a genius just like Itachi, it's not that easy to avoid his Kamui without specific skills to do it like Hiraishin or the other Kamui

I wonder if it got better with Obito's war upgrades, but if the kamui itself has no differences, I don't see Itachi bypassing it, and eventually he'll run out of stamina

Also, Obito's Durability is At least City level, possibly Large Mountain level+ and assuming SBA, we go for the strongest one, so Itachi will have a extreme hard time in order to harm Obito, even if, and only if, he manages to bypass Kamui and land a hit

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Naruto at the war had to use Kakashi's Kamui in order to negate Obito's Kamui, Naruto has a good battle intelligence and Kakashi is a genius just like Itachi, it's not that easy to avoid his Kamui without specific skills to do it like Hiraishin or the other Kamui

I wonder if it got better with Obito's war upgrades, but if the kamui itself has no differences, I don't see Itachi bypassing it, and eventually he'll run out of stamina

Also, Obito's Durability is At least City level, possibly Large Mountain level+ and assuming SBA, we go for the strongest one, so Itachi will have a extreme hard time in order to harm Obito, even if, and only if, he manages to bypass Kamui and land a hit

Itachi scales above Obito and has multiple statements in favor of him in a fight which I explained in my big initial post.

Itachi has hax like Amaterasu Tsukuyomi and the Totsuka Blade that ignores durability.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Itachi scales above Obito and has multiple statements in favor of him in a fight which I explained in my big initial post.

Itachi has hax like Amaterasu Tsukuyomi and the Totsuka Blade that ignores durability.

You mean this ?

Sick Itachi>>>Healthy Orochimaru and OM Obito~Minato~KCM Naruto>DF Sasuke>FKS Sasuke=>Healthy Orochimaru.

I don't see how that shows solid proof to say Itachi somehow bypasses Kamui, power and speed are different in Naruto, and Itachi's needs the later in order to land a hit in Obito

Mind you, Minato is Sub Rel + Rel reactions and combat speed, KCM Naruto is Sub Rel, FKS Sasuke has Sub Rel reactions, while Itachi has nothing on that, his profile in speed is outdated and I already asked a mod to update his speed section, see:

His current keys are: Part I | Part II | Edo Tensei

His older keys were: Alive (Sick) | Alive (Healthy) | Edo Tensei as u can see here

But his speed section still uses the older model:

At least Massively Hypersonic+ (Kept up with Hebi Sasuke even though he was mostly blind) | At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely Sub-Relativistic (Should be at least as fast as his Edo Tensei State) | At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely Sub-Relativistic (Kept up with Killer B and Edo Tensei Nagato. Able to keep up with Kyūbi Chakra Mode Naruto briefly during fight)

That part is because we do scale alive people above their edo tensei self since it weakens them, however "Prime Alive Healthy Itachi" is basically a what if, that's why it isn't on his profile anymore. He is also scaled to Hebi Sasuke despite his current first key being about Part 1, it's just a editing mistake

Now, with comparable speed, I don't see how Itachi will bypass Kamui, even Minato, who's much faster, had to use Hiraishin level 2 in order to trick Obito, I don't see Itachi managing to do it without a bit of headcanon on how or what strategy may work

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You mean this ?

Sick Itachi>>>Healthy Orochimaru and OM Obito~Minato~KCM Naruto>DF Sasuke>FKS Sasuke=>Healthy Orochimaru.

I don't see how that shows solid proof to say Itachi somehow bypasses Kamui, power and speed are different in Naruto, and Itachi's needs the later in order to land a hit in Obito

Mind you, Minato is Sub Rel + Rel reactions and combat speed, KCM Naruto is Sub Rel, FKS Sasuke has Sub Rel reactions, while Itachi has nothing on that, his profile in speed is outdated and I already asked a mod to update his speed section, see:

His current keys are: Part I | Part II | Edo Tensei

His older keys were: Alive (Sick) | Alive (Healthy) | Edo Tensei as u can see here

But his speed section still uses the older model:



That part is because we do scale alive people above their edo tensei self since it weakens them, however "Prime Alive Healthy Itachi" is basically a what if, that's why it isn't on his profile anymore. He is also scaled to Hebi Sasuke despite his current first key being about Part 1, it's just a editing mistake

Now, with comparable speed, I don't see how Itachi will bypass Kamui, even Minato, who's much faster, had to use Hiraishin level 2 in order to trick Obito, I don't see Itachi managing to do it without a bit of headcanon on how or what strategy may work

That was a speed scale I used. Itachi was blitzing Orochimaru casually.

Also you can actually imply OM Obito is slower than KCM Naruto since it was stated Naruto with nine tails power under control could beat him.

You could either interpret it as KCM1 or KCM2 Naruto, but I think it's likely KCM1 as he was stated to have the nine tails' power under control several times.

Whereas with KCM2 it's more cooperation than control.

Obito only has At least MHS+ too, cause the speed ratings are outdated.

Minato wasn't much faster at that point in the story, his speed was retconned later on. Plus, he was drained at that point.

And like I suggested, Itachi can have a clone attack and get sucked into the Kamui dimension while the real Itachi ignites him on fire from behind. Or he can use an exploding shadow clone that detonates right as it's being sucked in. Stuff like that.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

That was a speed scale I used. Itachi was blitzing Orochimaru casually.

Sorry but then it is wrong, u need a CRT to say these guys (MHS+) are equal or faster then KCM Naruto (Sub Rel), literally voting with that is invalid

Obito only has At least MHS+ too, cause the speed ratings are outdated.

There is a difference that u shouldn't ignore

Itachi had a accepted revision that wasn't applied because of a mistake that happens, the other speed ratings have no CRT accepted as far as I know, their rating is that and can only be used as that

Minato wasn't much faster at that point in the story, his speed was retconned later on. Plus, he was drained at that point.

He only complained about chakra after teleporting Kurama away, after he defeated Obito. When they fought, Minato tried to hit him and failed (At the top of the Hokage Faces), then used Hiraishin lvl 2 in order to trick him on another location

Also, having new feats is completely and absolutely different then a Retcon, his speed is what it is by the complete series' scaling, and stated at the profile as Sub Rel with Rel reactions and combat speed

If this guy had a few problems with Kamui, Itachi isn't bypassing with tricks like clones (Something that Minato can easily do, but didn't, had to use Hiraishin level 2). I'm not saying Obito is Sub Rel because he isn't, Kamui is just hard to bypass thanks to how it works, even for people just as smart and far faster than Itachi it was a problem

My vote is Obito

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sorry but then it is wrong, u need a CRT to say these guys (MHS+) are equal or faster then KCM Naruto (Sub Rel), literally voting with that is invalid



There is a difference that u shouldn't ignore

Itachi had a accepted revision that wasn't applied because of a mistake that happens, the other speed ratings have no CRT accepted as far as I know, their rating is that and can only be used as that



He only complained about chakra after teleporting Kurama away, after he defeated Obito. When they fought, Minato tried to hit him and failed (At the top of the Hokage Faces), then used Hiraishin lvl 2 in order to trick him on another location

Also, having new feats is completely and absolutely different then a Retcon, his speed is what it is by the complete series' scaling, and stated at the profile as Sub Rel with Rel reactions and combat speed

If this guy had a few problems with Kamui, Itachi isn't bypassing with tricks like clones (Something that Minato can easily do, but didn't, had to use Hiraishin level 2). I'm not saying Obito is Sub Rel because he isn't, Kamui is just hard to bypass thanks to how it works, even for people just as smart and far faster than Itachi it was a problem

My vote is Obito

Sure, but I'm also going under the assumption that Obito is Sub Rel, so it's not like my highballing is exclusive to Itachi. Itachi still has greater scaling above Sannin level than Obito either way, so it still works.

My point is that Obito isn't much faster than Itachi or anything.

He had already suppressed Kurama's chakra for hours on end and had to use FTG several times, as well as Guiding Thunder. Even if he wasn't drained to the point of exhaustion, he was definitely well below 100%.

I'm talking outside the constraints of the profiles, Minato was definitely retconned.

What are your thoughts on the statements in favor of Itachi?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I believe outside of profile stuff, yeah, absolutely, Minato was retconned, probably because his feats at that point didn't actually live up to his constant hype from, like, everyone that knew him

Oh they certainly are something, if Itachi was "in his way" by his own words, then they sure be on the same level. My point, however, is while this makes the fight possible, being on Obito's level or even a bit superior on the MHS+ scaling won't be enough if a Sub Rel character had a hard time with, no amount of scaling will put someone listed at MHS+ superior to a Sub Rel

Now, why not try a CRT about it ? You certainly have a good amount of arguments, it might work

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I believe outside of profile stuff, yeah, absolutely, Minato was retconned, probably because his feats at that point didn't actually live up to his constant hype from, like, everyone that knew him

Oh they certainly are something, if Itachi was "in his way" by his own words, then they sure be on the same level. My point, however, is while this makes the fight possible, being on Obito's level or even a bit superior on the MHS+ scaling won't be enough if a Sub Rel character had a hard time with, no amount of scaling will put someone listed at MHS+ superior to a Sub Rel

Now, why not try a CRT about it ? You certainly have a good amount of arguments, it might work

But my argument isn't entirely based on scaling, it's also based on statements that imply Itachi could beat or at least stalemate Obito in a fight.

Itachi is a very different fighter than Minato though. Some of his hax like Amaterasu simply requires him to look at his opponent which would be way faster than his combat speed.

If I do, I'll get comments from the staff about waiting for the upcoming versewide speed CRT, I know from firsthand experience multiple times.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

But my argument isn't entirely based on scaling, it's also based on statements that imply Itachi could beat or at least stalemate Obito in a fight.

Itachi is a very different fighter than Minato though. Some of his hax like Amaterasu simply requires him to look at his opponent which would be way faster than his combat speed.

If I do, I'll get comments from the staff about waiting for the upcoming versewide speed CRT, I know from firsthand experience multiple times.

I understand, the problem is that a VS Thread will be added on their profiles, and use only what they have listed on them, it isn't fair to use non-profile stuff for a fight that uses those specific pages, right ?

Itachi certainly is, but Amaterasu already failed against Obito when he approached Sasuke to tell him the truth about his brother, what are the other options ? The key is keeping in mind someone far faster couldn't bypass Kamui without using a higher version of a space-time jutsu

Oh, that sucks bro, but if that's the case, you could join their revisions or simply post ur ideas, there isn't a "CRT Queue"

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I understand, the problem is that a VS Thread will be added on their profiles, and use only what they have listed on them, it isn't fair to use non-profile stuff for a fight that uses those specific pages, right ?

Itachi certainly is, but Amaterasu already failed against Obito when he approached Sasuke to tell him the truth about his brother, what are the other options ? The key is keeping in mind someone far faster couldn't bypass Kamui without using a higher version of a space-time jutsu

Oh, that sucks bro, but if that's the case, you could join their revisions or simply post ur ideas, there isn't a "CRT Queue"

I'm not allowed to say characters scale to a higher AP or speed value than they have on their page, or say they have an ability they don't, but there's no rule against using narrative evidence.

It's likely Obito used Izanagi there as the piece of clothing that had been set on fire was completely fine afterwards.

Well I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to "join their revisions," but I do comment on the revisions when they happen. I started like a 6 page discussion about Minato's AP scaling that brought him from "At least 7-B" to "At least 7-B, possibly High 7-A."

There isn't an official CRT queue, but the staff needs to accept a revision for it to be applied, which they're unlikely to do at this time.