Golden Goddesses Revamp and slight upgrade (And slight downgrades ig?)

[Dust_Collector]

Hopefully this doesn't die like my other Zelda CRT's

So our profiles for Din, Nayru and Farore are bad. Like, really bad. Almost every single one of their powers have no justifications at all, and the ones that do have justifications that aren't good, like they have conceptual manipulation because uh, they just do I guess, and they're acasual because they were unaffected by the timeline split, the proof they were unaffected by it being... uh... but them having the powers of the Triforce is actually fine imo, no issue with that they just need some links to justify it better. Also they also currently have all the powers of Ganon, Zelda, and Link respectively. Din for example is listed as being the force behind Ganondorf's powers, not just the powers he gets from her piece of the Triforce but ALL of them. Despite the downfall timeline just being a split in the timeline like the adult and child timelines are it's specially treated as something the goddesses created for some reason (Not that it matters for their AP rating) and they also have infinite lifting strength and stamina for no good reason.

So anyway here's my revamps for the three of them. They're mostly finished but there were a thing things I wasn't sure about. Personally I think it's fine but I wanted to be sure if it was fine to scale Nayrus and Farores stamina to din, I wasn't sure what exactly what Nayru creating science and magic would count as, and I wanted to know if them creating everything also granted them something like physics manipulation? Also listed them as possibly having the powers of the mirror of twilight but personally I'd be down with them just not having them.

This also isn't just for their powers and abilities, was considering making this it's own thread but since it's only for a whopping 3 characters I thought I'd throw it in here too. You'll notice they have different stats then our current pages as well. Firstly I think we should just get rid of their unknown speed and scale them to complete Triforce Ganon since, well, he's just using their power. Lifting strength should also be downgraded from infinite since they have no feats or statements of them lifting infinite weights afaik so they'd should also just scale from complete Triforce Ganon. Stamina shouldn't be infinite since again, nothing to suggest that, and finally I'm proposing them to be straight up 2-B and getting rid of the 2-C low end, I dunno why we had this middle ground. Of course it's not up for me to decide that they can just be 2-B or whatever so yeah, that's about it.

 

[Chariot190]

I'll read it later

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah I'm at work I can't read it rn either but im def following

 

[Theglassman12]

I’ve been meaning to ask but I’m assuming the main Low-Godly feat for base Ganon is the ALTTP agahnim feat right? Because the scan here mentioning he transforms into a bat as opposed to reforming his entire physical form, as for the TP feat isn’t that just more of the triforce and twilight powers at play here?

Also the Nayru science scan isn't loading.

 

[Chariot190]

I’ve been meaning to ask but I’m assuming the main Low-Godly feat for base Ganon is the ALTTP agahnim feat right? Because the scan here mentioning he transforms into a bat as opposed to reforming his entire physical form, as for the TP feat isn’t that just more of the triforce and twilight powers at play here?

prima

Say sike brother.
Unless it's the newer quality Prima guides (the guides that come in that huge chest with hardcovers), I wouldn't even look at them. And I mean that literally, I'm actively avoiding any prima or ther such guides that isn't directly Japanese (like nintendo dream), the recent hardcovers, or done under direct nintendo supervision like Hyrule Historia for my own CRT.
If there's other info that states Ganon came back from just a soul, from a more notable source, that should take precedence.
The TP example is def a case of the Triforce at play, but low-godly via the triforce is still low-godly.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Chariot190 I never said he'd lose low-godly completely, him having it via triforce I'm fine with. I just question the scan because it doesn't really mention regeneration, just a shapeshifting ability he does. Besides the scan itself is in Ganondorf's page so don't look at me with using old prima.

 

[Nierre]

Man I'm surprised they even have profiles ngl

but great work

 

[Dust_Collector]

Because the scan here mentioning he transforms into a bat as opposed to reforming his entire physical form

Given that it's his soul rising from a corpse before taking on a physical body in the shape of a bat it'd count as regen since, well, how else would he go back into a physical form (Plus he's in his normal pig state like 20 seconds later fully physical and everything as well) but like Chariot said it's from a prima guide from 2003 or something (I dunno when the GBA port of ALTTP came out) so not the greatest thing to currently justify the regen tbh (We also use the same guide for his disease manipulation, should probably look into getting rid of that at some point) so it's not the most solid source so even without your concerns with what the scan being used says it likely shouldn't have stuck around anyway.

as for the TP feat isn’t that just more of the triforce and twilight powers at play here?

twilight powers no, Triforce of Power absolutely yeah

 

[Chariot190]

Existed and created the world at the beginning of time and has lived in the tens of thousands of years that have passed since

Add an "at least" in front of tens of thousands. Like logically speaking the Zelda world is way the **** older than that, but we don't have a hard number so just "at least".

created and left cracks

They should have spatial manip tbh, but that scan doesn't say they created the cracks.

Telekinesis (Her and her sisters pearls forced the Tower of the Gods to rise up from the ocean[7]),

Is that TK? I mean it's something, but idk if it's TK.

There's a few other things but that's more carry over from Ganon that I find a bit odd (Like surely there's a better NPI example for them instead of just going "the water sage do look kinda ghostly"?).

@Chariot190 I never said he'd lose low-godly completely, him having it via triforce I'm fine with. I just question the scan because it doesn't really mention regeneration, just a shapeshifting ability he does. Besides the scan itself is in Ganondorf's page so don't look at me with using old prima.

Well. You're right. Kinda sus tbh, I was looking at an old Prima MM/OOT guide and they're pretty dogshit ngl.
Though, that begs the question, assuming that is what's happening in the game and we take it at face value, a spirit transforming into a physical corporal body? I'm not sure how we qualify that.

The TP example tho is just him becoming a disembodied spirit (the funny floating head is noted to be his soul a few times) after getting ****** and then just going "lmao im back" a minute later.

 

[Chariot190]

Given that it's his soul rising from a corpse before taking on a physical body in the shape of a bat it'd count as regen since, well, how else would he go back into a physical form (Plus he's in his normal pig state like 20 seconds later fully physical and everything as well) but like Chariot said it's from a prima guide from 2003 or something (I dunno when the GBA port of ALTTP came out) so not the greatest thing to currently justify the regen tbh (We also use the same guide for his disease manipulation, should probably look into getting rid of that at some point) so it's not the most solid source so even without your concerns with what the scan being used says it likely shouldn't have stuck around anyway.


twilight powers no, Triforce of Power absolutely yeah

I vaguely recall the disease stuff being mentioned in game so that can probably just be swapped out with better justification.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Add an "at least" in front of tens of thousands. Like logically speaking the Zelda world is way the **** older than that, but we don't have a hard number so just "at least".

Yeah that's fine

They should have spatial manip tbh, but that scan doesn't say they created the cracks.

My inability to read has failed me again, I stg I thought it said they created the cracks

Is that TK? I mean it's something, but idk if it's TK.

TK was the best I could think of for their power making a structure just kinda rise up, maybe earth manipulation since it's made of stone? I dunno

There's a few other things but that's more carry over from Ganon that I find a bit odd (Like surely there's a better NPI example for them instead of just going "the water sage do look kinda ghostly"?).

Honestly the sages is the closest shot to Ganondorf having NPI, I tried looking but unless the sages are counted as being incorporeal Ganon just hasn't ever interacted with anything intangible.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I vaguely recall the disease stuff being mentioned in game so that can probably just be swapped out with better justification.

Yeah the kid that gets sick mentions that people say it's because of the evil air coming from death mountain that he's ill, granted it's not a solid connection to Ganon but there is a portal to the Dark World sitting up on the mountain so that's something.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Question: But wouldn't the triforce scale to the breath of the GGs? The timelines they created weren't even intentional, it was just leftover energy from them creating Hyrule leaking out. The triforce is outright called their essence at certain points. Surely, that would be superior to trickles of leftover creation?

 

[Chariot190]

could you not just use HW ganon obliterating poes for the GG's justification? HW is legit just a confirmed alternate dimension in the overall zelda cosmology with several connections between the main timeline and it. Obviously cross scaling some shit wouldnt fly like AP, stats, or unique abilities, but the GG's by all accounts scale to that shit.

Question: But wouldn't the triforce scale to the GGs? The timelines they created weren't even intentional, it was just leftover energy from them creating Hyrule leaking out. The triforce is outright called their essence at certain points. Surely, that would be superior to trickles of leftover creation?

If it isn't their full power (it isnt), we can't assume it's any amount of power beyond what it's shown to do as it could be literally anything, yeah it could be stronger, or it could be millions of times weaker, or anything inbetween. Feats or statements work best here.

 

[Dust_Collector]

could you not just use HW ganon obliterating poes for the GG's justification? HW is legit just a confirmed alternate dimension in the overall zelda cosmology with several connections between the main timeline and it. Obviously cross scaling some shit wouldnt fly like AP, stats, or unique abilities, but the GG's by all accounts scale to that shit.

This would be based as hell I'd be down with it

 

[Theglassman12]

@Chariot190 I can double check with some staff members but I recall that only being either shapeshifting or transformation, especially if they don't have a line regarding any form of reconstitution/regeneration happening.

@Dust_Collector the visuals do kind of confuse me ngl, plus the whole transformation line does make the regen feat less concrete which is honestly why I was a bit hesitant to use the master sword as an example for regen negation. Plus this may or may not be one of those weird middle ground feats where people can't tell if it's shapeshifting or flat out regen. I've tried to tell the God of War dudes to give Surtr Low-Godly regen when he phased into a spirit and back into his physical body in Ragnarok but they claimed it's only a shapeshifting ability at best.

 

[Dust_Collector]

the visuals do kind of confuse me ngl, plus the whole transformation line does make the regen feat less concrete which is honestly why I was a bit hesitant to use the master sword as an example for regen negation. Plus this may or may not be one of those weird middle ground feats where people can't tell if it's shapeshifting or flat out regen. I've tried to tell the God of War dudes to give Surtr Low-Godly regen when he phased into a spirit and back into his physical body in Ragnarok but they claimed it's only a shapeshifting ability at best.

Maybe this is more solid than the Surtr example since it is his soul rising from a corpse first and then taking on a physical form afterwards, plus Ganon can't go between the two states at will (His boss fight after the scene makes it clear he needs enough darkness if he doesn't want to be tangible) but I dunno, it's not as concrete as the Twilight Princess scene so it could just be funny shapeshifting, it's weird.

 

[Theglassman12]

Inb4 Twilight Princess has a guide that just says he left an afterimage of his malice and just turned back from giant pig to human when no one was looking

Yeah it's weird, like I said I'll try to ask around to make sure I'm not jumping the gun here.

 

[Dust_Collector]

bump

 

[Theglassman12]

I’ve gotten a response, and they told me it’s Type 6 immortality instead of any regen feat since he just goes to another backup body.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Huh, that's pretty weird since Ganon doesn't have backup bodies but since he was within his avatars body and then came out to take on his own form I guess I can see it being type 6 immortality.

 

[SilentLyfe]

Isn’t type 6 only for possessing someone or having a backup? I thought Ganon straight up created his pig form when he returned to the Pyramid.

 

[Theglassman12]

I assume the fact Aghanim’s body not being erased completely sort of goes against the regen, but yeah type 6 is what I got so far for a response.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I like how my Golden Goddesses thread is mostly about Ganon, I get why since their regen negation is dependent on him but it's still pretty funny

 

[Theglassman12]

yeah sorry for the slight derailment but I had to ask in regards to base Ganon’s regen.

either way the stats themselves looks ok, but I will give a heads up that tier 2 has gotten a change in regards to some requirements and Pein said they’re going to make a CRT based on the series that do and do not qualify. So be aware of that.

I’ll look through the abilities later

 

[Dust_Collector]

Plus this may or may not be one of those weird middle ground feats where people can't tell if it's shapeshifting or flat out regen. I've tried to tell the God of War dudes to give Surtr Low-Godly regen when he phased into a spirit and back into his physical body in Ragnarok but they claimed it's only a shapeshifting ability at best.

This just made me realize that if Surtr couldn't get regen fro that than Calamity Ganon in his Astor Absorbed key would lose his combat applicable regen since it's currently based on him turning into a spirit form for one of his attacks and reverting back to a physical one moments later.

 

[Dust_Collector]

bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Though, that begs the question, assuming that is what's happening in the game and we take it at face value, a spirit transforming into a physical corporal body? I'm not sure how we qualify that.

Guides are considered secondary or tertiary canon. Them being used to explain a scene or minor background lore isn't really an issue, it's more about when contradictions appear or errors with the main game or sequels appear that they become unusable.

But a guide just explaining something that happens to the player isn't non-canon information. It would he more like random background lore that would be more questionable.

 

[Chariot190]

Guides are considered secondary or tertiary canon. Them being used to explain a scene or minor background lore isn't really an issue, it's more about when contradictions appear or errors with the main game or sequels appear that they become unusable.

But a guide just explaining something that happens to the player isn't non-canon information. It would he more like random background lore that would be more questionable.

That doesn't really relate to what I was asking though.
I asked what we consider a spirit transforming into a physical body entails by our standards, not the canonicity of the guide that guide is ass anyway, I'd rather toss it but assuming it's correct in what's happening, we still gotta figure out what that even means

 

[Qawsedf234]

asked what we consider a spirit transforming into a physical body entails by our standards, not the canonicity of the guide

Ghost to a bat without an inbetween would be shape shifting I guess.

 

[Chariot190]

But like, if ya go from your soul because your previous body just got destroyed or whatever, and your soul turns into a bat, and then into your corporal physical flesh body.
That's still going from your soul to having a body again, so is that regen? But he's doing it apparently through shapeshifting? Regen via shapeshifting?
it ultimately doesnt matter because he goes from a soul to having a body again in TP so whatever, but if we want to use this as support we need to figure it out

 

[Qawsedf234]

It would be regen via shape-shifting yeah. Best equalivent would be like a video game transformation that also heals you.

 

[Dust_Collector]

bump

So besides Ganon maybe or maybe not having regen or something even without the Triforce of Power, how is everything else with the goddesses profiles?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think they're fine.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Oh right, forgot about this.

So besides a small handful of abilities that should be removed since I'm dumb and can't read (Like the the cracks in space thing), minor stuff like adding at least to the timeframe for Hyrules existence, and the regen negation stuff since we probably gotta discuss base Ganons regen are we good here?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think so

 

[Dust_Collector]

Done updating them.