gokus speed should be upgraded to infinite.

[Karutobi]

the requirements for infinite speed are as follows "Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly." "Characters who showcase the ability to move freely and naturally in a timeless void may or may not qualify for an infinite speed rating."

1. future zeno destroys trunks entire timeline in both the manga and anime. this means that time and space were also destroyed yet goku uses the time machine to travel back and get zeno he was able to move within the empty space in both versions. (the time machine travelling there could be pis but in the manga they say the time machine has a dimensional transporter so it probably transported to the dimension itself and not the timeline as there wasnt one anymore).

2. as we all know hit has time powers mainly time stopping/skipping powers. however hits time cage completely stops time on the target. its used on heavily surpressed jiren and then jiren literally muscles through it and moves towards hit. this is also supported as not being some kind of outlier as vados states "this means jiren possesses power that transcends time itself." goku scales to massively surpressed jiren in at least ui (lowballing considering he got many times stronger as the tournament went on)

3. in the universe 6 tournament hit uses time skip (which this site classifies as stopping time) on goku but kaioken x10 goku moves through it anyways despite hit not wanting him to.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Goku specifically said he was Strong Enough so he could break out of Hit's Time Skip. It's not a speed feat.

Jiren's power Transcending time doesn't mean his speed is Infinite just his AP. Plus I don't think that's what Vados ment anyway, and Jiren was still clearly effected by the Time Stop but was resisting.

Infinite speed SSBKKx10 Goku is an outlier anyway, along with Infinite speed Jiren as everyone in the ToP saw them.

This just doesn't work.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Also you put this on the wrong board, I moved it.

 

[Karutobi]

no its exactly what she meant theres quite literally no other way to take her statement and regardless if it effected him or not he still moved thus infinite speed i cant understand how that would only scale to his ap since it was movement and not attacks he used to move which he would need to move to attack anyways.

the world of void is timeless so thats why they saw and even if you said it wasnt timeless it doesnt negate that time was still stopped for jiren yet he moved.

in dragon ball strength=all physical stats including speed so strong enough=fast enough.

you completely ignored goku moving in an empty space with its time destroyed in 2 versions.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I didn't ignore Goku moving in a timeless void. It's also an outlier because base Goku doesn't have infinite speed in anyway.

Jiren clearly doesn't have infinite speed. If so he wouldn't have been effected at all by Hit's Cage of Time yet he was clearly struggling to get out.

It's simply resistance to time stop. Infinite Speed is wank and would completely destroy scaling because countless characters can keep up and react to Base Goku.

Don't take my word for it. Wait for others to comment and see.

 

[Thelastmlg]

as griiffin said

moving on the universe erased by zeno is a outlier

jiren trasceding time at best boosts him AP and gives him a resistance to time stop and is not even that good since most time stop abilities work on stronger beings due to they still being below the concept of time

the world of void being timeless falls on the cartegory 2 of a timeless void and can't be used

or else several characters like roshi would have infinite speed and since there were warriors blitzing each other they can't have it

you can't blitz other infinite speed user if you have infinite speed

and if they had infinite speed hit's time leaps and cage of time would basically just be special effects to goku and jiren and considering that goku's transformations prior ultra instinct are multiplier based them he can't have infinite speed on them without having it on his base form which is wrong

 

[Karutobi]

explain how goku moving in the destroyed universe is an outlier as ive noticed this site writes of some feats as outliers while accepting others.

explain in detail how the world of void falls in category 2. (im aware its probably been done before but im new to this site and couldnt find the explanation when i searched it (which i also have this problem when they say so and so is as strong as so and such because so and such is as strong as so and them etc without explaining why so and them is as strong as they are).

time skip wouldnt be special effects this site lists it as simply stopping time which isnt the case he goes into his parallel dimension in which time is stopped and attacks you there.

saying an infinite speed user cant blitz an infinite speed user is completely false it happens in sonic all the time as well as marvel and dc

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

1) Goku moving in that void left over from Zeno is just an inconsistency the writers didn't take into account. He doesn't remotely show any infinite speed feats otherwise.

2) Breaking out of the time cage is just resistance to having your own time stopped. It's not an infinite speed feat. Jiren "transcending time" is just a flowery way of saying Hit's time stop didn't work on him.

 

[Karutobi]

then by your same logic you could say everything regarding jiren moving in stopped time is an inconsistency the writers didnt take in account when they gave him the feat. how would it only be resistance to time stop and not infinite speed? jiren has no time powers and he moved in stopped time. also a flowery way of saying hits time stop is still quite litterally saying stopped time doesnt work on jiren

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Because Jiren has never demonstrated any infinite speed feats. He was affected by the time cage at first then broke out of it. That's just resistance to time stop.

 

[Karutobi]

he did not break out of it he was effected by it until he walked up to hit and then broke his energy ball. saying he didnt do something after he did it is beyond silly. also jiren scales to toppo and goku who one of which was able to shake an infinite space with his prescense the other with his energy blast which could contribute to my argument

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Shaking an infinite space is just High 3-A AP. It does not correlate to speed at all.

 

[The_Smashor]

Also, breaking out of a time stop is just Time Stop resistance. You need to move in an area that lacks time usually to get infinite speed.

 

[Karutobi]

his immediate surroundings were stopped time he did not break out of it he moved in it.

 

[The_Smashor]

Once again, resistance. Characters who can't move in Hit's time stop arn't blitzed by Goku.

 

[Karutobi]

"Infinite Speed (Able to move indefinitely while time literally stands still, or to travel anywhere instantly. Teleportation does not count" did he or did he not move while time was stopped? im not sure what you are trying to say in the rest of your comment not sure if you typed it wrong or were referring to something..which is another thing ive noticed about this site.. people dont explain their point of view in detail 90% of the time which often leads to circular arguments

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@Karutobi

First of all, just because someone moved in frozen time doesn't instantly mean they have infinite speed. It's a case by case basis and in this case all they have is resistance to Time Stop.

1. Base Goku has been tracked and fought by people who don't have infinite speed. If you think base Goku moving the void that Zeno left after erasing Infinite Zamasu grants him infinite speed, your wrong. You basically would then need to give everyone comparable to, and superior to him Infinite speed and I don't half to explain why that's dumb. Or maybe I due because you don't seem to be listening to us.

2. Goku and Jiren breaking out of Hit's Time Stop was because of their strength, not speed. It's made very clear from Goku himself that he became strong enough to resist Hit's Time Skip. Hell you're entire argument fall apart by the simple fact of Goku needing SSBKKX10 to resist Hit's Time Skip yet you claim Base Goku has infinite speed. Jiren is the exact same, it was made clear by Vados that it was a strength thing, not speed.

Just because speed and power go up together in Dragon Ball doesn't mean because they became Low 2-C, we'll upgrade their speed to Infinite. Especially with all the anti-feats, namely Dyspo. Dude is only faster than light by an unquantifiable amount yet he keeped up with Goku.

Lastly, that whole "People on this site don't go into detail 90% of the time" is BS. We've already stated why Infinite Speed isn't legit, you just aren't listening.

I'm closing this, where getting nowhere with this and it's not going to be accepted.