Goku's AP in Early DBZ.

[Amexim]

That's the whole point. I am using the Kaio-Ken. Just using the numbers we have to fill in gaps that are obvious.

Why can't the Ginyu force be Large Planet if Frieza is Dwarf Star and the gap between the tiers high and lows is massive. I'm basically using the stats Goku has to see how the others stack. And it yields low-balls at higher level characters anyway.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

This thread is colossal... have we already rolled over our 500 cap on a normal discussion?

 

[Amexim]

We don't know if Goku can use KKx10 at that point anyway.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Assalt

Only 200 replies so far.

 

[PaChi2]

@Amexim stop it please. This is not the moment or the place to discuss another dragon ball scaling.

 

[Therefir]

Which he never had?... @There

Base Goku from Captain Ginyu Saga have a power of 90,000.

With Kaioken x10=900,000.

He is already stronger than first form Frieza, who did the 5-A+ feat.

 

[Therefir]

We don't know if Goku can use KKx10 at that point anyway.

Goku said that he can withstand a kkx10.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Lets try to actually get something done here, what makes goku in the early parts of the namek saga 5-A? Post evidence without referencing power levels.

Assuming goku is 3x above planet level, what accounts for the other 47x he needs to be 5-A? It's supposedly kaoiken x10, but is it confirmed he could use a x10 kaoiken? If not then this thread should be closed, if yes, and it does put him at 5-A, he needs an upgrade.

 

[Amexim]

What do you mean, PaChi? I mean, this thread is based on whether or not Goku should be 5-A. And First Form Frieza's feat was Dwarf Star level. Which proves my point. But, either way, should I make a CRT?

 

[Therefir]

Piccolo's feat = 69.69 zettatons. Goku Kaioken x4 =278.76 Zettatons. Goku base form after his training is stronger than his kaioken x4 from saiyan saga, plus Kaioken x10 = 2787.6 zettatons or 2.78 yottatons= Baseline 5-A.
Also Goku after his training can use kaioken x10.

@Celestial Pegasus

 

[PaChi2]

Lets try to actually get something done here, what makes goku in the early parts of the namek saga 5-A? Post evidence without referencing power levels.

Assuming goku is 3x above planet level, what accounts for the other 47x he needs to be 5-A? It's supposedly kaoiken x10, but is it confirmed he could use a x10 kaoiken? If not then this thread should be closed, if yes, and it does put him at 5-A, he needs an upgrade.

Just saying, but if you do apply Kaioken to the frieza fight, Frieza does start as 4-C and end up as High 4-C. Kaioken x20, that is.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Pachi Isn't the Dwarf Star level + calc for freeza like 1.1 away from being Low 4-C? It would be reasonable then for his 2nd form and above to be Low 4-C, due to the small gap.

But Low 4-C has like a 50x gap, so how does a 20x kaoiken put goku and freeza at High 4-C? Do i just suck at math?

@Therefir Then he should be 5-A.

 

[SomebodyData]

Where do you get High 4-C Frieza? Last time I check he's 4-C because of the kaio ken to begin with

 

[Therefir]

Frieza is not High 4-C, I don't know why in their profiles it is assumed that Frieza get 53 times stronger than his first form.

 

[Therefir]

@Therefir Then he should be 5-A.

Yeah, the problem is that Goku with KKx10 is already stronger than first form Frieza, who have a 5-A+ feat.

 

[SomebodyData]

Probably because First Form << Second Form << Third Form </= Goku <<20x<< Goku KK x20 << Frieza

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Therefir You mean after he gets out of the rejuvenation chamber and gets a zenkai boost right? Before that he was still weaker than first form freeza.

 

[Therefir]

@Therefir You mean after he gets out of the rejuvenation chamber and gets a zenkai boost right? Before that he was still weaker than first form freeza.

Goku base form have a PL of 90,000, with KKx10=900,000.

First form Frieza= 530,000.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Therefir I see, doesn't really change much since afterwards only thing to scale is kaioken x20. So makes no difference either way, just means goku's base from the early freiza saga was already way above planet level.

 

[Amexim]

Then this doesn't work. If we go by Goku's stats, Goku should only be Planet level with KKx10 by the stats, right? If he's at least x4, KKx10 should put him at x40 baseline. Which is still planet

 

[Therefir]

Piccolo's feat = 69.69 zettatons. Goku Kaioken x4 =278.76 Zettatons. Goku base form after his training is stronger than his kaioken x4 from saiyan saga, plus Kaioken x10 = 2787.6 zettatons or 2.78 yottatons= Baseline 5-A.

@Amexim

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Amexim What? This is frieza saga goku who trained a lot and got much stronger, if it was sayain saga it would make no sense, early frieza saga goku is way stronger than he was before.

Am i getting this mixed up and somehow saiyan saga goku could use kaioken x10?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

He can't.

 

[Amexim]

Yeah, but we don't know how strong he did. That's why we low-ball, right? Come on now, that's what the entire first Saga and a half of the sheet does. I'm assuming that Goku from Namek Saga is at least as strong as KKx4 Goku, because we don't use power levels, we go by stats— right?!

So, if Goku is KKx4 in base, 4 times planetary or so, then x10 would barely put him at the edge of planet level.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Amexim We don't know how much stronger he got, but we know he trained and got a lot stronger, if with kaioken x 10 he is above first form freeza, then it's not that it doesn't make sense for him to be that high, it just means he got a lot stronger than he was before, it's not that hard to understand.

I should get back to adding matches, and doing other stuff, i have said my piece here, it's up to you guys to decide what happens here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What happens here is that this thread should be closed, as it won't go anywhere.

 

[Amexim]

I mean, I guess I get CP's reasoning then, but he is using PL's to justify it— breaking our understanding of both of them. Meaning his base is high end large Planet level, if we keep Kaio-Ken multipliers linear— meaning the Ginyu's should be mid large planet level anyway, being half as strong as Goku at KKx10

 

[Amexim]

I'm for it I guess, if this is the reasoning.

 

[Therefir]

This thread was derailed by things that we already accepted.

 

[Amexim]

Yeah, my bad. I was just trying to find a solution to an irrelevant problem. Someone brought up multipliers and power levels and I went off.

Anyway, I think the logic Cp had is valid, since Kaioken x10 makes him stronger than Frieza, he should get High 5-A

 

[Therefir]

Low 4-C actually.

 

[Amexim]

Wouldn't go that far...

 

[AKM sama]

Nani? What happened here?

 

[PaChi2]

Closing this. Seriously, @Dark and Cal you both derailed this long enough with your Kaioken issues and your backwards and upwards and whatever powerscaling.