Goku's AP in Early DBZ.

[KinkiestSins]

I mean, even Piccolo vs Nappa had its competitive moments, and Piccolo had 1/4th or so the power level of a casual nappa.

Piccolo had a Power Level of 3,500 and Nappa 4,000. Wasn't 1/4th. Even assuming Nappa was 8,000 while serious it still wouldn't be 1/4th.

Isnt iirc Piccolo at 1500 or so and Nappa at 4000?

Edit: I was half right, but this is full power piccolo vs casual nappa. Point stands tho.

Power Levels are used as a rough metric and are not linear.

 

[Qawsedf234]

No, Raditz is 1,500. As the link showed, during the later parts of the Saiyan Saga Piccolo had a power level 3,500.

 

[KinkiestSins]

No, Raditz is 1,500. As the link showed, during the later parts of the Saiyan Saga Piccolo had a power level 3,500.

No? This was literally at the start of the battle.

Nappa and Vegeta took their power level and it was at 1200 or so (not 1500 but close enough lul)

Piccolo at full power is at 3500, whereas Nappa at full power is 8000 or so.

But piccolo vs casual nappa is 1200 vs 4000.

Edit: I am also fine with just chalking it up to the writer being bad with power levels and keeping the profiles as they are.

 

[Qawsedf234]

In that exact same page where the 1,220 number is from, Vegeta said they can change their power levels. The 3,500 is Piccolo using his maximum power.

 

[AKM sama]

Power levels aren't used anyway. So it's pointless to mention them.

 

[FTW395]

@AKM sama how are they pointless exactly? They're pretty reliable on telling who's stronger than who and putting in perspective how much they're stronger.

 

[Dark649]

I personally think power levels are linear only from the Saiyan Saga to Namek Saga, i can accept 5-A Goku only if he reaches says tier with Kaioken multipliers.

 

[Kepekley23]

Piccolo is not 3,500.

Gohan is stated to be > him in the manga.

 

[FTW395]

Piccolo is not 3,500.
Gohan is stated to be > him in the manga.

Gohan's power level was stated to be 2800 and rising iirc, so he could've actually surpassed Piccolo's 3500.

 

[Kepekley23]

Nah.

He was stated to be exactly 2,800. Nothing about it rising.

 

[Kepekley23]

Vegeta: "Battle power 2,800...!!! So they really do drastically change their battle powers!!"

Nappa: "2,800, eh?!!"

Yeah. Nothing about it rising.

 

[Antvasima]

I will inform Matthew about this thread.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I have to agree with Cal.

It's pointless to try to linearly use power levels. Feats come above scaling. Goku shouldn't become 5-A.

The only thing we can use is Kaioken.

So we know that Goku with Kaioken x4 is at least four times above Baseline Planet level. Then Namek Saga Goku gets stronger in Base than he previously was with Kaioken x4.

Theoretically, that Goku could probably use Kaioken x4, although he only uses x2. So his power level would be at least, way, way above eight times baseline planet level.

He'd have to be 45 times above to get 5-A.

By the Namek Saga Goku is a really high-end Planet level but not 5-A.

 

[Kepekley23]

That version of Goku was stated to be able to use a Kaioken x10, which would push him to 5-A....or really damn close.

But I think Planet level+ is better.

 

[Dark649]

Yeah, i have to agree with Matt if we power levels Post-Fruits Turles would end up at 4-C, which doesn't make sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If we used Power levels literally all the times, Pilaf Saga Oozaru Goku would be Planet level.

 

[Kepekley23]

I'm talking about Kaioken x10 Goku.

Base Goku (Namek Saga) is at least the same as 4x Kaioken Goku (obviously higher) when it comes to how many times he is above the baseline. Stack the KKx10 on top of that.

 

[Dark649]

And Giran, who was scared by Goku breaking a wall: higher than High 8-C.

 

[Dark649]

Base Goku (Namek Saga) is at least the same as 4x Kaioken Goku (obviously higher) when it comes to how many times he is above the baseline. Stack the KKx10 on top of that.

Matthew already debunked your 5-A upgrade, he said that he'd have to be 45 times above to get 5-A, which he did not.

 

[Kepekley23]

1. The upgrade is not mine.

2. That's not what I said.

3. That's not what I said.

 

[Therefir]

Piccolo's feat = 69.69 zettatons. Goku Kaioken x4 =278.76 Zettatons. Goku base form after his training is stronger than his kaioken x4 from saiyan saga, plus Kaioken x10 = 2787.6 zettatons or 2.78 yottatons= Baseline 5-A.

Also Goku after his training can use kaioken x10.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Frankly, I'm against using KK multipliers like that anyway. Heck, we could abuse it to say that KKX20 Cell Saga Goku would've been stronger than Super Perfect Cell, and Super Saiyan would be useless.

 

[Therefir]

We only know that super saiyan forms are stronger than kaioken x20.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If Cell Games!Goku is Large Star+ w/o Super Saiyan (albeit to a lesser extent than SSJ), then KKX20 pushes him to Solar System level, and a higher level of it than Cell.

Heck, we could easily push that and Super Saiyan to put Frieza at Large Star level.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We couldn't. Really.

 

[Therefir]

Goku is Large Star level+ as a Full Power Super Saiyan, not without it.

 

[FTW395]

If Cell Games!Goku is Large Star+ w/o Super Saiyan (albeit to a lesser extent than SSJ), then KKX20 pushes him to Solar System level, and a higher level of it than Cell.
Heck, we could easily push that and Super Saiyan to put Frieza at Large Star level.

Sounds like we need to change some profiles then....

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We couldn't. Really.

If a pre-Goku final form Frieza is star level, and even the 2nd and 3rd forms being small star level+, then we could, in all honesty.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Final Form Freeza is like Star level only when he is all out. As far as I know.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Goku is Large Star level+ as a Full Power Super Saiyan, not without it.

That Large Star rating without the + accounts for beginning of Android Saga/end of Trunks Saga, rather than Cell Games Saga

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Final Form Freeza is like Star level only when he is all out. As far as I know.

Nope. Frieza while he was beating the s*** out of Vegeta is star level according to our profile.

 

[FTW395]

Where does the Low 4-C rating actually come from?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Upwards scaling from first form Frieza's casual Supernova, which was super high end High 5-A.

 

[Therefir]

Why Frieza is Small star level+ in the first place? where does + come from?.

 

[AKM sama]

Even multiplying x4 multiplier for kaioken in Piccolo's moon bust reduces the difference to 9.69 times
The only question is whether base Goku during Vegeta fight is 9.69 times stronger than the Piccolo who destroyed the moon?

I think post King Kai Goku is likely 9.69 times stronger than Piccolo who blew the moon. So how about a 5-B, Likely 5-A rating?

 

[FTW395]

High 5-A x20 gives us Low 4-C which would justify a very lowballed Low 4-C rating for Goku Kkx20. I don't know what bumps them to High 4-C though.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

High 4-C is very unjustified. Small Star level to Star level at 100% / Super Saiyan makes sense.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's the point though. Using Kaio-Ken like that makes him Large Star level regardless. If 2nd Form Frieza alone is Low 4-C+, then he definitely hits High 4-C+ with 4th Form, let alone 100%

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

First three forms should be High 5-A.

 

[Therefir]

The difference between Low 4-C and Low 4-C+ is pretty large, I don't know why Frieza jumps from small star level to small star level+ just by stomping Piccolo.