Goku vs Yujiro Hanma

[Silvervigilant]

The first fight of this tournament.

Son Goku vs Yujiro Hanma

Rules

• The tournament takes place in an indestructible island with a 1000 feet radius
• Stats are equal for every fighter
• Only martial arts techniques are alllowed
• Techniques that use any type of energy are allowed
• Any technique that amplify the user's stats will not have any effect on it
• Flight techniques are limited to reach just 200 feet at most
• Transformations are restricted
• Win by Death or Incapacitation

Who wins?

The Super Saiyan:

The Ogre:

 

[Silvervigilant]

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[Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer]

Vote goes to Goku for me.

 

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[Oliver_de_jesus]

So Goku likely counter some moves from Yujiro via Ultra instinct (Technique variant), so it will be hard to land a hit against Goku

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

So Goku likely counter some moves from Yujiro via Ultra instinct (Technique variant), so it will be hard to land a hit against Goku

Yujiro has instictive reactions that scale from Baki, who was capable of dodging attacks that blitz him based on instict, as a 13 year old kid. So UI likely won't work that well here.

 

[Silvervigilant]

So Goku likely counter some moves from Yujiro via Ultra instinct (Technique variant), so it will be hard to land a hit against Goku

So you are you voting Goku?

 

[Silvervigilant]

Yujiro has instictive reactions that scale from Baki, who was capable of dodging attacks that blitz him based on instict, as a 13 year old kid. So UI likely won't work that well here.

Didn't remember Baki did that so young

 

[Huesito88]

Didn't remember Baki did that so young

Gaia vs Baki fight

 

[Livinmeme]

Yujiro via dark tunnel

 

[Huesito88]

Yujiro via dark tunnel

And Goku does this to counter OVO

 

[Vietthai96]

Yujiro has instictive reactions that scale from Baki, who was capable of dodging attacks that blitz him based on instict, as a 13 year old kid. So UI likely won't work that well here.

Like wtf, we have martial arts scaling, and now instinctive reaction scaling???

 

[Huesito88]

Like wtf, we have martial arts scaling, and now instinctive reaction scaling???

Well yeah haven't you seen a few skill threads?

 

[Vietthai96]

Well yeah haven't you seen a few skill threads?

I know those skills scaling thread, just ******* crazy

 

[Silvervigilant]

Gaia vs Baki fight

Oh right

 

[Silvervigilant]

@Huesito88 do have opinion on this fight?

 

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[Oliver_de_jesus]

So you are you voting Goku?

No

 

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[Twellas]

Yujiro. Goku might be the most overrated martial artist in fiction, deadass get him past 13yo baki before putting him against Yujiro lmao

 

[OneRhasstyBoi]

Yujiro. Goku might be the most overrated martial artist in fiction, deadass get him past 13yo baki before putting him against Yujiro lmao

It’s actually the other way around. Get your Baki past Kid Goku in OGDB who vastly surpassed both Master Roshi and Grandpa Gohan, both of whom has statements of mastering all forms of martial arts on Earth and has specifically trained martial arts their entire life.

 

[Twellas]

It’s actually the other way around. Get your Baki past Kid Goku in OGDB who vastly surpassed both Master Roshi and Grandpa Gohan, both of whom has statements of mastering all forms of martial arts on Earth and has specifically trained martial arts their entire life.

Y'all gassing up a ******* Mouth and START OF SERIES MOTOBE level statement lmao can't make this shit up.

Took Goku 40 years and training from 3 different gods to be able to use a technique Baki learned on his own when he was 12 these dudes shouldn't even be put in the same SENTENCE let alone compared lol

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

all these statement slops won't matter if they don't show any actual usable skill in actual combat.
Baki's ridiculous explanation for allowing impossible things to happen by sheer skill is far out of skills any Martial arts statement slop Dragonball has especially how DB focused more on powering up and leveling up rather than actual applicable combat martial arts that doesn't require one to power up more or do some weird specific task to weaken their enemy or catch them off-guard.

not to mention the whole idea of skill training somehow increasing power level rather than outright gaining actual skills or abilities.
Yujiro can learn techniques from enemies as well just by observing them especially with the 100 yr old cripple
but he just flexes it and refuses to use it cause its "For children"

this is a vote for the Bizzare Yujiro btw

 

[Broyswag]

Im super busy right now but i try to give a deep analysis this weekend or maybe next. But im not really motivated for two things:

a) comic guys are the apex predators of the martial arts worlds under every god damn setting so I dont really see why I should waste my time here
b) Just the recyliced trash all over again. It feels like im discussing with the same 2-3 guys across all platforms

There are some things that are just borderline ******** and I just have to adress them.

Yujiro. Goku might be the most overrated martial artist in fiction, deadass get him past 13yo baki before putting him against Yujiro lmao

Overrated in what sense? There are multiple guys from the webtoon/manga world that are more "overrated".

Traditional rules? Ive already did a full break down of that son of a bastard in a russian telegram channel 2 years ago and honestly, Baki is one of the worst fighters ive ever seen when it comes to pure visuals. Baki should take some notes from Goku what superior positional grappling looks like, sweep/throws and good clinch work. But im not really a fan of using visuals, I just stick to narrative, statements and feats.

Fictional rules? Goku lacks offesnive hax but that just one part of fighting. The defense that he has displayed with natural skills and the things he can do with KI under a H2H setting is top notch.

Popularity? Ive been in some places and Goku is incredbile popular not just by combat athletes.

For an overrated fighter, Goku gives your Avatar (im an Fotns expert myself) a hard fight under H2H rules (only sticking to Hokuto and Nanto). Not getting oneshotted by the 2. best H2H fighter is an achivement of his own. The only thing he cant counter with his own skills or abilities is Tenha Kassatsu.

Not bad for the most overrated martial artsist in ficiton. And he didnt even reach the end of the series!

Y'all gassing up a ******* Mouth and START OF SERIES MOTOBE level statement lmao can't make this shit up.

Took Goku 40 years and training from 3 different gods to be able to use a technique Baki learned on his own when he was 12 these dudes shouldn't even be put in the same SENTENCE let alone compared lol

Even the original series supports it. Then you got a guidebook statement stating basically the same thing about Roshi and if I remember it correctly - from Herms - the Daizenshu describes Satan as a legit world champ and the strongest grappler.

No idea whats the problem, it was a normal thing for wu xia martial arts even more so for martial art manags whos main target group are kids. Common sense should tell you why. Its a combo of sticking to low prices and Toriyama is the type of guy who wants to keep it simple and pretty straightforward.

Btw. you did a bad job with the scans. Theres a much better one that could give Yujrio "mastering every martial arts" vibe but they are some work arounds if you give him the dragonball threatment which isnt needed since Goku scales above masters and Yujiro is just a master.

For the love of god - I will add this just 100% to my future projects - Not every instinctive response ability is equal. What Goku learned from Kami and Poppo was basically the equivalent of Bakis wannabe UI. But in Gokus case it was just a stepping stone for something bigger. Also, that trash is something which even Roshis pseudo UI comes with. Dont focus too much on the thing it has, better focus on the things it comes with.

Lets say both techniques are equal, it still doesnt mean shit. Maybe Dragonballs UI is just harder to learn cuz it allows you to do more things? Remember when Roshi made Jiren - for a short time - look like shiet thanks to Roshis fake UI? The same Jiren would put Baki on his ass.

all these statement slops won't matter if they don't show any actual usable skill in actual combat.
Baki's ridiculous explanation for allowing impossible things to happen by sheer skill is far out of skills any Martial arts statement slop Dragonball has especially how DB focused more on powering up and leveling up rather than actual applicable combat martial arts that doesn't require one to power up more or do some weird specific task to weaken their enemy or catch them off-guard.

not to mention the whole idea of skill training somehow increasing power level rather than outright gaining actual skills or abilities.
Yujiro can learn techniques from enemies as well just by observing them especially with the 100 yr old cripple
but he just flexes it and refuses to use it cause its "For children"

this is a vote for the Bizzare Yujiro btw

Yujrio is in my top 5 list due the combo of his natural skills, physicals and what he would in character but you are downplaying my man Goku haaard.

I wanted to give a bigger and deeper response why these statements do matter but ya know what? Im fine with that. Lets stick to acutal showings and ignore statements. Not just here, but the whole Wiki. It will be funny to see how 99% of them wont even make it past galaxy level. There are some wannabe Low 1C webtoons and managas that havent displayed shit. The fact that some of their physicals scale to it makes it even weirder since some of that verses doesnt work that way.

There do exist verses that give a deeper explanation cosmology wise but they still get oneshotted by Dragonball. I dont give two cents about why this or that is possible, what matters is the feat.

Focus on power up? Maybe you should re read and rewatch Dragonball. They defeated Kid Buu via team work. Goku vs Kefla, Granola, Jiren, Broly etc Goku can keep up with stronger guys but he cant beat them. It not cuz he sucks; he lacks martial arts hax. Goku is just your average dude who loves fighting and he does it like a real man. One ring. Two fists. No hax.

Toyo got his ass beaten by the internet once he made the Jiren/Roshi thing public. So Goku getting a power up here and there is firstly) more realstic and secondly) Its Gokus entire sthick, getting stronger and better. Ya know ... theres a saying "Athletic and skilled athltes are the rarest breeds". Goku just got them A++ genes compared to Yujiro.

Yeah, im gonna use manga Goku to make it a bit more fair cuz anime Goku ***** on Yujiro.

On a sidenote: Comic guys, Kenshiro and Kenichi are ihmo the best martial artist in fiction but even some one like Mighty Guy gives the guys below them a hard fight. Maybe stop talkin shit to Goku cuz the other ones arent nearly as good as you think (Not familiar with chinese and video games, but i would never touch them cuz im not a weirdo).

 

[azontr]

What is blud waffling about

 

[Broyswag]

What is blud waffling about

They talked shit and i responded with shit.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Goku’s smoking his pack in raw hands

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

most of your responses are legit whataboutism on other series rather than discussing Goku's martial arts in terms of its prowess and its measure in skill.
and losing to a martial arts hax user because your martial arts don't use hax doesn't make the hax better it just gives the benefit of the doubt but in its entirety, it is literally a nothing burger.

lastly don't imply that being familiar with Chinese or video games makes you a weirdo that's basically what you did with your last statement whether it is intentional or not. furthermore, kenshiro uses hax with his martial arts to achieve levels of being untouchable. His one-hit technique via touching is the only skill worth ability but even then that kind of technique lacks complexity which is mostly purely precision. so let me ask can he fight if his 1 hit-touch exploding technique works? Of course he can he did but in the process used something even worse which is a hax where you literally cannot touch him because he lacks a true physical form.

can you see how absurd that you claim the best martial artist also falls into the same trap the Chinese skillslops you say.


not to actual talk about the points you brought up

Ultra instinct allowing you to do more doesn't equate being better skillwise
specially when its appearance showcased only faster dodging that goku simply acted faster before the hit landed and the fact that he also became far more durable normally
which clearly show it is an amplification with the benefits of being instinctively reacting and attacking making any lapse in thinking be bypassed by stronger attack unlike former dbz techniques where in order to perform a strong attacking they have to charge it up or prepare it in advance

 

[Twellas]

For an overrated fighter, Goku gives your Avatar (im an Fotns expert myself) a hard fight under H2H rules (only sticking to Hokuto and Nanto). Not getting oneshotted by the 2.

Yeah sure, Goku, the character well known for dropping his guard like a schmuck will surely fare well in a fight against a dude against whom you have to fight without breathing because he can perceive each individual nerve in your body and the act of your lungs moving is considered a distraction big enough that he can use it to kill you instantly.
Only way the fight is close is if you just remove all of Ken's instakill/instawin moves (99.9% of his kit) and limit him to like, low tier Nanto techniques, if you don't, the fight is over the moment Gokut takes his first breath

he only thing he cant counter with his own skills or abilities is Tenha Kassatsu.

Goku ain't doing shit about Musou Tensei, Soryu Tenha, all of Gento, all of Hokuto Ryukaken, Seito Gekken, 99% of Nanto techniques and the list goes on. I actually think Tenha Kossatsu might be the only thing he would be able to deal with, it's just a more refined ki blast, he can wrap his head around that most likely

Overrated in what sense? There are multiple guys from the webtoon/manga world that are more "overrated".

I mean, yeah, there's probably some other, unknown rando from a czechoslovakian webtoon who's more overrated than him, I mean in terms of well known characters. People will deadass look you in the eyes and tell you he'd beat comicbook batman in h2h (I literally had an argument on twitter with Chuck, the powerscaling youtuber, on this very topic).

 

[Broyswag]

My very first steneces begins with "Im super busy right now ... ima try to give a deep analysis this or maybe nex week".

I dont have much time right now.

most of your responses are legit whataboutism on other series rather than discussing Goku's martial arts in terms of its prowess and its measure in skill.
and losing to a martial arts hax user because your martial arts don't use hax doesn't make the hax better it just gives the benefit of the doubt but in its entirety, it is literally a nothing burger.

My very first steneces begins with "Im super busy right now ... ima try to give a deep analysis this or maybe nex week".

Battleboarding could be so easy if you guys used your brain for a second. Everyone and their momma knows that Goku can keep up against guys with a big stats gap:

This was done against U6 warrios and said warrios have a bigger potential and that girl is a prodigy and the only saiyan confirmed to be able to go super saiyan without any trigger. Oh and she was much more powerful.

So why cant he beat stronger guys? He lacks hax that ignor convential durability. Boom. You aint doin shit without it. Vegeta vs Cell is a great example: Vegeta put everything he had into his kick and touched the vitals of off guard Cell. And gues what? It didnt do shit.

Dragonball fights in a nutshell that without hax or an angle technique like UI:

So why doesnt Goku learn any hax instead of fighting them like a real man? One of the many reasons, its out of character and wouldnt really fit Goku due a) he got the mentallity of a very old school martial artist b) natural born warrior and he just wants an "equal" match. Vegeta , in the moro arch , leanred a new ability cuz it was "necessary". The same teacher asked him if he wants to learn new things but Vegetas response was "No, thanks. I just want to make things fair."

And Goku is much more stuborn when it comes to that.

lastly don't imply that being familiar with Chinese or video games makes you a weirdo that's basically what you did with your last statement whether it is intentional or not.

Stop crying. At least I told you that im nt familiar with the chinese/video game H2H unlike you and the other weirdo who cleary never spent a min reading/watching Dragonball.

kenshiro uses hax with his martial arts to achieve levels of being untouchable. His one-hit technique via touching is the only skill worth ability but even then that kind of technique lacks complexity which is mostly purely precision.

Mate, what makes Kenshrio dangerous are the various forms of precog, many deadly techniques even if we just stick to pure H2H and one of the best defense that cant be copied and gives him absolute nothingness. He can do everything from close quarters to playing the range game.

You guys have no idea how busted he is. I would say that every single martial artsist is wanked but Kenshiro might be the only one who isnt cuz even the guys who try to wank him, are doing such a bad job.

so let me ask can he fight if his 1 hit-touch exploding technique works? Of course he can he did but in the process used something even worse which is a hax where you literally cannot touch him because he lacks a true physical form.

Tell me more or better stop here cuz I have read it like 10 times from front to back, buddeh.

Also, Muso Tensei shouldnt be used in H2H but im fine with it.

can you see how absurd that you claim the best martial artist also falls into the same trap the Chinese skillslops you say.

Ive no idea what you a trying to tell me here. Ive said hes the 2. best guy. On top of that i never said that hax shouldnt be allowed in H2H. Since we are here, you do know that martial arts were created for small and weak fellas? Basically what martial arts teaches you is how to take fully advantage of physics and apply it to your opponent. The equivalent of it are martial arts hax.

Goku fights prodigys (Kefla, Broly) , guys with ith an immeasurable potential/talent (Jiren) etc and he does it with themmmm hands. The equivalent of it would be a small guy without a martial arts background against a big and very strong guy. I got mad respect for my man Goku!

Again: My point was just due Dragonballs power system and Goku lacking martial arts hax, is the main reason why he cant defeat them.

not to actual talk about the points you brought up

Which points? that Baki does "impossible things " and it got a better "explanation".

Like Bro? Goku can fight blind using only air current which is impossible. What about predicting Hit? With Hits physicals alone, there are 64 possibilities and the fact he can make said hax shorter and longer addds an almost infinite amount of possiblities. But before you predicit said action, you have to predicit where Hit appears.

You guys just talked shit while not knowing anything about Dragonball. I only do that when im familiar with said verses.

Your other point was "no statements, only showings".

We arent discussing an universal destruction statement which is easily done. Martial arts need a bit more brain cells and more panels which was a luxury in the 80-90s. On top of that you want Akira Toriyama to "waste" fuckton of time in researching stuff? You wanna know how to generate power? You need flexible hips and strong rotational core strength while shifting your weight and some more lbs would be good cuz its help with transfering the generated force.

Insteadt of going the route of your wannabe mangaka, Toriyama was smart and went the easy route. Some may says he was "lazy" but he was just smart and saved a lot of time/resources and thus could spent time on other projects (he was a workhorse).

Grandpa Gohan got 2 statements, Roshi 1, then theres Satans statement of being the stronget grappler and it was made pretty clear that martial arts are just fodder to KI and KI is the pinnacle of skills.

Looking at the whole thing im pretty sure it was author intent for them to be masters of every single martial arts.

Ultra instinct allowing you to do more doesn't equate being better skillwise

Learn to read between the lines, buddeh. All im gonna say is UI varies for every single fictional series. Daniels UI from Lookism aint shit compared to Yujiros UI which he copied from Baki and its nothing compared to DBS UI. You guys are just sticking to one thing while im looking at the whole picture.

Gaia with DBS UI would make some big waves against my man Yujiro.

specially when its appearance showcased only faster dodging that goku simply acted faster before the hit landed and the fact that he also became far more durable normally

One of UIs advantages are it improves your movements passivley and makes you stronger.

Concrats pal.

 

[Broyswag]

Yeah sure, Goku, the character well known for dropping his guard like a schmuck will surely fare well in a fight against a dude against whom you have to fight without breathing because he can perceive each individual nerve in your body and the act of your lungs moving is considered a distraction big enough that he can use it to kill you instantly.
Only way the fight is close is if you just remove all of Ken's instakill/instawin moves (99.9% of his kit) and limit him to like, low tier Nanto techniques, if you don't, the fight is over the moment Gokut takes his first breath

Yeah sure, Goku, the character well known for dropping his guard like a schmuck will surely fare well in a fight against a dude against whom you have to fight without breathing because he can perceive each individual nerve in your body and the act of your lungs moving is considered a distraction big enough that he can use it to kill you instantly.
Only way the fight is close is if you just remove all of Ken's instakill/instawin moves (99.9% of his kit) and limit him to like, low tier Nanto techniques, if you don't, the fight is over the moment Gokut takes his first breath

I made it pretty clear that only Hokuto and Nanto are allowed. Even at this stage, my man Ken still has many deadly techniques but its still a hard fight. It comes from Gokus natural skills, what he can do with Ki and the microskill management which allows him to eat stronger attacks and give you more to chew. The fact can move his body using the smallest amount of movement to not be hit in vital areas. Add everything that comes with Ultra Instinct like it improves your movements passivley and makes you stronger which goes hand in hand with Gokus natural trait of getting stronger and better, auto hardering which is a neat combo with KI strengthening your skin and the fact that Granolas whole sthick is finding your weak spots on a cellular level from close quarters or far distance but it didnt work against UI Goku.

Its a cool fight but Goku still isnt there.

Goku ain't doing shit about Musou Tensei, Soryu Tenha, all of Gento, all of Hokuto Ryukaken, Seito Gekken, 99% of Nanto techniques and the list goes on. I actually think Tenha Kossatsu might be the only thing he would be able to deal with, it's just a more refined ki blast, he can wrap his head around that most likely

Sorry my bad, I meant Tenha Kassatsu cuz its the ultimate middlefinger to "equalizers"

I mean, yeah, there's probably some other, unknown rando from a czechoslovakian webtoon who's more overrated than him, I mean in terms of well known characters. People will deadass look you in the eyes and tell you he'd beat comicbook batman in h2h (I literally had an argument on twitter with Chuck, the powerscaling youtuber, on this very topic).

I dont wanna start a war but there are multiple popular martial artist that are "overrated". Whos more overrated is up to you.

Ignoring comics, for me both Goku and Ken are the 2 best martial artists ever produced ihmo.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

you basically confirmed what i just said with your reply
goofy

 

[Broyswag]

you basically confirmed what i just said with your reply
goofy

What confirmed? Im on my phone and doing thigns so maybe i missread some stuff.

Edit: Dont tell me its the Toryiama part cuz you are shooting yourself in the foot, buddeh.

Lets go champ; I aint got that much time for this shiet.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

ignoring all the sassy remarks and unnecessary ad hominem assumptions about what I know.

there's almost nothing in your reply except overhyping things and common knowledge

your response to my comment about the measure of skill is talking about hax where Goku refused to learn
how is that related to skill? and you show me a GIF of someone tanking fast-paced assaults. are you saying speed is a skill?
completely unrelated
good point on bringing enhanced senses but almost every high-tier combatant possesses that. heck, even Sasuke has that with his regular Sharingan.
nothingburger

also, precognition and analytical prediction are a different coins
immeasurable potential =/= immeasurable capacity to learn in skill

As I already stated earlier dragonball is more than just a skill so someone having the potential to reach a form where they become far stronger doesn't equate to having a skill.

and I'm not gonna address the unnecessary tangent regarding Mangaka being lazy or not as that is brought upon you.

furthermore when I said statements don't matter I meant it in the context that it isn't shown as something very usable in combat.
like saying I have learned countless martial arts
and then lose to someone who slightly punches harder or faster.
being skilled then later pointing out he simply has faster reaction speed or actual speed. because after all in this fight stats are equal and any powerup to stats are rendered null.
saying things like I've reached a level of higher than normal but nothing marginally changed skill-wise wise and was mostly winning by sheer stats difference which has been common since Namek Saga and Kaioken being introduced. it is mostly just resilience fight or power upping each other

• Raditz as a warrior race is bloodthirsty and often resort to using sheer force against enemies
• Same with Vegeta to the point he resorted to going oozaru
• Frieza haven't trained or learn any martial his entire life and was simply far too strong and has transformation that make him even stronger
• Broly is more of a rampaging beast than a skilled martial artist and once again he is known for his sheer ruthless strength
• frieza in his revival didn't change and was simply amped with technology before becoming sashimi
• the 2 frieza goons whose technique is all about blitzing their enemies together as they fly around (and they lost because Goku is faster)
• Martial artist that goku fought as a kid are all far weaker than him and the majority even have backwater martial arts except the final contenders with the exception to some and most of the story revolves around how Goku solves most situations in a naive manner that works because he is simply that strong
• Cell who legit lost to Vegeta because Vegeta and Trunks powered up so he powered up by devouring android 18 and defeated vegeta by being so strong
• then proceeds to just mog everyone with strength and Goku was able to defeat him with resilience as instead of relying on burst of strength relied on maintaining the super saiyan form longer and outlasted Cell to injure him enough
• and what did cell do after puking Android 17. self destruct. peak martial arts skill

literally barely anyone of his notable enemies of Goku past certain points do not have sheer skills compared to him and you claim him to be a top 2 martial artist despite the majority of his wins being done not through martial arts but through outwitting and outlasting his enemies and having an accelerated development on stats as they fight?.

you clearly isn't looking at the bigger picture here and hyper-focusing on things as if they mean something