Goku vs. Vegeta: The Rematch Redux (6-2-0).

[Omegas03]

Both are at their Tournament of Power selves and start in Base, but can go up to Super Saiyan Blue (and their respective amps such as Kaioken x20 or Evolution) . no Ultra Instinct. Fight takes place in the World of Void and win via KO or Death.

Mindset: IC, but will be taking things very seriously as opposed to a casual sparring match.



Goku: 6 (Eminiteable, Purgy, Dragomer, XSOULOFCINDERX, Lord JJJ, AwkguyDB

Vegeta: 2 (LordTracer, GarrixianDude100193,

Incon:

 

[Nitro90]

.....

 

[CryoTheMayo]

SSBE Vegeta was equal to X20 SSB Goku and stated to be equal by Nagamine, it's possible SSBE is actually a higher multiplier but I'll assume they are the same mult overall.

Goku should overall be stronger than Vegeta. He had two more limit breaks (UIS3 and UI) against Jiren, and in the film and novel was depicted as handling Wrath Broly with greater ease than Vegeta did. Regardless of how close they are, it's clear Goku is depicted as having an edge.

What about skills-wise? Well, they seem about the same but Goku should have an edge due to decades more experience, and how quickly his skills refined during and after using Ultra Instinct.

What about techniques? Sadly, Vegeta has nothing over Goku other than energy bindings and resistance to mind hax. Goku has Paralysis, Instant Transmission, Sealing, etc.

It overall seems stacked for Goku, he should have power, skill and technique advantage. So what does Vegeta have? Well, his Final Flash and Final Explosion are both extremely unlikely to work, due to Goku's Instant Transmission. Maybe if he used energy binds to lock Goku? But Goku has shown he can IT without using his fingers to concentrate, so Goku can probably escape.

No, what Vegeta has over Goku is stamina. Even after exerting most of his energy with Final Explosion, Vegeta could still go SSBE. Kaio-Ken, to contrast, greatly strains Goku's body overtime. Goku has only used X20 a few seconds at a time in-universe, and is depicted as usually using it in brief bursts. If Goku doesn't take Vegeta down quickly, Vegeta is going to get the advantage due to stamina and win.

Despite Vegeta's huge stamina advantage, I honestly think Goku takes this. He can just paralyze Vegeta and KO him with superior AP. If Goku fails to do this the first time, Vegeta has a good chance of winning.

I say Goku takes this 7/10 times, although I can see an inconclusive result. Voting Goku for now.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Vegeta ***** on Goku in ssbe. In the ToP Goku Blue was low 2-C and 20x low 2-C with Kaioken. Vegeta was 3-A then jumped up to 20x low 2-C with one amp.

Now that they're equal in the Broly Movie Vegeta goes ssbe and proceeds to wreck Goku's shit.

 

[Mickey1940]

SSBE Vegeta was equal to X20 SSB Goku and stated to be equal by Nagamine, it's possible SSBE is actually a higher multiplier but I'll assume they are the same mult overall.
Goku should overall be stronger than Vegeta. He had two more limit breaks (UIS3 and UI) against Jiren, and in the film and novel was depicted as handling Wrath Broly with greater ease than Vegeta did. Regardless of how close they are, it's clear Goku is depicted as having an edge.

What about skills-wise? Well, they seem about the same but Goku should have an edge due to decades more experience, and how quickly his skills refined during and after using Ultra Instinct.

What about techniques? Sadly, Vegeta has nothing over Goku other than energy bindings and resistance to mind hax. Goku has Paralysis, Instant Transmission, Sealing, etc.

It overall seems stacked for Goku, he should have power, skill and technique advantage. So what does Vegeta have? Well, his Final Flash and Final Explosion are both extremely unlikely to work, due to Goku's Instant Transmission. Maybe if he used energy binds to lock Goku? But Goku has shown he can IT without using his fingers to concentrate, so Goku can probably escape.

No, what Vegeta has over Goku is stamina. Even after exerting most of his energy with Final Explosion, Vegeta could still go SSBE. Kaio-Ken, to contrast, greatly strains Goku's body overtime. Goku has only used X20 a few seconds at a time in-universe, and is depicted as usually using it in brief bursts. If Goku doesn't take Vegeta down quickly, Vegeta is going to get the advantage due to stamina and win.

Despite Vegeta's huge stamina advantage, I honestly think Goku takes this. He can just paralyze Vegeta and KO him with superior AP. If Goku fails to do this the first time, Vegeta has a good chance of winning.

I say Goku takes this 7/10 times, although I can see an inconclusive result. Voting Goku for now.

Vegeta could use Dirty Fireworks

nothing Goku has can stop that,and it blows him up from the inside out

 

[LordTracer]

Vegeta FRA, the Blue Evo multiplier is way too massive.

 

[Mickey1940]

I don't think SSGSSE has a larger multiplier than SSGSS Kaioken x20

1. Vegeta performed far better against Jiren than Goku ever did, even before his limit break. Meaning that Vegeta was already ahead of him by the time the ToP started

2. Vegeta went through a limit break of his own before achieving SSGSSE, which meant that his Base form and SSJ forms are boosted

 

[LordTracer]

Vegeta was ahead of Goku before the ToP started. That doesn't really change much. And when did Vegeta break his limits prior to SSBE? At best, he got a Zenkai from Jiren.

Prior to SSBE, Vegeta Blue got roflstomped by Jiren the moment he started using the same power he did against Goku Blue (who at the time was >= UIO1). Then with SSBE, he equaled SSBKKx20 Goku.

SSBE sent Vegeta from maybe Pre-ToP Blue Kaioken x20 Goku level to 20x UIO1 with a single multiplier. That is far more than a single 20x increase.

 

[Omegas03]

I doubt SSBE will be treated as different from SSBKKx20 if they appear again.

Anyways I can just restrict them to SSB of Vegeta still stomps.

 

[Mickey1940]

Vegeta was ahead of Goku before the ToP started. That doesn't really change much. And when did Vegeta break his limits prior to SSBE? At best, he got a Zenkai from Jiren.
Prior to SSBE, Vegeta Blue got roflstomped by Jiren the moment he started using the same power he did against Goku Blue (who at the time was >= UIO1). Then with SSBE, he equaled SSBKKx20 Goku.

SSBE sent Vegeta from maybe Pre-ToP Blue Kaioken x20 Goku level to 20x UIO1 with a single multiplier. That is far more than a single 20x increase.

That means that Vegeta would have needed fewer zenkais to get on Goku's level

SSGSS Vegeta was doing better than Post UIO2 SSGSS Goku was against Jiren. After Jiren powered up a little, though, he was doing just as well as Goku was (meaning he was getting his sh*t handed to him), meaning that they are comparable in power

SSGSSE made Vegeta go from Post UIO2 SSGSS Goku to Post UIO2 SSGSS Kaioken x20 Goku, which is a x20 increase

 

[LordTracer]

Vegeta explicitly said Jiren was stronger and faster against Kakarot, and the moment Jiren went to the level he used against Post-UIO2 Goku, Vegeta got stomped out.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Goku was fighting equally with Jiren but Vegeta's punches couldn't even phase him.

 

[Mickey1940]

Vegeta explicitly said Jiren was stronger and faster against Kakarot, and the moment Jiren went to the level he used against Post-UIO2 Goku, Vegeta got stomped out.

and when Jiren started using more effort, he got stomped in the same way Goku did, meaning that Vegeta is around Goku's level of power

besides, Goku couldn't react to Jiren's flurry of punches earlier, but Vegeta was able to see right past it

 

[Omegas03]

Ahhhh I'll restrict them to Blue then. No amps.

 

[Mickey1940]

ok now Goku should win high diff for Cryo's reasons, but now Vegeta doesn't have the stamina advantage.

He could use Dirty Fireworks, but Goku has a helluva lot of other sh*t to keep him at bay

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Vegeta ***** on Goku in ssbe. In the ToP Goku Blue was low 2-C and 20x low 2-C with Kaioken. Vegeta was 3-A then jumped up to 20x low 2-C with one amp.
Now that they're equal in the Broly Movie Vegeta goes ssbe and proceeds to wreck Goku's shit.

Issue is, SSBE was referred to as a limit break like UIS by Whis and SSB Vegeta was already pressuring Jiren harder than UIS1 Goku did. So it's actually plausible for Post-SSBE Vegeta and Post-UIS2 Goku to be about the same, placing KKX20 and SSBE as same multiplier.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Goku EXTREMELY HIGH DIFF FRA.

 

[Purgy]

Didn't SSB Goku do significantly better against Broly than SSB Vegeta did? I can't really remember the movie so I might be wrong.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I disagree with assuming SSBE is stronger than KKX20, due to the simple fact that Vegeta broke his limits when he triggered SSBE. That isn't going to be the multiplier of SSBE, just the effect of him breaking his limits.

Regardless, like Mickey says, Vegeta lacks any stamina advantage now and Goku was overall superior in the DBS Broly film compared to Vegeta. IIRC the novel apparently even points out that Goku handled Broly with greater ease.

I also disagree intently with Dirty Fireworks. Vegeta could have done this at any point in the series if it worked on stronger/comparable opponents. It's best to assume it won't work against Goku.

 

[Omegas03]

It was SSG Goku that did better than SSG Vegeta against Ikari Broly but it was more due to technique.

When both fighting against SSJ Broly as SSBs they were portrayed as equal. @Purgy

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Issue with that though. Vegeta was resting that entire time. Goku got molly-whopped by Wrath Broly in SSG, and Vegeta (who had plenty of time to rest and was nowhere near as damaged as Goku) then joined Goku against Broly.

Comparing Post-Wrath Goku to a rested Vegeta doesn't make much sense to me, IMO, especially not when the ToP showed how quickly the cast can recover from exhaustion.

Even so, if they were equal and Goku handled Broly with pure technique, that still puts this pretty heavily in Goku's favour. He became far more refined thanks to UI in the ToP.

 

[Omegas03]

Fair enough.

The initial plan was to make it SSBKKx20 vs SSBE (both at the ToP) but it would have been to repetitive and most people will vote Vegeta due to stamina and AP advantage.

 

[CBslayeR]

So they should be relatively equal in all stats, the skill advantage is in nobody's favor since they're ALWAYS sparring and Goku's unique techniques like IT have been countered by people such as Frieza and Caulifa so Vegeta should be able to catch Goku the moment he pops back up. I think Vegeta takes this due to rage boost which he activates more often than Goku does

 

[CryoTheMayo]

So, it seems SSB Goku should beat SSB Vegeta 7/10 or 8/10 and, if my arguments are sound for SSBE scaling, SSBKKX20 Goku can beat SSBE Vegeta 6/10.

 

[Omegas03]

So they should be relatively equal in all stats, the skill advantage is in nobody's favor since they're ALWAYS sparring and Goku's unique techniques like IT have been countered by people such as Frieza and Caulifa so Vegeta should be able to catch Goku the moment he pops back up. I think Vegeta takes this due to rage boost which he activates more often than Goku does

Even though this is a real serious match, I very much doubt Vegeta will have a motivation to rage against Goku

 

[Eminiteable]

Goku fra.

 

[Omegas03]

Well as far as the thread it's going, would it matter if I just changed them to their ToP peaks (SSBKKx20 and SSBE)? Obv no UI as it seems Vegeta doesn't have an advantage here tbh.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

It would be closer overall, but I'd probably give it to Vegeta due to SSBE's efficiency compared to Kaio-Ken.

 

[Omegas03]

Ok, I'll change it because I think this isn't very close at all.

 

[Eminiteable]

Does Kaio-ken enhance all Goku's senses as well by that amount, so he'd have that going as well.

 

[Mickey1940]

I disagree with assuming SSBE is stronger than KKX20, due to the simple fact that Vegeta broke his limits when he triggered SSBE. That isn't going to be the multiplier of SSBE, just the effect of him breaking his limits.
Regardless, like Mickey says, Vegeta lacks any stamina advantage now and Goku was overall superior in the DBS Broly film compared to Vegeta. IIRC the novel apparently even points out that Goku handled Broly with greater ease.

I also disagree intently with Dirty Fireworks. Vegeta could have done this at any point in the series if it worked on stronger/comparable opponents. It's best to assume it won't work against Goku.

About Dirty Fireworks, Vegeta used to use it frequently cause he was a cold-blooded killer. Just because he has never used it against someone with an equal power level doesn't mean it doesn't work. The reason why they stopped making Vegeta use it is cause of his transition from a villain to a hero, I think

However, I doubt he'll consider using it before Goku finishes him off

 

[LordTracer]

So this is during the ToP, right? Their peaks in the ToP, or like initial SSBE and Post-UIO2 Blue Kaioken? I see Vegeta taking it either way, but for different reasons depending on what point in the ToP this is.

 

[Omegas03]

Yeah, post UIO2 SSBKKx20 and post Toppo SSBE.

 

[Omegas03]

Anyways, before the stamina argument comes in hasn't Goku mastered SSBKK? I don't recall ToP Goku getting exhausted by using the Kaioken.

 

[LordTracer]

Oh, Post-Toppo? Vegeta kinda stomps then. Because Vegeta clearly powered up in the middle of the Toppo fight and went from getting overpowered to blitzing and ragdolling Toppo.

 

[Eminiteable]

Voting Goku via overall better skill, Solar Flare, Instant transmission and Analytical Prediction + if need be setting up explosive landmines.

 

[Purgy]

Anyways, before the stamina argument comes in hasn't Goku mastered SSBKK? I don't recall ToP Goku getting exhausted by using the Kaioken.

Apparently yes, but I don't know for sure. As for the battle, I'd probably vote Goku assuming they're equal power wise, he has better and more useful techniques imo.

 

[Dragomer]

Goku wins, SSJBKK20 and SSJBE are outright stated to be dead equal by word of god and Goku always had the skills and versatility advantage over Vegeta, IT, solar flare and the Kienzan hexa blade are just three ability Vegeta has no answer for, let alone if Goku combo them.

Goku also has the experience advantage since he was actualy being challenged while Vegeta was just stomping on fodders before meeting Goku, by the TOP the experience gap has shrunk but is still present in favor of Goku.

Also the stamina argument isn't valid, Goku show no strain while using SSJBKK20 even while almost exhausted during the TOP.

 

[Mickey1940]

this fight has been done before, Vegeta won

 

[Purgy]

this fight has been done before, Vegeta wo

Can you link the thread?