Gogeta blue tier

[Pritti]

<inserting massive thinking emoji>

 

[DMB_1]

If this was to be actually considered, then Zamasu would end up being a huge outlier then right?

Zeno's feat was very casual though, so it wouldn't be such a stretch scaling the other to him.

 

[Amexim]

And either way, there's still issues like, why is the universe infinite if we can just travel to the edge of it, even though we technically can't unless we're whis because it's infinite. Also, to determine if Zamasu fused with time or not is important. If he did merge with space-time, then we can still argue he's 4D, and therefore Low 2-C.

 

[RashFaustinho]

So...using the original language as the basis here. The DB cosmos is just a compilation of macrocosms with realms above and below them, all sharing the same timeline?

Looks like it, yeah. There is a saga with a bunch of item (rings), with each ring representing a timeline, and by the looks of it, a ring (timeline) encompasses everything - The 12 Universes of the cosmology and the afterlife realm

 

[The_Causality]

Here is the thread about DB's cosmology discussion.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

The problem isn't that, but the fact that he was affecting space time

It could just be space-time manipulation.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The problem isn't that, but the fact that he was affecting space time

Staying neutral, but I do want to ask this.

If we do agree on the universes being their own space-time, then whats actually left to prove Zamasu fused with space-time instead of just their matter? Because at this point, Zamasu wouldnt need to bypass dimensional barriers to fuse with the universes anymore since they would be sharing the same space-time structure.

The only tid bit of evidence left would be breeching into Goku's U7 and that was only because Future Trunks left an opening between his world and Goku's for Future Zamasu to slip his presence into. He didnt do it with his own power by force.

Not to mention, Zen'o supposedly using only matter level destruction to get rid of F.Z. since Trunks Time Machine could still travel back.

So can I ask, what would prove Zamasu fused with space-time and not just matter at this point IF we agree on the universes not being separated?

 

[AguilaR101]

I'm glad that people are not pussyfooting around this issue anymore, hopefully whatever's decided in the inevitable staff-only thread isn't another half-baked cognitively dissonant compromise to keep controversy to a minimum.

 

[Pritti]

Zamasu physically was projected into the present. Beerus and co. saw merged Zamasu from the present. However this seems to be range and his AP is no more than 3-A

 

[TheRustyOne]

The only tid bit of evidence left would be breeching into Goku's U7 and that was only because Future Trunks left an opening between his world and Goku's for Future Zamasu to slip his presence into. He didnt do it with his own power by force.

That was never stated in the show, Zamasu just appeared in the past without any explanation.

 

[Amexim]

That's a space time merging thing if I ever saw it. So I would argue that him being a 4D being because of that would give him Low 2-C ap with 3D range

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That was never stated in the show, Zamasu just appeared in the past without any explanation.

I could have sworn this was brought up multiple times in prior discussions though.

Guess someone will have to recheck the episodes.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Just rechecked the Infinite Zamasu scene, not a single statement was given that says he appeared in the past because of Trunks time machine creating a link.

Whis: "Hmm... I sense... A flow of unpleasant energy that makes my skin tingle."

Beerus: "It Zamasu. Something happened in the future. It's having an effect on the present."

Go check yourself if you don't believe me.

 

[Amexim]

This is important. Meaning my guy is definitely Low 2-C. Good. So only Zeno gets changed.

 

[ProudLearner]

If you have not done so read this before commenting:

Why the DB Multiverse DOES NOT share the same space-time

Very Important Dragon Ball Super Revision

Very Important Dragon Ball Super Revision (Continued)

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually when checking it, there is something that implies IZ came through a portal, even if Future Trunks' time machine didnt cause it.

When IZ starts appearing in the present, Krillin asks "Could it be like when Goku Black came?". That implies Goku Black did something that left an opening link between the present and future.

 

[ZERO7772]

What the hell? This thread went off topic for a long time now. If you want to downgrade DB verse then just make a CRT "fanboys won't allow you lol"

Anyway, are we downgrading Gogeta or not? IMO the rating is too controversial and many people against it to be kept, I thought we only upgraded a character when the majority of staff and members agreed on it?

 

[Pritti]

Another thread was already made though

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What the hell? This thread went off topic for a long time now. If you want to downgrade DB verse then just make a CRT "fanboys won't allow you lol"
Anyway, are we downgrading Gogeta or not? IMO the rating is too controversial and many people against it to be kept.

Actually its not off topic because the cosmology of the verse directly goes in line with Beerus and Champs feat being 2-C, which is 100% crucial to Gogeta being 2-C.

The cosmology being treated wrong is the actual problem here to deal with first and then once thats done, we can get to Beerus Champa and Gogeta.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Krillin is refering to something coming out of the portal, no reason to assume anything else.

 

[ProudLearner]

What the hell? This thread went off topic for a long time now. If you want to downgrade DB verse then just make a CRT "fanboys won't allow you lol"
Anyway, are we downgrading Gogeta or not? IMO the rating is too controversial and many people against it to be kept, I thought we only upgraded a character when the majority of staff and members agreed on it?

This is not how it works! You need Staff and knowledgeable members to comment here before downgrading or keeping it as is

 

[ZERO7772]

Actually its not off topic because the cosmology of the verse directly goes in line with Beerus and Champs feat being 2-C, which is 100% crucial to Gogeta being 2-C.

The cosmology being treated wrong is the actual problem here to deal with first and then once thats done, we can get to Beerus Champa and Gogeta.

It's all your fault we are having this shit show lol

Joking aside, staff really should decide what to do about DB verse at this point since apparently many people are annoyed by it

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@ProudLearner What are you even talking about? Staff and knowledgeable members have both commented on here.

 

[ProudLearner]

@ProudLearner What are you even talking about? Staff and knowledgeable members have both commented on here.

Very Important Dragon Ball Super Revision

Very Important Dragon Ball Super Revision (Continued)

This two threads had more staff members agreeing with @AKM sama @CryoTheMayo @ProfessorKuiKui4life

all of you did not read these threads and want summary of it. Stop going by assumptions because Occam's razor

Why the DB Multiverse DOES NOT share the same space-time will debunk what ever @Sera EX has to propose.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Goku Black traveled to the past via time ring and a trail Trunks left by time traveling.

However Infinite Zamasu doesn't have a time ring, Trunk destroyed it along with Zamasu's body. So Zamasu can't travel through time unless it's with his own power.

Not only that but the trail Trunks makes only last a few minutes, by the time Infinite Zamasu appeared, the trail should've disappeared.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I feel like... We should conclude this before starting such a revision... As it will shake the DB Community to it's core.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@ProudLearner https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/24/Appeal-to-Common-Belief

I was on both threads so you can't say I didn't read them.

 

[Amexim]

The problem you have, Shadow, is that, assuming everything about the macrocausm stays the same, you're taking unnessary assumptions. You're wrong.

 

[Sera_EX]

So you just assume a blog from two years ago just instantly debunks anything I have to say? Okay then...

I don't even care if DB cosmology gets downgraded or not and what I said about the language is undoubtedly fact.

Still, I'm not pushing for it. I don't care either way. Didn't come back from hiatus just to heatedly debate fiction. I admit the thread's been derailed and we should move on but you guys do whatever. I'm just a moderator.

 

[ProudLearner]

@ProudLearner https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/24/Appeal-to-Common-Belief
I was on both threads so you can't say I didn't read them.

Yeah, you were there and your assumptions/opinions were debunk and you never reponded back.

I was talking about this new comers that never read the both thread and ran on with the same arguments as in the both threads that were already debunked.

I beleve the facts which are this . Also, the other users were good at explainng things better than I could. That is why I cite them.

 

[ZERO7772]

I get the feeling most of the old mods are just too tired on heated fiction debate and don't wanna try anymore.

 

[Pritti]

Cosmology aside, 2-C anyone except Zen'o has still been vehemently opposed.

 

[ZERO7772]

We will eneter an endless cycle if we start a debate DB cosmology. Can we just reslove this debate? It's getting cancerous.

This thread made me remember why I hate DB threads in this wiki. I am not showing my face in any DB CRT after this. Shit is just too heated for my taste.

 

[ProudLearner]

Damn!

You call this heated debate? I'm having fun!

 

[Sera_EX]

That's not even evidence. "The result in the destruction of Universe 6 and Universe 7" barely even vaguely implies 2-C.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Ehh.... Your sentence is unfinished.

 

[Sera_EX]

I get the feeling most of the old mods are just too tired on heated fiction debate and don't wanna try anymore.

It's true.

 

[Sera_EX]

Ehh.... Your sentence is unfinished.

The A was a typo. Sorry. ^^;

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

That explains why none of my Marvel revisions go literally nowhere .. But that's heavily off topic so please ignore that...

So does anyone have any conclusive evidence besides Multipliers and or "merely how far above Beerus Level " on UI Goku, Jiren , or Gogeta getting the requirements for 2C ?

 

[Pritti]

Sorry but one off handed statement doesn't constitute an argument. There requires more evidence. That goes for anything, not just DB, but the site has become too heavily reliant of statements when it should go

Feats > power-scaling > in-universe statements > WoG