God Toppo vs Dormammu (GRACE)

[Vizer04]

Both are in character and Speed Equalized.

God Toppo: 7 (@Ganasto, @Orange, @1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void, @BetterThanYou, @ColonelSlyBanjo, @Sus and @Shizuka)

Dormammu:

Inconclusive:

 

[Coolboy6]

Dormammu one shots and Toppo can’t affect him.

 

[Imaginym]

Incorporeality (His head/body is composed of space-time)

Given that, I'm skeptic Toppo is capable of harming Dormammu, unless he can EE that much Space-Time.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Dormammu should be able to one shot

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Either doramansoa attacks and one shots or Toppo hakai's. Depends on which is faster I guess.

 

[Imaginym]

Either doramansoa attacks and one shots or Toppo hakai's. Depends on which is faster I guess.

Would Toppo go for it early on in these circumstances, though?

Also, I'm unclear on the statistics, but aren't Dragon Ball characters often very high into their tiers due to scaling chains & such? Toppo gets one-shot?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Would Toppo go for it early on in these circumstances, though?

Also, I'm unclear on the statistics, but aren't Dragon Ball characters often very high into their tiers due to scaling chains & such? Toppo gets one-shot?

Toppo has a passive hakai aura, and actually spams it like it's the only move he has.
Toppo does indeed get one shot, he doesn't scale like the GoD tiers to low multiversal.

 

[Imaginym]

Toppo has a passive hakai aura, and actually spams it like it's the only move he has.
Toppo does indeed get one shot, he doesn't scale like the GoD tiers to low multiversal.

Any idea how much the AP/Striking Strength/Durability difference is?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Any idea how much the AP/Striking Strength/Durability difference is?

Unbelievably large, the difference between universe+ and low multiversal is unquantifiable, it could be infinite, but any character who scales to low multiversal would immediately AP stomp a character who doesn't, unless a universe+ character downscales from the 2-C.

 

[Imaginym]

Unbelievably large, the difference between universe+ and low multiversal is unquantifiable, it could be infinite, but any character who scales to low multiversal would immediately AP stomp a character who doesn't, unless a universe+ character downscales from the 2-C.

Ahhh, makes sense.

So their win conditions....

Can Toppo's Hakai erase as much Space/Time as Dormammu is?
Can Toppo's Hakai be dodged?

What about Dormammu's attacks? In what manner does he attack? Is it dodgeable?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Ahhh, makes sense.

So their win conditions....

Can Toppo's Hakai erase as much Space/Time as Dormammu is?
Can Toppo's Hakai be dodged?

What about Dormammu's attacks? In what manner does he attack? Is it dodgeable?

I don't know anything about dorianmmau, but hakai can interact with intangibles and stuff, it also has a massive range, but I don't know how much space dorianmmau is. Yes toppo's hakai can be dodged, but he can make it really big and it can have 3-A range. I don't know how dorianmmau attacks.

 

[Imaginym]

I don't know anything about dorianmmau, but hakai can interact with intangibles and stuff, it also has a massive range, but I don't know how much space dorianmmau is. Yes toppo's hakai can be dodged, but he can make it really big and it can have 3-A range. I don't know how dorianmmau attacks.

Based on his profile, Dormammu may be.... Bizarrely small.
Large Size (Type 2)

Type 2 (Skyscraper-sized): Characters whose size is comparable to that of high-rise buildings, starting from 100 meters. Starting from this level, the characters are usually able to generate shock waves.

So, Dormammu is less than 100 meters in size?

Anyway, another potential win condition:
Transmutation & Mind Manipulation (Transformed said Zealots into bestial mindless ones)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Based on his profile, Dormammu may be.... Bizarrely small.
Large Size (Type 2)

Type 2 (Skyscraper-sized): Characters whose size is comparable to that of high-rise buildings, starting from 100 meters. Starting from this level, the characters are usually able to generate shock waves.

So, Dormammu is less than 100 meters in size?

Anyway, another potential win condition:
Transmutation & Mind Manipulation (Transformed said Zealots into bestial mindless ones)

I see, it depends on if he uses mind hax in character.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Based on his profile, Dormammu may be.... Bizarrely small.
Large Size (Type 2)

Type 2 (Skyscraper-sized): Characters whose size is comparable to that of high-rise buildings, starting from 100 meters. Starting from this level, the characters are usually able to generate shock waves.

So, Dormammu is less than 100 meters in size?

Anyway, another potential win condition:
Transmutation & Mind Manipulation (Transformed said Zealots into bestial mindless ones)

Thats weird asf, dormammu absorb a lot of timelines inside him

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[Coolboy6]

Bump

Why are you bumping a stomp?

 

[Vizer04]

Why are you bumping a stomp?

Why it's a stomp?

 

[Imaginym]

Why it's a stomp?

I believe @Coolboy6 thinks that because Dormammu has an AP advantage so great, it's a stomp.

But Toppo has an achievable IC win condition, doesn't he? So doesn't that prevent it being a stomp?

 

[Coolboy6]

Why it's a stomp?

Dormammu one shots and Toppo can’t affect him.

 

[Coolboy6]

I believe @Coolboy6 thinks that because Dormammu has an AP advantage so great, it's a stomp.

But Toppo has an achievable IC win condition, doesn't he? So doesn't that prevent it being a stomp?

Dormammu is a being made of space and time. So Toppo can’t affect him.

 

[Vizer04]

Dormammu is a being made of space and time. So Toppo can’t affect him.

Dormammu can't affect Toppo either.

 

[Coolboy6]

Dormammu can't affect Toppo either.

He can just fire a beam at Toppo and he’d be dead. Also if that’s the case, how was vegeta able to fight with and eventually overpower Toppo? No offense but that’s probably one of the dumbest things I’ve heard people say on this wiki.

 

[Imaginym]

Dormammu is a being made of space and time. So Toppo can’t affect him.

I think a position contrary to your was expressed on the matter in this thread:

I don't know anything about dorianmmau, but hakai can interact with intangibles and stuff, it also has a massive range, but I don't know how much space dorianmmau is. Yes toppo's hakai can be dodged, but he can make it really big and it can have 3-A range. I don't know how dorianmmau attacks.

Also, even if Toppo's God of Destruction Hakai is so unlike Zeno's abilities (Which could delete Zamasu fused with a universe & spreading to other timelines.), wasn't there an instance where Beerus & Champa's fighting as Gods of Destruction was stated as destroying space/time, or am I mistaken?
If I am indeed, not mistaken, then wouldn't that mean Toppo's God of Destruction Hakai could destroy a space time? Especially one so small as only Large Size Type 2?

 

[Coolboy6]

I think a position contrary to your was expressed on the matter in this thread:

Also, even if Toppo's God of Destruction Hakai is so unlike Zeno's abilities (Which could delete Zamasu fused with a universe & spreading to other timelines.), wasn't there an instance where Beerus & Champa's fighting as Gods of Destruction was stated as destroying space/time, or am I mistaken?
If I am indeed, not mistaken, then wouldn't that mean Toppo's God of Destruction Hakai could destroy a space time? Especially one so small as only Large Size Type 2?

Vegeta was able to punch through Toppo’s hakai. I don’t get how this is a debate? Basically, if the opponent is stronger than the person using Hakai, the opponent resists.

 

[Imaginym]

Vegeta was able to punch through Toppo’s hakai. I don’t get how this is a debate?

Nonetheless, why should we assume Toppo's hakai/GoD energy is so different from other GoD energy that it can't affect Dormammu, given instances of very similar energy affecting intangible beings, &, if my memory isn't inaccurate, damaging/destroying spacetime?

 

[Coolboy6]

Nonetheless, why should we assume Toppo's hakai/GoD energy is so different from other GoD energy that it can't affect Dormammu, given instances of very similar energy affecting intangible beings, &, if my memory isn't inaccurate, damaging/destroying spacetime?

Because

Basically, if the opponent is stronger than the person using Hakai, the opponent resists.

Pretty much the reason why Toppo vs Broly was a stomp

 

[Imaginym]

Because "Basically, if the opponent is stronger than the person using Hakai, the opponent resists."

Wasn't Vegeta's superior strength, & thus resistance, through Ki, something which Dormammu may not have?

 

[Coolboy6]

Wasn't Vegeta's superior strength, & thus resistance, through Ki, something which Dormammu may not have?

Dormammu would still one shot Toppo before he could use Hakai. It’s literally a 2-C vs Low 2-C. Also You don’t need ki to resist Hakai

 

[Imaginym]

Dormammu would still one shot Toppo before he could use Hakai. It’s literally a 2-C vs Low 2-C.

Regarding this response:

What about Dormammu's attacks? In what manner does he attack? Is it dodgeable?

Also You don’t need ki to resist Hakai

The GoD in that scene specifically mentions if you were hit by it, & he very clearly gives that GoD, which the receiver stores. Granting energy to others is a thing, especially if we consider Goku giving severed Frieza ki on Namek as precedent.
Frieza on Namek was not harmed when receiving ki from Goku in that manner, I would think a God of Destruction purposely giving an assassin GoD ki to use for their mission would be able to exercise a similar level of control to make it not fatal.

 

[Coolboy6]

Can Toppo's Hakai erase as much Space/Time as Dormammu is?

No

Can Toppo's Hakai be dodged?

Yes

What about Dormammu's attacks? In what manner does he attack? Is it dodgeable?

He spits out a blast from his mouth and Toppo ****** dies

 

[Imaginym]

He spits out a blast from his mouth and Toppo ****** dies

He spits out a blast from his mouth and Toppo dodges because Speed is equalized & why would Toppo needlessly take a hit?
Not to mention, hasn't Toppo's Hakai EE'd energy attacks before, & it envelops him like an aura, no?

 

[Coolboy6]

Regarding this response:


The GoD in that scene specifically mentions if you were hit by it, & he very clearly gives that GoD, which the receiver stores. Granting energy to others is a thing, especially if we consider Goku giving severed Frieza ki on Namek as precedent.
Frieza on Namek was not harmed when receiving ki from Goku in that manner, I would think a God of Destruction purposely giving an assassin GoD ki to use for their mission would be able to exercise a similar level of control to make it not fatal.

Frieza had difficulty holding it

 

[Bernkastelll]

Dormammu can't affect Toppo either.

He can, he can fire energy blasts, which can kill Toppo

 

[Coolboy6]

He spits out a blast from his mouth and Toppo dodges because Speed is equalized & why would Toppo needlessly take a hit?
Not to mention, hasn't

THAT DOESN’T MEAN DORMAMMU ISNT CAPABLE OF HITTING TOPPO

Toppo's Hakai EE'd energy attacks before, & it envelops him like an aura, no?

DORMAMMU IS STRONGER HERE LOOK AT THE TIER DIFFERENCE STOP WANKING TOPPO

 

[Bernkastelll]

Also, dormammu isnt the type of the character who go H2H, his fighting style is mainly using range attacks

He can, he can fire energy blasts, which can kill Toppo

Not to mention, hasn't Toppo's Hakai EE'd energy attacks before, & it envelops him like an aura, no?

While I could see the Hakai potentially erasing Dormammu if Toppo touches him, thats unlikely to happen, as Dormammu uses Range attacks, and Toppo in this key doesnt really dodge attacks, if Toppo is confident of himself and try to not dodge Dormammu attacks, despite that the Hakai aura perhaps erase the energy blast, Toppo also could be destroyed due the impact alone of it

 

[Coolboy6]

He can, he can fire energy blasts, which can kill Toppo

Not to mention Vegeta was fighting with and eventually overpowering Toppo by basic punching and kicking. (Btw there’s a lot of PIS in that scene lol)

 

[Imaginym]

Frieza had difficulty holding it

But he was still able to resist it via his ki, right?
& the assassin was able to hold GoD Ki because he was given it, as opposed to being attacked by it, so that doesn't feel like evidence that you can resist GoD energy without use of ki. Going by that, the idea of resisting GoD energy without ki comes into question.

THAT DOESN’T MEAN DORMAMMU ISNT CAPABLE OF HITTING TOPPO

& Toppo is not incapable of dodging in a Speed Equalized Match.

DORMAMMU IS STRONGER HERE LOOK AT THE TIER DIFFERENCE STOP WANKING TOPPO

I generally do not consider AP/Durability as relevant factors in whether or not EE functions, & as I understand it, resisting God Energy has been done with Ki.

Also, dormammu isnt the type of the character who go H2H, his fighting style is mainly using range attacks

I'm aware of this, & I wouldn't expect the giant floating head to use hand to hand combat.

While I could see the Hakai potentially erasing Dormammu if Toppo touches him,

If my memory serves, Toppo is able to fire his GoD energy as projectiles; Melee range isn't strictly necessary.

thats unlikely to happen, as Dormammu uses Range attacks, and Toppo in this key doesnt really dodge attacks, if Toppo is confident of himself and try to not dodge Dormammu attacks, despite that the Hakai aura perhaps erase the energy blast,

Mostly for clarity -I shouldn't rely on just my own memory- quoting from Toppo's Powers & Abilities from his profile:
Aura (Can generate a protective aura of Energy of Destruction which erases energy blasts),

Toppo also could be destroyed due the impact alone of it

If the projectile is erased, why would there be an impact? (Also, would there be an impact with an energy blast? A lot of energy doesn't have mass to create an impact.)

Not to mention Vegeta was fighting with and eventually overpowering Toppo by basic punching and kicking. (Btw there’s a lot of PIS in that scene lol)

In which circumstances was this happening? Was it GoD Toppo? How was their Stamina? Which forms? & why are you citing this scene if you think it had a lot of Plot-Induced Stupidity in it?


Anyway, frankly, I'm not entirely interested in arguing that Toppo would win this match.

Why are you bumping a stomp?

This is largely why I'm debating; A stomp is a match where 1 character has no achievable win conditions.

But in theory, Toppo DOES have win conditions, doesn't he? Dodge the energy blasts, erase the building sized head made of space/time.
As I see it, the biggest obstacles to whether this is actually a POSSIBLE win condition (As opposed to a more-likely-than-not win condition) is whether or not GoD energy's erasure effects would work here. & as I understand it, it's only been shown to be resisted with Ki, something Dormammu likely lacks an equivalent to.

WOULD Toppo win? Maybe?
I'm more concerned if he has achievable win conditions.

 

[Vizer04]

He spits out a blast from his mouth and Toppo ****** dies

Toppo is protected by a Hakai barrier.

 

[Coolboy6]

Toppo is protected by a Hakai barrier.

That only works if the opponent is weaker

 

[Bernkastelll]

Toppo is protected by a Hakai barrier.

While I could see the Hakai potentially erasing Dormammu if Toppo touches him, thats unlikely to happen, as Dormammu uses Range attacks, and Toppo in this key doesnt really dodge attacks, if Toppo is confident of himself and try to not dodge Dormammu attacks, despite that the Hakai aura perhaps erase the energy blast, Toppo also could be destroyed due the impact alone of it

If the projectile is erased, why would there be an impact? (Also, would there be an impact with an energy blast? A lot of energy doesn't have mass to create an impact.)

Because it can cause impact in the enviroment itself, it doesnt really need to be aimed in Toppo directly, and despite that energy doesnt have mass, it does cause impact in fiction