God Toppo vs Dormammu (GRACE)

[Ganasto]

Voting for Toppo, I don't see how Dormammu could get past his hakai aura and Toppo should be able to erase a being made out of Space-time bc he is tier 2

 

[Orange]

I vote toppo for ganasto's reasons

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Voting Toppo as well, per reasons above.

 

[BetterThanYou]

Toppo FRA

 

[ColonelSlyBanjo]

Toppa FRA.

 

[Sus]

toppa FRA

 

[CBslayeR]

Are we sure Dormammu can't get past the Hakai aura? Vegeta could overpower his full power hakai with a big energy attack and Dormammu's energy attacks should hit way harder.

 

[Vizer04]

Are we sure Dormammu can't get past the Hakai aura? Vegeta could overpower his full power hakai with a big energy attack and Dormammu's energy attacks should hit way harder.

That's not because Vegeta was stronger, it's because he resists EE.

 

[DarlingAurora]

Toppo FRA.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Toppo wins then, Shizuka decided

 

[Imaginym]

Are we sure Dormammu can't get past the Hakai aura? Vegeta could overpower his full power hakai with a big energy attack and Dormammu's energy attacks should hit way harder.

Was this energy attack a ranged attack, or a melee attack? I ask because....

That's not because Vegeta was stronger, it's because he resists EE.

If it WAS a ranged attack, then why would Vegeta himself resisting EE matter?

There's also the question of if Toppo's EE erases the entirety of what it hits, or just what it hits.
For example, did Toppo's Hakai ever hit the arena? If it did, did it erase the whole arena? If it didn't, why assume Toppo's Hakai would erase the whole of Dormammu, someone with Large Size Type 2?

If it takes Toppo a lot of hits to erase Dormammu, could he do it before Dormammu kills him somehow?

 

[RisingIons]

I know you know Toppo not erasing the stage is plot.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Was this energy attack a ranged attack, or a melee attack? I ask because....

If it WAS a ranged attack, then why would Vegeta himself resisting EE matter?

There's also the question of if Toppo's EE erases the entirety of what it hits, or just what it hits.
For example, did Toppo's Hakai ever hit the arena? If it did, did it erase the whole arena? If it didn't, why assume Toppo's Hakai would erase the whole of Dormammu, someone with Large Size Type 2?

If it takes Toppo a lot of hits to erase Dormammu, could he do it before Dormammu kills him somehow?

Vegeta himself is resisting EE as well as his energy attacks, other characters energy attacks were erased by toppo but vegeta's weren't.
Toppo's hakai was so powerful that the after effects warped the entire world of void and split the entire arena in half. The hakai would erase what it directly touches so one time it hit a big rock, the entire rock was erased. So if it hits dora, the entirety of his body will be erased because it's one object.

 

[Imaginym]

I know you know Toppo not erasing the stage is plot.

I assume you mean that Toppo's Hakai only erasing part of the stage rather than the entirety of the stage is Plot-Induced Stupidity, because if there was no arena, the ToP would've ended up a draw or something?
If so, is there evidence for Hakai hitting part of something, yet erasing the whole of it? There's Beerus, but he's far more skilled & experience as a God of Destruction & in using Hakai, by a matter of centuries.

Vegeta himself is resisting EE as well as his energy attacks, other characters energy attacks were erased by toppo but vegeta's weren't.
Toppo's hakai was so powerful that the after effects warped the entire world of void and split the entire arena in half. The hakai would erase what it directly touches so one time it hit a big rock, the entire rock was erased. So if it hits dora, the entirety of his body will be erased because it's one object.

Other than "Dora" as shorthand for "Dormammu", this seems reasonable to me at least.
Weird for it to erase a big rock that was presumably once a part of the arena, but not the rest of the arena, but reasonable, I guess.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I assume you mean that Toppo's Hakai only erasing part of the stage rather than the entirety of the stage is Plot-Induced Stupidity, because if there was no arena, the ToP would've ended up a draw or something?
If so, is there evidence for Hakai hitting part of something, yet erasing the whole of it? There's Beerus, but he's far more skilled & experience as a God of Destruction & in using Hakai, by a matter of centuries.

Other than "Dora" as shorthand for "Dormammu", this seems reasonable to me at least.
Weird for it to erase a big rock that was presumably once a part of the arena, but not the rest of the arena, but reasonable, I guess.

I can send you the scan if you want.

 

[Imaginym]

I can send you the scan if you want.

Which scan? But sure, I guess.

 

[WarriorofMite]

Vegeta himself is resisting EE as well as his energy attacks, other characters energy attacks were erased by toppo but vegeta's weren't.

Being resistant to EE shouldn't make your attacks as well. I'm not sure of the connection that could be made of that. There is also the fact that this is contradicted by Frieza. He resisted Sidra's Hakai energy so has resistance to EE. In the ToP, Frieza made a huge energy ball to try and kill Toppo and Toppo's Hakai energy DID destroy it, with ease. So EE being connected to energy attacks can't be true.

Dormammu's attack should be able to hit Toppo just fine. His AP would be higher to over power like Vegeta as well since Toppo's AP is Universal+ vs Dormammu's Low Multiversal.

The hakai would erase what it directly touches so one time it hit a big rock, the entire rock was erased. So if it hits dora, the entirety of his body will be erased because it's one object.

That same rock you talked about was attached to the ToP arena. It should have nuked the whole stage then. Even if you consider this plot, there's also later on when Vegeta is Hakai training and he uses Hakai on a waterfall that is dropping logs before they fight Granolah. It simply blows a large crater across the mouth of the waterfall. All of it was connected, shouldn't that have technically nuked the whole planet or a massively larger area? More so in Vegeta's case as he is not as good a Hakai user as Beerus. Vegeta during training should be prone to making mistakes and not being able to control it's destructive nature as well.

 

[Orange]

1- why would dourmamo's low multiversal attacks matter if they don't have any resistance to EE? Heck, he himself doesn't have it, the moment his attacks lands on toppo they will get erased, unless he has EE, which clearly he doesn't
2- Why are you using the manga when there is 0 connection between it and the anime?

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

2- Why are you using the manga when there is 0 connection between it and the anime?

Yeah, No **** sherlock.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Which scan? But sure, I guess.

In this video he breaks the arena in half and warps the void and he also uses a tiny speck on hakai power to erase entirety of a supernova energy attack.
And in this video at 1:38, toppo is showing his ability of destroying a giant rubble by a smaller attack, though there are cases where the hakai only erases the things in it's path, as in that video, toppo made a cave in a mountain with a hakai, but when 17 destroyed it toppo simply said the word and erased all the rubble.
And in this video in 5:33, hakai destroys all the rock despite only hitting a portion.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Being resistant to EE shouldn't make your attacks as well. I'm not sure of the connection that could be made of that. There is also the fact that this is contradicted by Frieza. He resisted Sidra's Hakai energy so has resistance to EE. In the ToP, Frieza made a huge energy ball to try and kill Toppo and Toppo's Hakai energy DID destroy it, with ease. So EE being connected to energy attacks can't be true.

Dormammu's attack should be able to hit Toppo just fine. His AP would be higher to over power like Vegeta as well since Toppo's AP is Universal+ vs Dormammu's Low Multiversal.


That same rock you talked about was attached to the ToP arena. It should have nuked the whole stage then. Even if you consider this plot, there's also later on when Vegeta is Hakai training and he uses Hakai on a waterfall that is dropping logs before they fight Granolah. It simply blows a large crater across the mouth of the waterfall. All of it was connected, shouldn't that have technically nuked the whole planet or a massively larger area? More so in Vegeta's case as he is not as good a Hakai user as Beerus. Vegeta during training should be prone to making mistakes and not being able to control it's destructive nature as well.

Vegeta's energy attacks are also resistant to existence erasure because toppo could erase 17 and frieza's attacks with his passive aura but couldn't erase vegeta's energy attacks, vegeta also uses ki to defend himself against attacks so if he's resistant that also means his ki is too.
That rock was separated from the arena, just because it was touching it doesn't mean it should also erase the arena as well. Don't use examples from the manga.

 

[Imaginym]

In this video he breaks the arena in half and warps the void and he also uses a tiny speck on hakai power to erase entirety of a supernova energy attack.
And in this video at 1:38, toppo is showing his ability of destroying a giant rubble by a smaller attack, though there are cases where the hakai only erases the things in it's path, as in that video, toppo made a cave in a mountain with a hakai, but when 17 destroyed it toppo simply said the word and erased all the rubble.
And in this video in 5:33, hakai destroys all the rock despite only hitting a portion.

Haven't had the time to check right now, but much appreciated.

 

[WarriorofMite]

Vegeta's energy attacks are also resistant to existence erasure because toppo could erase 17 and frieza's attacks with his passive aura but couldn't erase vegeta's energy attacks, vegeta also uses ki to defend himself against attacks so if he's resistant that also means his ki is too.

Frieza is resistant to EE too. So how did his energy attack get destroyed by Hakai when Vegeta's didn't?

That rock was separated from the arena, just because it was touching it doesn't mean it should also erase the arena as well. Don't use examples from the manga.

When Toppo was chasing 17 he used Hakai on a boulder and it only erased a portion big enough for his body and not the whole thing.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Frieza is resistant to EE too. So how did his energy attack get destroyed by Hakai when Vegeta's didn't?


When Toppo was chasing 17 he used Hakai on a boulder and it only erased a portion big enough for his body and not the whole thing.

Good point. Because frieza himself is stronger than his own death beam. But vegeta's attack is stronger than what toppo's hakai can destroy.
That sometimes happens, but right after, toppo says hakai and destroys all the rubble without touching all of it.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

This is a stomp. Dormammu has no wincons here here if this whole "hakai aura means Toppo can't be hurt" is considered true.

Mind Manip was brought up, but that wouldn't work since Dormammu only did it on people who explicitly drew on him for power. We don't consider abilities that are just straight up inapplicable to combat purposes as wincons.

 

[Vizer04]

Does anyone want to make an argument for Dormammu?

 

[RisingIons]

Would like to inform the crowd that ki doesn't necessarily need to be involved to get rid of Hakai. Beerus blew away Sidra's hakai with his breath, granted it was only a small portion.

 

[Orange]

And you need feats of resisting EE and void to wistand the hakai