God of War Supporters Pull a Helios ⌈Magic Resistance Removal⌋

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

As in, they attempted to deceive someone with severe anger issues and are now facing the consequences of their actions.

God of War characters resist magic for the following reason:

Divine Magic (Gods and magic users resist the innate properties of their magics)

There are no citations on the individual pages themselves, so let's do a bit of digging. The explanation page is similarly vague as to the source of this claim:

Magic: Gods are immune to the innate properties of their magics. This applies across all pantheons and generations.

This is the only mention the explanation page makes of a broad resistance to magic. This isn't entirely useless, however, as it only says "gods" and does not mention magic users in general. Still, this claim had to come from somewhere, so let's look at the original upgrade thread (and the thread that actually applied these changes). These are the reasons given for the gods possessing resistance to magic:

• Poseidon can shoot lightning out of his hands without ill effect.
• Zeus and Hades can survive having their own magic shot back at them.
• Thor is unaffected by his own lightning, but is consumed by it upon his death.
• Kratos adapts to and resists Atlas' magic.

I will not be discussing the validity of these claims (yet). Rather, let's go back to the very first justification I quoted; You can see it mentions "magic users" alongside gods. This is why mortals such as the Redeemed Warrior have resistance to magic. However, none of the evidence pertains to mortals, and is only ever in reference to the gods. Similarly, the original upgrade CRTs never mention that mortals would also gain this resistance. This is easily proven by just, reading the CRTs:

Gods should resist their own innate magic's base properties.

Freya gets Resistance to Bifrost Magic, as all gods (Irrespective of their pantheons) are able to resist their own innate basic magics

She would also get resistance to Vanir Magic due to again, Gods resisting their innate base magics and the Vanir themselves not being inundated by their own magics toying with time for fun.

All Gods should get resistance to Divine Magics/Runic Magics

Gna should get resistance to the following:

• Bifrost Magic: Since Gods are able to resist their own innate base magics and because she can take hits from Dodher’s Glaive (Chakram Bifrosts)
• Seidr Magic: As she can withstand hits from the Hilt of Dainsleif
• Vanir Magic: As she can withstand her own electric powers being reflected back at her by Kratos, and because Gods are able to resist their own innate base magics

Resistance to their own innate magic powers: The Gods are visibly unharmed by using their own powers or having it be turned against them with the Golden Fleece, as was determined in this CRT. This actually applies to all Gods, irrespective of their Pantheon (This wouldn't apply to any powers that is unique solely to themselves)

So GoW supporters know this ability only applies to gods. The threads only gave evidence that this applied to gods. Moderators evaluated and approved these resistances under the impression that they only applied to gods. Despite this, GoW supporters applied this change to all magic users, including those who aren't gods, even though that was never evaluated by anyone. If you wanna play devil's advocate and say maybe the changes came from a different thread, then you'd also have to explain why the thread linked in the change log is the one that never so much as mentions mortals. I'm gonna sound like a broken record at this point, but genuinely how did they keep getting away with shit like this??

TL;DR: Any mortals/non-gods need their resistance to magic removed, as this was never accepted and applied without any evidence or permission from moderators.

 

[Giannysmag]

As in, they attempt to deceive someone with severe anger issues and are now facing the consequences of their actions.

Bar

Anyway I agree with the thread

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Everything looks good, I agree.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

By the way, I just remembered something pertinent to this thread. The Redeemed Warrior technically has resistance to magic via the elemental resistance stat granted by pieces of armor in Ascension's multiplayer mode, but that would be a trait of the armor itself, not the person wearing it. The fact that most of their arms and armor come directly from the gods also doesn't help prove that mortals are universally resistant to magic.

 

[Eseseso]

Helios? Come on, I'm more of a Heimdall for sure.

Anyways, this seems ok.

 

[Theglassman12]

Do you mind changing the title to something that isn't blatantly trying to antagonize a group of supporters on the site? This doesn't look any different from how you antagonized the DBH supporters and got reported and forum banned in the end.

 

[chosen]

They can take magic hits from each other in gameplay without getting one shotted, so shouldn't they at least just resist the default dura neg effect of magic but change the reasoning to this?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Do you mind changing the title to something that isn't blatantly trying to antagonize a group of supporters on the site? This doesn't look any different from how you antagonized the DBH supporters and got reported and forum banned in the end.

It's a bit strange (and concerning) that lying about what was accepted in a CRT is somehow less of an offense than saying "hey these guys lied about what got accepted in that CRT". Why would you not direct your anger towards people who are making you and other GoW supporters look bad by doing what is essentially vandalism, instead of the person making a joke about how all of this was just a lie?

They can take magic hits from each other in gameplay without getting one shotted, so shouldn't they at least just resist the default dura neg effect of magic but change the reasoning to this?

Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1) (All magic is an abstraction that predates and encompasses reality and a manifestation of the soul. Souls are composed of their form, that is the metaphysical nature of a being, their luck, their mind, and their direction, which guides their path to their respective afterlife as per Mimir's words[6])

What about this would suggest magic can innately harm the soul? All this says is that magic is a manifestation of the soul, and an earlier section says magic and the soul are one and the same (let's ignore the fact that those contradict each other, point is that neither of these can be equated to some kind of dura neg). If the dura neg isn't from the soul manipulation, then please tell me where it's from, because the explanation page doesn't say anything that would imply any degree of durability negation.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

OP is pretty straight forward. Good job.

I agree with the CRT.

 

[RaveeCPN]

Yeah, straightforward enough IMO. I agree

 

[chosen]

What about this would suggest magic can innately harm the soul?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/god-of-war-crt-general-magic-additions.165023/
"All magic used by beings can affect the soul and is channeled from the world through there. Giving general magic used by the characters Soul Manipulation, , Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1)." The original thread that gave that also did it cuz they in general can affect it given it isn't in profiles. So atm magic in general has soul fuckery manipulation cuz it can affect souls as well

I work on other verses atm tho so can't say more on situation

 

[Starsprite53]

It's a bit strange (and concerning) that lying about what was accepted in a CRT is somehow less of an offense than saying "hey these guys lied about what got accepted in that CRT". Why would you not direct your anger towards people who are making you and other GoW supporters look bad by doing what is essentially vandalism, instead of the person making a joke about how all of this was just a lie?

Fuji, seriously, no one likes mockery and spite, like at all. It’s not helping anyone.Even if some people messed up in the CRT, the right thing to do is to fix it, not to antagonize or joke about it.People are trying to keep this community constructive and antagonizing groups and making inflammatory remarks only worsens the situation really. I guess if you’ve got an issue, address it directly and respectfully, instead of making it a bigger mess.
Anyways, the OP is straightforward and I obviously agree.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/god-of-war-crt-general-magic-additions.165023/
"All magic used by beings can affect the soul and is channeled from the world through there. Giving general magic used by the characters Soul Manipulation, , Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1)." The original thread that gave that also did it cuz they in general can affect it given it isn't in profiles. So atm magic in general has soul fuckery manipulation cuz it can affect souls as well

I work on other verses atm tho so can't say more on situation

Okay, but that doesn't give more context. It's just the same evidence we have now (magic/the soul are the same, and magic is a manifestation of the soul) being used to come to a totally unrelated conclusion (magic and the soul are the same, so all magic can harm the soul[???]). It makes 0 goddamn sense if you think about it for more than a second.

Fuji, seriously, no one likes mockery and spite, like at all. It’s not helping anyone.Even if some people messed up in the CRT, the right thing to do is to fix it, not to antagonize or joke about it.People are trying to keep this community constructive and antagonizing groups and making inflammatory remarks only worsens the situation really. I guess if you’ve got an issue, address it directly and respectfully, instead of making it a bigger mess.
Anyways, the OP is straightforward and I obviously agree.

"Messed up" this is the fourth time something like this has happened. I find it hard to believe someone could vandalize a profile four times on accident. How often does a verse supporter need to get away with lying before calling them a liar is justifiable?

 

[ShionAH]

I reread several times the OP, what part exacly is Fuji insulting them? It seems more like she is simply stating and being confused how GoW supports got away with rule violation


Edit: OP looks good btw, Agree.

 

[Georredannea15]

Fuji, be more careful when you look at threads from now on because the things you mentioned in the OP are literally accepted here. If you want to downgrade, start a different thread but delete “should be downgraded because it is not an accepted CRT”

You might look more carefully before you slander

That's the thread...

God of War CRT: General Magic Additions

Introduction Yeah, it's another one. This time I'm re-structuring the series' magic and treatment of souls, specifically applying the ability to affect the soul as a general ability of magic. Magic, Lifeforce, and the Soul There's always been a tie between magic, the soul, and lifeforce, which...

vsbattles.com

In short, I will say that nobody added it to the profiles on their own accord without any subject. I think there are not many questions left about this thread, so if you don't want to open a separate downgrade, just close this thread because there are already other threads about GoW.

 

[Starsprite53]

"Messed up" this is the fourth time something like this has happened. I find it hard to believe someone could vandalize a profile four times on accident. How often does a verse supporter need to get away with lying before calling them a liar is justifiable?

I'm not defending them tf nor I said they did it on accident (I literally agreed with you), it just antagonizing them (and how spiteful each opening of threads look like) is uncalled for in my opinion

I reread several times the OP, what part exacly is Fuji insulting them? It seems more like she is simply stating and being confused how GoW supports got away with rule violation

where did I say anything about insulting? You're confused between mockery and insult. Mockery is about ridicule while insulting is about personal attack and similar shit

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Fuji, be more careful when you look at threads from now on because the things you mentioned in the OP are literally accepted here. If you want to downgrade, start a different thread but delete “should be downgraded because it is not an accepted CRT”

You might look more carefully before you slander

That's the thread...

God of War CRT: General Magic Additions

Introduction Yeah, it's another one. This time I'm re-structuring the series' magic and treatment of souls, specifically applying the ability to affect the soul as a general ability of magic. Magic, Lifeforce, and the Soul There's always been a tie between magic, the soul, and lifeforce, which...

vsbattles.com

Nothing in this thread says mortal magic users can innately resist magic. In fact, it doesn't say anything about magic resistance at all. Why is this even relevant?

 

[Georredannea15]

Nothing in this thread says mortal magic users can innately resist magic. In fact, it doesn't say anything about magic resistance at all. Why is this even relevant?

Either you can't see it or you ignore it.

This is what was accepted in a nutshell;

Conclusion​

All magic used by beings can affect the soul and is channeled from the world through there. Giving general magic used by the characters Soul Manipulation, , Mind Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1).

General magic also gets Chaos Manipulation, as in its rawest state it is primordial chaos.

The Non-Physical Interaction on the page gets a mention of being able to interact with Primordials, who are nondual beings.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Either you can't see it or you ignore it.

This is what was accepted in a nutshell;

Dude what the **** are you talking about

The words "resist" or "resistance" or any possible synonym for them do not appear anywhere in the section they quoted. This thread is about resistance to magic. So do you have evidence that mortals innately resist magic, or do you not?

 

[Dammerung0858]

"Messed up" this is the fourth time something like this has happened. I find it hard to believe someone could vandalize a profile four times on accident. How often does a verse supporter need to get away with lying before calling them a liar is justifiable?

I guess the best way I can think to put it is, it's very hard to rebuild a bridge which has been burnt? It's hard for anyone who's being accused of being a liar to consider much beyond their hurt, and I can't blame them too much. It's a bit shocking to hear, and I don't think anybody wants to be considered a liar, myself very much included. You definitely know me well enough (and I owe you enough that I hope I am not overstepping any boundaries or appearing ungrateful or hypocritical by saying this), that while it can be extremely cathartic to call it like you see it, it's not always a great way to foster a community. (And boy, have I struggled with that myself... and I'm sure I'm gonna struggle with it more in the future.) You helped me calm down back when I was just a big ol' ball of hurt and spite, and I want to pay that back!

What I think might have happened here, and what I want to believe happened here, rather than God of War supporters on VSBW being predominantly duplicitous, is that a mistake was made at some point in the past that wasn't caught and was built on over time. I know I've done it too, made an assumption based on evidence that looked good that turned out to not be as good as I thought it was. And heck, you never know, maybe there's good supporting evidence that just never ended up making it onto the main profile pages! I think it'd be super cool if that was the case, and if we could uncover it together. I don't think anybody can blame you for being frustrated, after all the successful CRTs and things you uncovered. I just don't want that spirit of truth-seeking and love of research to be shrouded by anything else. I'm pretty darn new here, but I'd like to think that's what brought us all here. (That, and imagining imaginary people punch each other accurately, of course!)

And, of course, I almost forgot to mention... I otherwise fully agree with the information you found. I don't think there's enough information to support magic users (non-godly ones, specifically) resisting their own magic.

Either you can't see it or you ignore it.

This is what was accepted in a nutshell;

Hi Georredannea15, I'm sorry for being difficult, but I think I'm on the same page as Mad Dog of Fujiwara. I'm not seeing anything about magic users resisting their own magic included in this nutshell. Can you emphasize the sentence you're thinking of? I'm sorry again to be a bother about this. And thank you for linking the thread, I'll definitely check it out when I have a little more time!

 

[CurrySenpai]

Wow, I didn't think we could go deeer.

I agree

 

[Deagonx]

I cannot fathom that the phrase "pull a helios" is significant enough to warrant any level of controversy.

In any case, it seems clear cut here that these changes were made erroneously. They should indeed be removed.

Also, @Georredannea15 I have just removed your most recent comment, as it (and the one prior to it that you made) were inflammatory. You were threadbanned from the last thread because you couldn't stop doing this. If it happens again in this thread I will simply do the same thing. You have a right to participate here and make your thoughts known, you do not have a right to argue in a manner that involves accusing your opponent of not reading something in every single reply you make.

If you take issue with some part of this, you may take it up on my wall. If you attempt to turn the thread into a venue for airing your grievances about moderation or etc, those will also be removed. This is not the place for such a discussion.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I guess the best way I can think to put it is, it's very hard to rebuild a bridge which has been burnt? It's hard for anyone who's being accused of being a liar to consider much beyond their hurt, and I can't blame them too much. It's a bit shocking to hear, and I don't think anybody wants to be considered a liar, myself very much included. You definitely know me well enough (and I owe you enough that I hope I am not overstepping any boundaries or appearing ungrateful or hypocritical by saying this), that while it can be extremely cathartic to call it like you see it, it's not always a great way to foster a community. (And boy, have I struggled with that myself... and I'm sure I'm gonna struggle with it more in the future.) You helped me calm down back when I was just a big ol' ball of hurt and spite, and I want to pay that back!

What I think might have happened here, and what I want to believe happened here, rather than God of War supporters on VSBW being predominantly duplicitous, is that a mistake was made at some point in the past that wasn't caught and was built on over time. I know I've done it too, made an assumption based on evidence that looked good that turned out to not be as good as I thought it was. And heck, you never know, maybe there's good supporting evidence that just never ended up making it onto the main profile pages! I think it'd be super cool if that was the case, and if we could uncover it together. I don't think anybody can blame you for being frustrated, after all the successful CRTs and things you uncovered. I just don't want that spirit of truth-seeking and love of research to be shrouded by anything else. I'm pretty darn new here, but I'd like to think that's what brought us all here. (That, and imagining imaginary people punch each other accurately, of course!)

And, of course, I almost forgot to mention... I otherwise fully agree with the information you found. I don't think there's enough information to support magic users (non-godly ones, specifically) resisting their own magic.

Hi Georredannea15, I'm sorry for being difficult, but I think I'm on the same page as Mad Dog of Fujiwara. I'm not seeing anything about magic users resisting their own magic included in this nutshell. Can you emphasize the sentence you're thinking of? I'm sorry again to be a bother about this. And thank you for linking the thread, I'll definitely check it out when I have a little more time!

I understand where you're coming from, of course, and I'll take this opportunity to step away for a bit to clear my head (I'm a bit busy at the moment, anyways). However, I think this also might be coming from a place of unfamiliarity with VSBW's rules; When someone makes a change to a profile, like adding a new ability, it must first be evaluated and approved by staff members. This is to ensure that the wiki doesn't devolve into utter chaos. This is a requirement for all members, and is something we take very seriously; We even have a thread dedicated to reporting unauthorized edits, as we consider them vandalism. So whether or not there was valid evidence doesn't matter in this case, because that evidence was never posted anywhere and wasn't evaluated by staff. Thus, it cannot be added, no matter how good that hypothetical evidence may be.

Apologies if I came off as overly harsh, though. I've just seen this happen a lot with GoW, and it's frustrating to see vandalism get swept under the rug so frequently. We as a wiki should be better than that.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I understand where you're coming from, of course, and I'll take this opportunity to step away for a bit to clear my head (I'm a bit busy at the moment, anyways). However, I think this also might be coming from a place of unfamiliarity with VSBW's rules; When someone makes a change to a profile, like adding a new ability, it must first be evaluated and approved by staff members. This is to ensure that the wiki doesn't devolve into utter chaos. This is a requirement for all members, and is something we take very seriously; We even have a thread dedicated to reporting unauthorized edits, as we consider them vandalism. So whether or not there was valid evidence doesn't matter in this case, because that evidence was never posted anywhere and wasn't evaluated by staff. Thus, it cannot be added, no matter how good that hypothetical evidence may be.

Apologies if I came off as overly harsh, though. I've just seen this happen a lot with GoW, and it's frustrating to see vandalism get swept under the rug so frequently. We as a wiki should be better than that.

Actually, there's a pretty good direct example I can point to here. Oceanus formerly had "creation and life manipulation" for the act of having a lot of sex. This is blatantly incorrect and I think everyone agrees with me on that (it's become somewhat of a joke on this forum). However, despite how staggeringly wrong it was, I couldn't just remove it whenever I wanted, and needed to make a thread first. It's like that with everything here, for better and for worse.

 

[Georredannea15]

Anyway, I'll keep this thing out of this thread.


The reason why abilities basically scale as resistances is because of the mechanic the verse is in and the UES, the GoW page explains this in more detail. You can take a look there. @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Anyway, I'll keep this thing out of this thread.


The reason why abilities basically scale as resistances is because of the mechanic the verse is in and the UES, the GoW page explains this in more detail. You can take a look there. @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara

I have read and reread the explanation page more times than is healthy for a human being. The page makes no mention of such a concept. You may ctrl + F the word "resist" and see for yourself that what you claim to be on the page simply isn't there. In fact, I did precisely that before making this thread to ensure I didn't miss anything.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara its not a lie, you didn’t pay attention to the magic UES thread where this was accepted that anyone that has some form of access to magic has these abilities, which by default means anyone that can shrug off magic attacks would resist these abilities that Magic has. Second off that doesn’t change the fact you’re antagonizing and instigating drama to a bunch of supporters because of an upgrade by calling them all liars without paying attention to the thread that got accepted in the first place. You literally started antagonizing the DBH fans in a very similar fashion and you got forum banned, you keep this up and you will be reported.

 

[Georredannea15]

I have read and reread the explanation page more times than is healthy for a human being. The page makes no mention of such a concept. You may ctrl + F the word "resist" and see for yourself that what you claim to be on the page simply isn't there. In fact, I did precisely that before making this thread to ensure I didn't miss anything.

Levels of Magical Powers​

This section details the various levels of magic and resistance that are possessed by specific characters in the setting.

Mind, Soul, Luck and Personal Concepts​

Souls are composed of their form, that is the metaphysical nature of a being, their luck, their mind, and their direction, which guides their path to their respective afterlife as per Mimir's words.[6] Not only that but they are constructs of pure magic.

Below are the levels to which magics affect the soul and its aspects, as well as the resistance to them. Starting with the Greek World;

I took this from the magic page, both in Greek and Norse mythology, abilities give you resistance at the level you have, it's actually longer and more detailed there, but for simplicity, here it is

As you can see, it is clearly stated that those with abilities have the same level of resistance to these abilities.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

which by default means anyone that can shrug off magic attacks would resist these abilities that Magic has.

This part is missing for the mortal magic users I think

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I took this from the magic page, both in Greek and Norse mythology, abilities give you resistance at the level you have, it's actually longer and more detailed there, but for simplicity, here it is

As you can see, it is clearly stated that those with abilities have the same level of resistance to these abilities.

This does not say mortals innately resist magic, or that resistance to magic is a universal trait among magic users. It is a series of characters resisting specific applications of magic, like the siren's shriek. So again, not particularly relevant here.

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara its not a lie, you didn’t pay attention to the magic UES thread where this was accepted that anyone that has some form of access to magic has these abilities, which by default means anyone that can shrug off magic attacks would resist these abilities that Magic has. Second off that doesn’t change the fact you’re antagonizing and instigating drama to a bunch of supporters because of an upgrade by calling them all liars without paying attention to the thread that got accepted in the first place. You literally started antagonizing the DBH fans in a very similar fashion and you got forum banned, you keep this up and you will be reported.

The thread never said that anywhere, Glass. The OP never mentioned that every jackass who can throw a fireball resists getting his soul annihilated, or anything of the sort. Furthermore, magic's "soul manipulation" does not actually harm the soul, because the only two justifications for it are as follows:

-Magic is a manifestation of the soul.
-Magic and the soul are the same.

Why would either of these indicate all magic can directly harm the soul?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Adem_Warlock69 then that's just the page not being as clear cut as it should be as opposed to it being flat out lying.

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara The fact Magic and the Soul are the same, and people can mess with other's magic in some way shape or form means that their soul is being messed as a result, that sounds like basic deductive reasoning to me, plus the whole point of UES is that this is a Universal (AKA common) thing that the series has, ergo something like soul hax would be universal across the board if it's literally one and the same as magic. Bleach has a very similar UES with how everything with Spirit energy is tied to one's soul, and anyone that has Spirit energy just by default can shrug off soul hax and whatever else is tied to the nature of the soul in bleach. If none of this makes any sense to you then Idk what else to tell you other than you just don't understand UES.

 

[Georredannea15]

This does not say mortals innately resist magic, or that resistance to magic is a universal trait among magic users. It is a series of characters resisting specific applications of magic, like the siren's shriek. So again, not particularly relevant here.

I'm sorry but that's how UES works in the verse. So any being(human, god, demigod... etc) that has and uses magic will have it by default. This is why UES is on the wiki. In fact, this is basically how UES works on the wiki.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Will reply later because I'm at work but saying I don't understand the concept of a UES is very funny. God forbid I disagree with you, because that just means I'm stupid, apparently.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'm sorry but that's how UES works in verse. So any being that has and uses magic will have it by default. This is why UES is on the wiki. In fact, this is basically how UES works on the wiki.

...You can't be serious man. The use of a UES does NOT give you resistance to every application of that UES. It doesn't give you any innate resistances at all, actually. Can you please point to where on the UES page it says every UES grants innate resistances to that UES?

 

[Georredannea15]

Will reply later because I'm at work but saying I don't understand the concept of a UES is very funny. God forbid I disagree with you, because that just means I'm stupid, apparently.

He just told you how UES works on the wiki and in the verse...

 

[Georredannea15]

...You can't be serious man. The use of a UES does NOT give you resistance to every application of that UES. It doesn't give you any innate resistances at all, actually. Can you please point to where on the UES page it says every UES grants innate resistances to that UES?

If you look at the part I quoted on the page in the verse, it says that you have these abilities and that it gives you resistance to the abilities you have.

Well, you said that these resistances were added profiles without approval from any thread, but both UES and the thread I quoted above clearly show that this is not true.

So instead of just saying "UES won't give it", just read the text on the page

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

He just told you how UES works on the wiki and in the verse...

Well, what he told me is incorrect because that is never how we've treated universal energy systems on the site.

If you look at the part I quoted on the page in the verse, it says that you have these abilities and that it gives you resistance to the abilities you have.

Well, you said that these resistances were added profiles without approval from any thread, but both UES and the thread I quoted above clearly show that this is not true.

So instead of just saying "UES won't give it", read the text on the page

I don't care what it says because the evidence does not match up with the claim. I'm saying the page is wrong, and your only refutation to that is "no the page isn't wrong, because the page says this is right". That's not a proper argument.

Also, the section you're quoting doesn't even say all magic users resist magic, it just gives some specific examples of some characters resisting different hax. Why would Kratos resisting a siren's shriek mean the Redeemed Warrior can resist, say, Zeus' lightning? What is the correlation between Kratos doing XYZ and XYZ being a common ability everyone has access to?

 

[Deagonx]

Yeah I don't really understand this argument. If we're saying these people have a resistance then we're saying that it affects them less than it ought to, were it inflicted upon a target that lacks the resistance. What basis do we have for saying that? Being able to use magic doesn't mean you resist it, and not dying instantaneously to magic doesn't mean you're resisting it.

 

[Georredannea15]

Well, what he told me is incorrect because that is never how we've treated universal energy systems on the site.

Bleach is a good example of this, but I won't discuss that with you.

I don't care what it says because the evidence does not match up with the claim. I'm saying the page is wrong, and your only refutation to that is "no the page isn't wrong, because the page says this is right". That's not a proper argument.

On the contrary, you keep saying "that's not how the page and UES work, no that's not true" but the page I quoted also states this clearly.

Fuji, just... Don't reject something for the sake of rejecting it.

Also ;

• Universal Energy System: Universal Energy Systems (alternatively called a Universal Power System or a Connective Energy System) are systems in which a feat, whether it is one of physical statistics (Striking Strength or Durability) or of supernatural powers (e.g. energy beams), would also scale to all other statistics. That means if such a character for instance demonstrates a Building level fireball spell, they would be assumed to have at least Building level Striking Strength, Attack Potency and Durability. If they have other spells, like for example water blades, they would be assumed to be able to output similar attack power with those spells.

Universal Energy Systems are a fairly common element in fictional stories possessed by certain characters to display incredible feats and powers, often being born out of fantastical or otherwise otherworldly elements such as Magic, Chakra, Chi and a myriad of other possible energy systems. Often the argument is made for a character’s specific powers to scale linearly to their physical statistics and other supernatural abilities in their arsenal, oftentimes being matched by an opposing view that these powers should be their own matter entirely.

In short, the purpose of UES is to have the abilities or powers that qualify for this nature scale to an equivalent degree by default.
If you can use "X" ability because of UES, you will be able to use all its equivalent abilities and also gain resistance. Because the page states that you "scale by default" to all other abilities or stats

Also, the section you're quoting doesn't even say all magic users resist magic, it just gives some specific examples of some characters resisting different hax. Why would Kratos resisting a siren's shriek mean the Redeemed Warrior can resist, say, Zeus' lightning? What is the correlation between Kratos doing XYZ and XYZ being a common ability everyone has access to?

The page only describes some specific abilities, there are many more abilities like that and then states that they are the same nature because to UES, as I said the page is very long, I just gave you the "quote where abilities are also noted as resistances".

However, the page explains that they are of the same nature, and I quote this as well ;

Universal Power​

The above applies for all pantheons, including the Nordic lands, seeing as runes connect all,[46] it can amplify perceptions and senses.[47] Also showcased by the fact that Atreus's bow is effective solely because it uses magic.[48]

But on top of all of this, when Kratos clarifies the origin of the primordial fire in his Blades, Surtr himself reminds us that the origin of primordial magic doesn't matter,[49] and indeed, this same magic takes the place of Sinmara's heart to allow Surtr to become Ragnarok. As such, magic itself, regardless of mythical origin would scale to the same level and potency.

What is said in this quote is not much different from what is said on the UES page.

Magics/Forces has the same nature, and this is basically UES, where by all abilities scale with each other by default and scale with those using those abilities.

 

[Georredannea15]

Yeah I don't really understand this argument. If we're saying these people have a resistance then we're saying that it affects them less than it ought to, were it inflicted upon a target that lacks the resistance. What basis do we have for saying that? Being able to use magic doesn't mean you resist it, and not dying instantaneously to magic doesn't mean you're resisting it.

I've explained it in detail in my comments above, and even the UES page itself states this clearly, saying "abilities and stats scaled by default."

If you have a problem with that, then... Just open a revision on the UES page on the wiki. Because that's how UES works on the wiki. And that's why there's UES anyway, it's directly related to the nature of magic/force. If you have the same nature, you get UES and having it scales you to all abilities and stats by default