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God of War: Ragnarok Discussion Thread

KLOL506 said:
They think a lot of other dumb shit like how Kratos isn't as strong as the gods without his weapons like they'd even matter if the weapon is only as good as its wielder.
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The site had kratos physically scaling to people like zeus And shit actually. It's just that he wasn't scaling to boo
 
chosen said:
Hope > Fear
Using Fear Zeus gged Golden Fleece which back in gow 2 can take a boo hit so in no world boo without hope amp should scqle to hope
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The Fleece took multiple hits from Zeus w/ BoO in the GoW3 QTE as well. The Fleece is just tough as nails.
 
chosen said:
The idea gods resist their innate magic flowimg through them in general comes from the spear taking their magic to attack also takes things like bifrost resistance?
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No, it comes from the Gods withstanding their own usage of their magics, like how Poseidon isn't harmed when his own magic is shot out through his hands. Kratos had a fear of accidentally frying himself with the lightning he was bestowed upon by Zeus since he wasn't a god and all, but the Gods don't care for their magics much, they do just fine with it.
 
KLOL506 said:
No, it comes from the Gods withstanding their own usage of their magics, like how Poseidon isn't harmed when his own magic is shot out through his hands. Kratos had a fear of accidentally frying himself with the lightning he was bestowed upon by Zeus since he wasn't a god and all, but the Gods don't care for their magics much, they do just fine with it.
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Ohhh i see sounds lije mainly Novel stuff then
I assume the statament is like in the scene where zeus bestows kratos?
 
Where do people scale Tyr usually? Because he's clearly pretty strong, but it's worth noting that Kratos was nerfed during the events of Valhalla, so it's kind of hard to gauge how strong he'd be if Kratos wasn't nerfed into the ground. Kratos considered him one of the most formidable opponents he's ever faced though, so it's kind of confusing. Do people put him around Thor level, or slightly higher or lower?
 
Wait now that thor has resistance to bifrost magic who has realm tear hax in tje blog wouodnt thor vs nidhogg outcome change or Resistance part was only talking about the dura neg
 
Egarroyo0330 said:
Where do people scale Tyr usually? Because he's clearly pretty strong, but it's worth noting that Kratos was nerfed during the events of Valhalla, so it's kind of hard to gauge how strong he'd be if Kratos wasn't nerfed into the ground. Kratos considered him one of the most formidable opponents he's ever faced though, so it's kind of confusing. Do people put him around Thor level, or slightly higher or lower?
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Tyr is definitely around Thor level and the nerf isn't that extreme without the Breach.
 
Actually Just thought about it
For the magic cases that not everything done With it we separate in 2-3

Innate (every user has)

Exclusive (not mastery but has thing innate doesn't)

Mastery (what they gain once they master the magic)
Might be trippin and no Magic has the 2 case, suggesting that cux pretty sure noy every seidr magic user will pull what odin did to Freya for exemple. If is denied its fine
 
chosen said:
Actually Just thought about it
For the magic cases that not everything done With it we separate in 2-3

Innate (every user has)

Exclusive (not mastery but has thing innate doesn't)

Mastery (what they gain once they master the magic)
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There's no point, we compiled all the abilities into one single Magic Explanation page. Which is why we got rid of the "innate", "magical", "Mastery" stuff for the Norse Gods.

chosen said:
Might be trippin and no Magic has the 2 case, suggesting that cux pretty sure noy every seidr magic user will pull what odin did to Freya for exemple. If is denied its fine
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Most of Odin's abilities are unique and don't fall under the typical magic types. It'd be redundancy.
 
chosen said:
No i am talking about the curse bs cuz is the first hax in the Seidr section but fair enough otherwise
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Curse Manipulation is standard for Seidr because of the whole soul-corruption thing, but Odin has other feats going for him in that department too.
 
KLOL506 said:
Curse Manipulation is standard for Seidr because of the whole soul-corruption thing, but Odin has other feats going for him in that department too.
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Okay yeah mb here misremembered. Its the Statistics Reduction and power null That's the first hax in Seidr magic section which only uses what Odin used to Freya (which iirc only him and Freya Would be able to do this) but eh ig that work anyways
 
KLOL506 said:
Tyr is definitely around Thor level and the nerf isn't that extreme without the Breach.
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Are you sure the nerf isn't that extreme, remember it brought all of Kratos's weapons and gear back to level one, even his stats were reduced heavily, and even when you upgrade them, they are still lower than they would be normally, with any decent gear. It seemed to be a decently heavy nerf.
 
Egarroyo0330 said:
Are you sure the nerf isn't that extreme, remember it brought all of Kratos's weapons and gear back to level one, even his stats were reduced heavily, and even when you upgrade them, they are still lower than they would be normally, with any decent gear. It seemed to be a decently heavy nerf.
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Gameplay wise, yes bit you're canonically just Kratos without gear. The only real nerf was the Curse of Breaching, which you lose. As far as the story goes, this is just Post-Ragnarok Kratos without his armour and perfected weapons.

Tyr is also considered among "the most formidable opponents he has ever faced" by Kratos, which would negate any supposed downscaling. Sigrun, whose seen most of the Norse pantheon, considered him "peerless".

So, he's relative to Post-Ragnarok Kratos.
 
Planck69 said:
Gameplay wise, yes bit you're canonically just Kratos without gear. The only real nerf was the Curse of Breaching, which you lose. As far as the story goes, this is just Post-Ragnarok Kratos without his armour and perfected weapons.

Tyr is also considered among "the most formidable opponents he has ever faced" by Kratos, which would negate any supposed downscaling. Sigrun, whose seen most of the Norse pantheon, considered him "peerless".

So, he's relative to Post-Ragnarok Kratos.
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But wouldn't Kratos without the gear be a good deal weaker? He was in the first Thor fight, it's why he had so much trouble, when he had decent equipment he didn't have that much trouble with Thor. I still think Tyr is really strong, but sometimes I don't know how accurate Kratos's statements are, the codex included, Kratos seems to downplay himself a lot, like when he says Freya might have beaten him, or how he would need Atreus to beat Thor, I think he is just too humble most of the time, not that Freya, Thor and Tyr aren't strong, as they are some of the strongest Norse Gods.

It's also worth noting that Kratos seems to be comparing them to his base self and not enraged self, and while the mural indicated he'd lose if he was bloodlusted, it's unclear as to how, we know Kratos is stronger in Rage mode, gameplay and lore wise, so how would he lose to Thor if he was truly enraged? Odin showing up and helping Thor is more what I thought would have happened to beat Kratos, but we can't know for sure. Also, Kratos doesn't even his best gear or magics from Olympus as he points out, so who knows how strong he'd be if he did.

All that being said, I'd probably still put Tyr at Thor level bare minimum, I might even have him slightly higher due to better versatility and skill. He's probably only slightly weaker and slower, which I think his skill and various magics could make up for.
 
Egarroyo0330 said:
But wouldn't Kratos without the gear be a good deal weaker? He was in the first Thor fight, it's why he had so much trouble, when he had decent equipment he didn't have that much trouble with Thor. I still think Tyr is really strong, but sometimes I don't know how accurate Kratos's statements are, the codex included, Kratos seems to downplay himself a lot, like when he says Freya might have beaten him, or how he would need Atreus to beat Thor, I think he is just too humble most of the time, not that Freya, Thor and Tyr aren't strong, as they are some of the strongest Norse Gods.
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Why would that matter? His gear aren't game-changers, his Rage is. His weapons are only as good as he is.

Egarroyo0330 said:
It's also worth noting that Kratos seems to be comparing them to his base self and not enraged self, and while the mural indicated he'd lose if he was bloodlusted, it's unclear as to how, we know Kratos is stronger in Rage mode, gameplay and lore wise, so how would he lose to Thor if he was truly enraged? Odin showing up and helping Thor is more what I thought would have happened to beat Kratos, but we can't know for sure. Also, Kratos doesn't even his best gear or magics from Olympus as he points out, so who knows how strong he'd be if he did.
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Kratos in base post-Ragnarok is pretty much comparable to his GoW3 Endgame Pre-Hope self as per dev statements. Post-Ragnarok Kratos is straight-up equal.
 
Egarroyo0330 said:
But wouldn't Kratos without the gear be a good deal weaker? He was in the first Thor fight, it's why he had so much trouble, when he had decent equipment he didn't have that much trouble with Thor. I still think Tyr is really strong, but sometimes I don't know how accurate Kratos's statements are, the codex included, Kratos seems to downplay himself a lot, like when he says Freya might have beaten him, or how he would need Atreus to beat Thor, I think he is just too humble most of the time, not that Freya, Thor and Tyr aren't strong, as they are some of the strongest Norse Gods.

It's also worth noting that Kratos seems to be comparing them to his base self and not enraged self, and while the mural indicated he'd lose if he was bloodlusted, it's unclear as to how, we know Kratos is stronger in Rage mode, gameplay and lore wise, so how would he lose to Thor if he was truly enraged? Odin showing up and helping Thor is more what I thought would have happened to beat Kratos, but we can't know for sure. Also, Kratos doesn't even his best gear or magics from Olympus as he points out, so who knows how strong he'd be if he did.

All that being said, I'd probably still put Tyr at Thor level bare minimum, I might even have him slightly higher due to better versatility and skill. He's probably only slightly weaker and slower, which I think his skill and various magics could make up for.
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Kratos is conservative but he doesn't downplay himself, what? Freya was a rival to Odin once, the statement that they're equals is absolutely sound. The Atreus statement I grant you can just be taken as encouragement and he hadn't really resolved himself to fight with his full power at the time as well.

Thor gave him trouble largely due to the fact that he held back at first. Yes, gear played a part but Kratos's power does not come from his weapons in a significant degree.

Also, the difference between his base and enraged state is there but its not really that great. Kratos himself doesn't really consider them states of being when he talks about himself.

The loss to Thor is honestly vague as hell. I agree that I can't really see how he'd have lost that battle but since we never get an answer, I dunno why we take that into account.
 
KLOL506 said:
Why would that matter? His gear aren't game-changers, his Rage is. His weapons are only as good as he is.


Kratos in base post-Ragnarok is pretty much comparable to his GoW3 Endgame Pre-Hope self as per dev statements. Post-Ragnarok Kratos is straight-up equal.
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His gear aren't game changers? Mimir and Brok point out that Fimbulwinter ruined most of his gear and magic, I doubt they would mention his armor if it didn't help at least a little bit, don't you guys use the effects that some of the armor provide, or was it only the ronds and Yggdrasil amulet? Because, if you use some of the armor effects too, some of them are very powerful, or do you just consider those one's gameplay?

I don't doubt that Post-Ragnarok Kratos is equal stat wise, if not superior, but there is no way his magic or weapons are, Brok considered the Blades to be special and they pale in comparison to the Blade of Olympus, Kratos's Runic magic also seems to be weaker for the most part then a majority of his old magic. Old Kratos is probably a better fighter and slightly stronger overall, but Young Kratos's gear and magic probably make the fight tilt in his favor, also could Old Kratos even put Young Kratos down for good without the Blade, because he and Zeus were able to stop it with their hands.
 
Planck69 said:
Kratos is conservative but he doesn't downplay himself, what? Freya was a rival to Odin once, the statement that they're equals is absolutely sound. The Atreus statement I grant you can just be taken as encouragement and he hadn't really resolved himself to fight with his full power at the time as well.

Thor gave him trouble largely due to the fact that he held back at first. Yes, gear played a part but Kratos's power does not come from his weapons in a significant degree.

Also, the difference between his base and enraged state is there but its not really that great. Kratos himself doesn't really consider them states of being when he talks about himself.

The loss to Thor is honestly vague as hell. I agree that I can't really see how he'd have lost that battle but since we never get an answer, I dunno why we take that into account.
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When does it say she was a rival in any way that wasn't magical? Also, after learning her magic Odin was able to power null her and she needed help and Fimbulwinter to weaken most of the curses Odin put on her. If she was a rival to Odin how would Odin have put up any sort of fight against her, Atreus, and Kratos, yeah he was losing that fight, but he did pretty good considering two of the people there rivaled him.

We see in the comic that takes place before 2018 that his rage does greatly empower him, even Thor points out how much weaker he is when he isn't enraged, even getting disappointed. Rage is literally his primary power, didn't the Devs literally say is was the main reason he was able to win so much, since it helped him at all times?
 
Egarroyo0330 said:
His gear aren't game changers? Mimir and Brok point out that Fimbulwinter ruined most of his gear and magic, I doubt they would mention his armor if it didn't help at least a little bit, don't you guys use the effects that some of the armor provide, or was it only the ronds and Yggdrasil amulet? Because, if you use some of the armor effects too, some of them are very powerful, or do you just consider those one's gameplay?
Click to expand...
The effects don't really matter narrative-wise, since Kratos's punching power and the ability to adapt and evolve against shit comes largely from himself, not his weapons, armor, runes or enchantments. Like Planck said, only reason Kratos struggled so much was because he was holding back, which effectively stopped being a thing come Ragnarok.

Egarroyo0330 said:
I don't doubt that Post-Ragnarok Kratos is equal stat wise, if not superior, but there is no way his magic or weapons are, Brok considered the Blades to be special and they pale in comparison to the Blade of Olympus, Kratos's Runic magic also seems to be weaker for the most part then a majority of his old magic. Old Kratos is probably a better fighter and slightly stronger overall, but Young Kratos's gear and magic probably make the fight tilt in his favor,
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Okay? The weapons are still only as good as he amplifies them to be.

Egarroyo0330 said:
also could Old Kratos even put Young Kratos down for good without the Blade, because he and Zeus were able to stop it with their hands.
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't he be able to? He retains all the resistances back from Greece not including those from Hope, and he retains his strength level too.
 
Egarroyo0330 said:
When does it say she was a rival in any way that wasn't magical?
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Mimir makes no distinction to begin with so that's a non-argument.

Egarroyo0330 said:
Also, after learning her magic Odin was able to power null her and she needed help and Fimbulwinter to weaken most of the curses Odin put on her. If she was a rival to Odin how would Odin have put up any sort of fight
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You do realize that all of this happened because Odin learned all of Freya's secrets to be able to do so, right?

Egarroyo0330 said:
We see in the comic that takes place before 2018 that his rage does greatly empower him, even Thor points out how much weaker he is when he isn't enraged, even getting disappointed. Rage is literally his primary power, didn't the Devs literally say is was the main reason he was able to win so much, since it helped him at all times?
Click to expand...
His Rage has always been there from the very beginning because it's his true might, it's not something separate that he can just get rid of, it's literally his most valuable asset. So Kratos just masters it and doesn't need to go Spartan Rage as often as we literally see in the final fight where he's outright matching Thor for a while, and then straight up overwhelming him with each strike.
 
Egarroyo0330 said:
When does it say she was a rival in any way that wasn't magical? Also, after learning her magic Odin was able to power null her and she needed help and Fimbulwinter to weaken most of the curses Odin put on her. If she was a rival to Odin how would Odin have put up any sort of fight against her, Atreus, and Kratos, yeah he was losing that fight, but he did pretty good considering two of the people there rivaled him.

We see in the comic that takes place before 2018 that his rage does greatly empower him, even Thor points out how much weaker he is when he isn't enraged, even getting disappointed. Rage is literally his primary power, didn't the Devs literally say is was the main reason he was able to win so much, since it helped him at all times?
Click to expand...
I dunno why you bring up the power nullification when Odin specifically had to exploit her weaknesses to do so. The distinction you make doesn't even exist. Mimir just called her his deadliest enemy, period.

Freya's fights so far are; Kratos, Nidhogg, who was even overwhelming Kratos at times, and Odin. On top of the statement of being "equal to Kratos in every relevant metric, saying she isn't relative is asinine.

Odin put up a fight cause he's that versatile and has that much endurance, on top of having basically learnt all her magic over the years. Doing well against multiple foes isn't some major scaling feat as well.

Kratos holds back and that's something Thor acknowledges. Mimir tells Kratos not to lose himself in the same fight where he packs up Thor without wanting to kill him.
 
KLOL506 said:
The effects don't really matter narrative-wise, since Kratos's punching power and the ability to adapt and evolve against shit comes largely from himself, not his weapons, armor, runes or enchantments. Like Planck said, only reason Kratos struggled so much was because he was holding back, which effectively stopped being a thing come Ragnarok.


Okay? The weapons are still only as good as he amplifies them to be.


Why wouldn't he be able to? He retains all the resistances back from Greece not including those from Hope, and he retains his strength level too.
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So the poison and increase to damage when Kratos uses a talisman don't matter much then?

The Blade had more than just his own power in it though, and could absorb power from other creatures why wouldn't it be stronger than Old Kratos's arsenal? The Blade of Olympus is shown to be much stronger than anything Old Kratos has even used, hell Zeus beat all the Titans in one attack with it, which puts Thor to shame, and that Zeus was weaker than Kratos and the Zeus that fought him. I'm really confused on the magic thing now, I'm aware that Kratos can amplify them, but can he amplify them to the level that Young Kratos's magics were at? Because, the Runic magic seems a good deal weaker than a lot of Young Kratos's magic, amplified or not.

Because, Zeus had to resort to using Fear to finally kill Kratos, and Young Kratos was able to shrug off multiple attacks from even the Blade of Olympus, so it's just hard to imagine Old Kratos being able to fully kill him without either of those things, or Hope.
 
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