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God of War: Greek Pantheon Revisions

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LordGriffin1000 said:
Okay this is a lot and I'm going to go through this 1 thing at a time

1. Atles holding up the Cosmos.

Is this shown or just a statement.
Click to expand...
The feat itself of Atlas holding up something itself is well...shown in the games, obviously? We formerly assumed it to be just the planet, with the recent statements that have been discovered we're deciding on the scale of the cosmos.
 
Ok so what is the information/statments you guys are using to justify a universe scale for his feat
 
It comes from guidebook statements saying Atlas holds up "the heavens".

I personally disagree with the assessement that this means he is lifting the entire universe on top of the planet but I appear to be on the minority here, it's apparently super obvious to some people.

I mean, we can clearly see that what Atlas does is hold up the physical world above his shoulders, and not metaphysically anchor the universe from falling apart. Atlas holding up the heavens seems to me like just a misunderstanding, given the god's role in Mythology proper where he does hold up the skies.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Ok so what is the information/statments you guys are using to justify a universe scale for his feat
Click to expand...
Basically:

  • 1. The lore entry for Atlas on God of War II's official manual clarifies that he holds up the verse's heavens (with the word "heavens" on God of War being constantly used to denote the universe/cosmos whenever it is used)
  • 2. It is stated by Persephone in the game that, if the World Pillar were to be destroyed, "everything that came before" would end.
  • 3. It is stated by two official timelines that the World Pillar's destruction would result in all of creation ceasing to be.
  • 4. Persephone states that, once the Pillar was destroyed, the world would revert back into Chaos. In God of War cosmology, the word "Chaos" is used to refer to the primordial void that preceded the creation of the universe and was brought to order after the end of the Primordial War.
 
WindGodAcheron said:
Also, going to post a blog with the explanation for the God-Tiers' tiers, and will organize a blog showing what the main tiers will be upgraded to with the feats and scans.
Click to expand...
I would like to see it. As of now I'm neutral.
 
@Kep

Not sure on the "Heavens" part but if is shown multiple times that when they say "Heaven" they mean "Universe" it should be fine.

So is Atlas the World Pillar?.
 
> So is Atlas the World Pillar?.

No.

The World Pillar was the structure that did Atlas' job before he did. Basically, the plot of Chains of Olympus is this.

Persephone is pissed off with her fellow Gods, and thus she begins to orchestrate a plan to bring down Olympus. So she uses her powers as the Queen of the Underworld in order to free Atlas, and then Atlas goes into the Upper World, quickly defeats and kidnaps Helios, and escapes into the Underworld.

With Helios, who is pretty much an embodiment of light and the likes not to go too much in-depth, being gone, the world quickly falls into perpetual darkness and night, and the god Morpheus, who is the god of dreams, uses this opportunity to take over the world and put all the gods in a deep slumber, which puts all the Gods out of the way so Persephone's plan can work.

Atlas uses Helios' power of the sun in order to destroy the World Pillar, which is the structure that stabilizes and supports the entirety of the God of War world and cosmos and keeps it all together. With the Pillar destroyed, everything would be destroyed and thus Persephone would fulfill her plan to see the Gods crumble for what they did. However, Kratos interrupts this plan by killing Persephone, and her death generates an explosion that destroys the heavily damaged Pillar.

However, Kratos uses a weapon to chain Atlas to the top of the destroyed pillar, so Atlas now acts as the supporter of the world and the cosmos instead of the pillar.
 
@Matt

If Atlas is shown holding up the physical world then I'm going to half to disagree with it being the "Universe" he's holding.
 
That's the thing, though.

Atlas is never shown to be only holding up the world unless you nitpick the statements. That's why the several scans suggesting otherwise, from both the game and the guides, can work fine.
 
@Kep

"Helios is the embodiment of light"

Across the Universe or just the embodiment of the sun?.

"Atlas uses Helios' power of the sun to destroy the pillar".

This thing is suppose to be able to hold up the universe but the power of the sun destroyed it?.
 
> Across the Universe or just the embodiment of the sun?.

He embodies the Sun as viewed by mortals, however, his power doesn't come from the actual Sun.

> This thing is suppose to be able to hold up the universe but the power of the sun destroyed it?.

"The Power of the Sun" is a fancy nickname the characters give the power because it comes from the God of the Sun.

As far as actual power-source goes, Helios'Powers is stated in the game to be sourced from the Primordial Fire, which is a mystical fire that has existed since well before the Olympian Gods and Titans, and is likely primordial in nature.
 
Also, you'd be surprised at how powerful of a source the GoW Sun is, considering a weapon forged in the literal core of the Sun in the verse was stated to possess the power to literally hold up the cosmos themselves.

Not that it matters considering Helios doesn't literally have the power of the Sun, just mystical light and fire powers sourced from something far older and mysterious, so that can't be used as an argument.
 
@Kep

Ok. I'm still neutral on this whole thing but I don't wish to take up the thread with questions galore because I know people got stuff to do so I'll only ask about one other thing.

"Hyperion having a spear that could bear the weight of the universe".

Where was this stated?.
 
I think its worth mentioning that Cronos creating time is a little dubious, as is the infinite underworld

Reason being that the way I treat WoG (and I think this is how the wiki generally goes about it, or at least I think/hope so) is that if it is not verifiably wrong, then it is usable. I know there's some counter arguments to it, but the underworld has been described as having an edge in like, every game, or there is something that goes against it not being never-ending. Cronos creating time is solely a WoG thing (which isn't inherently bad or wrong but it kind of invents new stuff that was never really in the story) which is kind of weird when that would imply that matter has existed in a timeless void for a while. As well, the statement suggesting that time began when the Cycle did doesn't necessarily mean he created time itself. Its a possibility, but like I said, matter existing in a place without time would be the result of this which clearly is not true.

That being said theres some more feats that have not been mentioned that are on a similar level anyway so it doesn't affect my stance.
 
> Where was this stated?.

In God of War Ascension's multiplayer (it is stated in the official guidebook by the developers that the weapons, stories, armors and lore in the multipliers are fully cano to the lore of God of War), it is stated that the Spear of Hyperion, a spear forged by him, possesses the raw strength to bear the cosmos.
 
@Kep That seems fine then.

Someone should put all the feats and scans explaining then in a blog.
 
> the underworld has been described as having an edge in like, every game, or there is something that goes against it not being never-ending

The Underworld has never been described as having an edge - only the planet is, and the Underworld completely dwarfs the planet and stretches out beyond its borders in every game we can compare the two in.

I assume you're talking about the statement by Gaia on Chains of Olympus where she states Kratos fell next to the edge of Hades when he reaches the Underworld, correct? That statement is not saying the Underworld has an edge, as I have detailed in the past. The very next scene shows that Kratos is on the edge of Hades, which contains a waterfall of blood that leads directly to Tartarus, the infinite plane that directly surrounds and exists beneath Hades, the upper underworld, as seen in the next cutscene in the linked video. The term "Underworld" is used to collectively encompass everything within that area, including Tartarus (which are literally called the bowels/depths of the Underworld multiple times)

> Cronos creating time is solely a WoG thing (which isn't inherently bad or wrong but it kind of invents new stuff that was never really in the story)

Cronos creating time isn't just a WoG thing. Cronos has been implied to be some sort of time deity as far back as God of War II, and there is evidence on the new Norse games as well regarding him spawning time, as well as statements on the God of War 2 novel which suggest as much. The WoG pretty much confirms the implication.

> which is kind of weird when that would imply that matter has existed in a timeless void for a while

Time doesn't need to exist for space to exist. If you take this literally, even the existence of corporeal Gods who predate time would already imply that matter existed in a timeless void, since flesh is matter, so no need to overthink this particular aspect.

> As well, the statement suggesting that time began when the Cycle did doesn't necessarily mean he created time itself.

The cycle began with Cronos, killing Uranus. Therefore when the statement says that the Cycle began once the very construct of time began, is an implication that the existence of time is tied to Cronos in one way or another which is explicitly confirmed by WoG and implied by the novels, which state the Titans who are older than Cronos like Gaia are unbound by time, and there is explicit feats showing this, such as Gaia being omnipresent through time itself and knowing the events of the future and the past even when she is on her past form.
 
And, by the way, I remember some people using the fact that Cronos' death didn't lead to anything related to time or to time ceasing to exist as a counter-argument, so just in case this gets brought up.

Cronos was stripped off of his magical powers after he was defeated by Zeus.

When Kratos meets an astral projection of Cronos in God of War II, the Titan states:

And Atlas states, after he gives Kratos the ability to create earthquakes through Atlas' Quake:

Atlas gave Kratos the last of his magic, which he hid just like Cronos.

And, finally, to seal the deal directly, Zeus himself states all the Titans were completely depowered and stripped off their former powers when they were defeated.

"You are unable to fight him? A Titan who has been stripped of power and discredited for so long? You are no brother of mine if you can't chase him away back to the dark realm of Tartarus. Oceanus - he was the least of the Titans. Unlike Cronos."
 
Now one might try to say that would imply Prime Cronos is much stronger - but Kratos and those who scale to him, of course, steamroll and beat people who scale to Prime Cronos' level of power.
 
Hmm interesting.

So to summarize we're thinking High 3-A average Olympians (Ares, Helios etc) with Low 2-C top tiers (Atlas, Cronos, Hades, Poseidon and Hercules) with At least Low 2-C Zeus and Kratos?
 
Since Matthew doesn't have the energy to continue to argue about his, I suppose that the upgrades will go through.

I am personally conflicted regarding the issue. On the one hand, there do not seem to be feats anywhere near this scale within the actual games. On the other hand, it would make sense that the Greek and Nordic pantheons have comparable power.
 
I think that High 3-A based on Helios and the Underworld is incorrect, as is Low 2-C Cronos.

I don't think either MFTL+ or Infinite Speed is accurate either.
 
I myself am not too fond of Infinite Speed or High 3-A Helios but Low 2-C Cronos seems better for the above reasoning.

So you would suggest Rel to potentially FTL (Essence of Hyperion) for the Gods and such?
 
I can accept that. I think Infinite Speed based on "Helios lighting up the entire underworld" and likewise High 3-A is very unreasonable. The line which mentions that shouldn't be taken literally, or else the whole underworld would be uniformily covered in light.
 
Hellbeast1 said:
Hmm interesting.
So to summarize we're thinking High 3-A average Olympians (Ares, Helios etc) with Low 2-C top tiers (Atlas, Cronos, Hades, Poseidon and Hercules) with At least Low 2-C Zeus and Kratos?
Click to expand...
Helios and Ares aren't average Olympians. They're top 6 Olympians. Plus, I think Low 2-C could be listed as the low-end while 2-C is the high-end, since we have multiple statements regarding Kratos scaling and Kep told me on Discord something about Cory Barlog saying on an actual interview that Old Kratos is two thirds as powerful as Kratos at the end of GoW3

I am planning the following:

  • "At least 3-A (cue tier 3 feats), possibly Low 2-C to 2-C"
 
TheNekrozOfMokey said:
Clotho has seldom been talked about as a feat (not even argued against once in the thread above) and it should be incredibly fast
Click to expand...
Not just Clotho.

The novels literally mention the Sisters of Fate manage all the threads of life all at once, and that there are literally untold billions of threads because they control lifeforms, volcanoes, rivers, continents, islands and etc.

I remember making a low-end calc a while back, disregarding sub-lifeforms and assuming the threads are only one meter long, of that coming out in the 20 billion times FTL range.
 
And other lands apparently (they mention they govern the Nile but I don't know if this is the one the Egyptian Gods live or just their variation of it)
 
I see (damn and I was hoping we could see reference to that)

Also why do I get the sense someone's going to make Zeus fight Thor when this is done
 
And why shouldn't Gaia's narration be taken literally?

Gaia states

  • "For in the distance, the bright light of Helios illuminated a-aall of the Underworld."
While empashizing the "all". That's a feat of AP and Speed. And it's far from the only one considering the Valkyries also have an infinite speed feat in the Norse games and The Primordials fought each other on a timeless void. Plus, there are MFTL speed feats.
 
People do realize that if it was an uniform light you wouldn't be able to see the gameplay and would be blinded by it even if it weren't an infinite light? Helios' light is, lowballing, far more intense than the Sun and it is far closer than the Sun. Literally kilometers above Kratos. The Russia Meteor of 2013 was in atmospheric distances and it still blinded everyone who saw it with an intense light. Let's not nitpick the portrayal.
 
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