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God of War: Descension

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Theglassman12 said:
Yeah the snake just goes on and on and on until it reaches the tower. Class G was considered a decent lowball since that’s where “the largest man made structures” are calced around, and seeing the giant metal snake it’s not hard to see that being comparable to Class G
Click to expand...
Yeah, man. I think it would be better with an "At least likely far higher" rating. I couldn't even find any full size concept art of it
 
Just keeping it at class G is fine for me if we can’t get a big money shot of the snake. If you wanted to highball if you might argue it’s Class T since it circles around entire mountains with seemingly no end, but that’s a bit of a stretch, so where it’s at right now is fine.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Just keeping it at class G is fine for me if we can’t get a big money shot of the snake. If you wanted to highball if you might argue it’s Class T since it circles around entire mountains with seemingly no end, but that’s a bit of a stretch, so where it’s at right now is fine.
Click to expand...
Yeah, me too. But it Class T would make a little sense if you wank it, but G's fine. Not to mention Kratos does it pretty casually.
 
Hellbeast said:
That'd be Environmental Destruction and probably a chain reaction

You can see her ink ignites separately to create several explosions that destroy her temple. At most you could scale Kratos to one of those smaller explosions (even though I'd note we never see him tank them)

P̶l̶u̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶l̶u̶c̶k̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶9̶-̶A̶

EDIT: Rewatched the Chains of Olympus thing and I'm thinking this is a power the tree has; she specifically claims that the tree is what "releases the sins of your past" (this referring to Kratos power being drained). There's also visual stuff like
She does mention Kratos "foolishly disarming" himself but I think this is more referential of Kratos casting his weapons at the tree; letting the powers he gained be absorbed by it. So yeah this definitely doesn't work as Kratos energizing his own weapons (especially since the feat involves powers be taken from his baldes; not him willing them to greater strength)
Click to expand...
I agree with this assessment of the explosion feat. Can someone give me the arguments for storms scaling to physical strength, though? That's very much a non-standard thing now, we tend to include that as Environmental Destruction.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Just keeping it at class G is fine for me if we can’t get a big money shot of the snake. If you wanted to highball if you might argue it’s Class T since it circles around entire mountains with seemingly no end, but that’s a bit of a stretch, so where it’s at right now is fine.
Click to expand...
There is actually only one problem even for G, it might be probably 80% empty inside because you (or we whatever) said it was made like a snake prototype and in this video, I don't know if this is another snake robot but we see it's empty inside too, so I have doubts.
 
Yar_R_agi_7k said:
There is actually only one problem even for G, it might be probably 80% empty inside because you (or we whatever) said it was made like a snake prototype and in this video, I don't know if this is another snake robot but we see it's empty inside too, so I have doubts.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not sure this is the one Kratos rides, there are multiple of them, I could be wrong one this one tho
 
@Mr._Bambu the storm feat checks off the creation feats requirements, the fact that it’s physically there with numerous examples of it being physically made as opposed to it being an illusion, the fact that it’s done in a short timeframes, the fact that the same person uses it physically in combat to attack others, one of those people she and her sisters subdues is a giant Titan that dwarfs an entire mountain. So it scales to her physicals.
 
Yar_R_agi_7k said:
There is actually only one problem even for G, it might be probably 80% empty inside because you (or we whatever) said it was made like a snake prototype and in this video, I don't know if this is another snake robot but we see it's empty inside too, so I have doubts.
Click to expand...
The insides have a lot of inner structure inside of it. You have numerous times in that area where you walk inside of the snake structures and there’s floors and different elevations and other materials inside of it, so it’s not exactly hollow
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Mr._Bambu the storm feat checks off the creation feats requirements, the fact that it’s physically there with numerous examples of it being physically made as opposed to it being an illusion, the fact that it’s done in a short timeframes, the fact that the same person uses it physically in combat to attack others, one of those people she and her sisters subdues is a giant Titan that dwarfs an entire mountain. So it scales to her physicals.
Click to expand...
What do you mean physically there? Physical storms are allowed to scale, but generally it only scales to Environmental Destruction. I'm asking for proof that it isn't that, not that the storm is real or whatever. That said a mountain sized character sounds a lot more reliable of a feat to me, why are we not using that?
 
The character who made the storm has numerous showings of creating things through her illusions, like entire structures that Kratos in cutscene makes physical contact with, going off of the creation feats requirement, we need proof that the thing that was made is physically there and not fake, I brought up it being physically there and the other to prove that she does create these things and its consistent. If you want any clips of these, here they are.

The illusions she makes become real as you can get, hell you literally see a cutscene where one of the furies impale one of the soldiers and use it against kratos, the fact that Kratos physically makes contact with one of the walls that she makes that has no wall there prior, and the fact that she makes a giant water tornado that Kratos AND Alecto are physically swimming through.
Click to expand...

the character also has an illusion based bird that she uses in combat to physically harm her foes, and she can withstand blows from the people she's fought, meaning she can scale to her illusions especially since God of War has numerous showings of a Universal energy system when most of the character's strengths are utilizing magic, like some of the titans who's raw strength is done through magic.

As for the giant, I have no idea why we aren't using it as a baseline because they're using random 9-A clips that are done casually as an argument for the downgrade. It's ridiculous to ignore it especially when the Furies (the main antagonist of GoW Ascension who also has the 7-B storm feat), took down this giant and tortured it endlessly.
 
Another good feat is the fact that the cyclopes are strong to build mount Olympus itself. Not saying that's Mountain level, but that's definitely above small building level
 
Creation can still be ED though?

Like...

Ok. She has illusions. These illusions are physical. She can harm people with them. Ergo she scales to her storms.

I disagree with this because the same logic absolutely wouldn't go for someone making non-illusory things. If I create a weapon in the same game where I create a storm, I should not scale to the storm.

Absolutely use other feats.

As for the cyclops thing... is it? We built the Pyramids and the Great Wall of China, and we're Human level. Point to me the tier that's required to build something.
 
the point I'm making her is she uses her illusions to attack these foes, and she withstood blows from these characters numerous times. That's my argument. As for the creating a weapon example, God of War has examples of characters amping weapons with their strength. Kratos gets random weapons in ascension to use and he can channel his power into these weapons to make them stronger.

There is technically a cyclops tier the OP is arguing but the cyclops is a fodder enemy that kratos kills by the dozens in practically every game. Most if not all of these feats that they're proposing for kratos is done casually or done as a side effect of the fight.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
As for the cyclops thing... is it? We built the Pyramids and the Great Wall of China, and we're Human level. Point to me the tier that's required to build something
Click to expand...
The pyramids of Giza, the statue of liberty, the effel tower, the colossus of Rhodes, yes we built them. With our bare hands? Of course not. The cyclopes were specifically stated on two different scans to be strong enough to do this
 
Hellbeast said:
Ok so I was going to make this just about Ascension Kratos but then i realised this bullshit exists. Yeah so basically Persephone being the tier she is right now is dumb as hell. The reasoning is that she shattered the World Piller with her death explosion and this somehow extends to her regular power. This current reasoning leaves massive holes because of a few major issues
  1. If Persephone has the ability to just do this, why did she go on this huge scheme with Atlas? Why did she bother freeing Atlas to have him steal Helios’ power and then use him to shatter the Pillar That Holds The World? It’s just a massive amount of effort to expend when she can just do it herself
  2. Persephone is an absolutely irrelevant deity and we’re implying she’s = to the likes of an empowered Atlas
  3. We’re ignoring Atlas had several strikes in on the pillar before Persephone’s death, meaning it may well be somewhat weakened
  4. Persephone didn’t even destroy the whole pillar, there’s still a large portion Atlas is standing on
So not only does Persephone not perform a feat on her own that we think she did, our current rating for her basically ***** the scaling’s comprehensiveness. This needs to be amended immediately and this is fairly easy to do, just separate Persephone’s physical stats to her self destruction feat. It’s much more consistent with her being a relatively minor deity in the pantheon and with the fact we don’t see her perform top tier feats otherwise. Now this might just be a minor impact but there’s one thing that gets affected; the Gauntlet of Zeus.
So Chains of Olympus Kratos gets top tier scaling based on the Gauntlet killing Persephone which obviously gets nuked if we downgrade Persephone. The other stuff adding to its current ratings are as follows:
  • It chains Atlas
  • It was used to chain the other captive Titans
  • It killed Charon, who stomped Kratos
Going one by one will help address this. Firstly Atlas is impressive but unquantifiable since it’s Kratos punching chains hard enough for Atlas to not move (or at least we’ve treated it as unquantifiable). The other Titans are the same but the issue then is then added to because these Titans are kinda featless.

So what about Charon? Well he doesn’t help much either since, while he beats Kratos in a straight fight (one of the few to do this),
He's not overwhelmingly stronger than the Ghost of Sparta and wins the fight by getting out of reach and wearing Kratos down with his magical attacks (if the boss fight is to be believed). Kratos even draws blood from Charon and slices through him with his own scythe during the QTE!
Click to expand...

I'll address this.
This response is not just for Hellbeast but to everyone on thread.
______________________________________________
@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @Antvasima

Persephone Shenanigans.
  • If Persephone has the ability to just do this, why did she go on this huge scheme with Atlas? Why did she bother freeing Atlas to have him steal Helios’ power and then use him to shatter the Pillar That Holds The World? It’s just a massive amount of effort to expend when she can just do it herself
Click to expand...
First and foremost lets do away with inaccurate description of phenomenon. Its absolutely not a "Self-Destruction", neither is it prep-time based with accumulated power. As an analogy DBZ Vegeta who actually has self destruction doesn't scale it above separate and above his own physicals.
First and foremost its a death effect only, two I don't understand this logic of separating the AP of such a phenomenon from normal physicals, especially with how universal energy systems work. Many 2C gods go through it with varying effect, and with this twisted "muh not physical" logic most of those guys will lose ratings. Lets look at these guys:-
1)Hades:-This guy, one of the strongest guys among Gods doesn't even have a "explosion" to begin with, he just releases his dominion over all souls in Hades and Mortal World. If we apply this "super duper uber strong destruction compared to normal" logic.....where would we end up?
2)Zeus:-Look at this just some neighborhood lvl weather.
3)Hermes:- A Plague.
4)Hera:- Plants die.
5)Poseidon:-This is most interesting one, a tsunami over entire world wiping all mortals death. Can we really say this is strongest ""attack"" Posiedon can do?
6)Helios:- This also exists.
While the deaths are varied over each gods, they don't display full power, its just literal collateral damage of gods power releasing control over their respective domains of reality. Sometimes its hax, sometimes its explosion. Either way Its not limiting to characters power.
______
Lets go over another aspect of physical scaling. Can Persephone and characters similar to her in death explosion actually scale regular attacks in same range.
Lets see what type of fighter Persephone is.....

As you can clearly see, Persephone is literally a brawler type character, quite literally a DragonBall Character. Ki enhanced punches, kicks, tackles, dashes, grapples, Ki beams, explosions, projectiles, geysers, etc. The fact that Persephone can damage Kratos normally, when death explosions doesn't kill him, says volumes about them scaling similarly.
Its kinda disingenuous to say the death blast is something alien compared normal attacks, And this applies to every god who uses their own brand of magic for fighting. To call this environmental destruction is dishonest.

lets look at directly comparable Gods who use similar fighting styles to Persephone, and have absolutely similar death explosions.

7)Ares:- Ares main element is magic which he uses for same types of attack as Persephone. These attacks can damage Kratos, but if death explosions are supposed to massively above physicals why doesn't it kill Kratos who's standing at epicentre? Why is Ares' body still intact?
Simple really, while such cataclysms have great adverse effects on reality, They don't go above said god's power lvl at all.
8)Thanatos:- Same situation as above, Only in this case we have Death Energy/Aura . While Pissed Kratos is clearly very stronger than Thanatos, he is still comparable scale, and yet Kratos is unaffected by explosion in anyway. Thanatos explodes in whole body though, but that's Thera's bane explosion manipulation.
__________

tldr;
All in all, universal magic system, death explosions scaling below physicals or at least comparable in power or worst case a cut above physicals, but not preposterously above physicals, and definitely not Environmental Destruction.
____________

World Pillar Shenanigans.
  • We’re ignoring Atlas had several strikes in on the pillar before Persephone’s death, meaning it may well be somewhat weakened
  • Persephone didn’t even destroy the whole pillar, there’s still a large portion Atlas is standing on.
Click to expand...
While the Pillar is weakened, its durability is not unquantified. As long as it can hold up the world it is clearly 2C. Persephone destroyed a significant portion of the pillar. So her feat is not unquantifiable either. Also Pillar as an object is supposed to be strong material durability wise, so destroying such material also scales.
Also lets not forget we are talking about 2C(uncountable infinite) shenanigans, lets not pretend characters in fiction don't legitimately scale by just beating up weakened characters either(especially said weakened pillar is still performing 2C feat).
___________
tldr;
Weakened Pillar and Persephone are both legitimately 2C.
_______________

Persephone is a bombshell!!!

  • If Persephone has the ability to just do this, why did she go on this huge scheme with Atlas? Why did she bother freeing Atlas to have him steal Helios’ power and then use him to shatter the Pillar That Holds The World? It’s just a massive amount of effort to expend when she can just do it herself
  • Persephone is an absolutely irrelevant deity and we’re implying she’s = to the likes of an empowered Atlas
Click to expand...
Lets not pretend Chains of Olympus is the most impressive title in series for amount of feats it has for Greek Scaling. (Also best feels in story)
1) 2C feat by Morpheus, 2) 2C feat by Atlas/Pillar, 3) Casual High3A for Lighting up Underworld.
And Persephone is in thick of all this, perpetrator to all events and actually a fighter in the end, actually performing a feat of destroying the Pillar.

Sure you can call her minor, but using that as an excuse to downplay her to 9A is just dishonest, disingenuous. Her role is limited to Chains game, and while her scaling is a bit wonky in the game, its not an excuse to wash your hands off of her by downplaying her. Its a unfair disservice to the Character. Any scaling ""faults""(if they even exist in the first place) can be reconciled later. Most important is feats needs to be acknowledged.

Also "muh why didn't Persephone didn't do harakiri and end her life at Pillar and destroy it with her death" or "why didn't she bring it down herself" is the most dumbest argument.
lets not forget context of the story.
1)Persephone needed the world destroyed without interference. Hades would not have allowed her to attack the pillar.
thats why she employed sneakily Atlas to pull down Helios from sky, now Morpheus can safely merge with mortal world without Helios to drive him back.
So that they could convince Morpheus to consume the world, disabling all gods.
2) Atlas needed primordial fire to begin damaging world pillar.
3)Persephone is an arrogant and prideful Goddess but a doer and fighter regardless. Suicide doesn't suit her character.
She faught valiantly trying to go down as warrior, she dies and destroys the Weakened World Pillar anyways.
5)Also with how Atlas needed to amp himself to even damage the Full Power gives ample evidence that Persephone would't have been able to damage it at all, not even with suicide.
6)Her feat is only of destroying the Weakened 2C Pillar, she is not scaling beyond that.

Also this "Minor Goddess" Excuse doesn't work in slightest, at this point we are subjectively applying meaning of made up titles,
Do you actually have proof A) Is she even called that in the first place? B)Does being called minor gods actually have any dire consequences that they can just be downplayed like that? C) Does being called minor debunk feats?
I don't think any answer can satisfy this illogical stuff.
This "minor god" title doesn't work when we have couple of Demigods being 2C, "Minor Gods" like Magni and Modi are 2C and comparable to their Father Thor.
Also I can give another meaning to "Minor God":- Only Relatively Weaker to Elder Gods. Thats it.

Also scaling chain would be:-
Full World Pillar>>Amped Atlas>>Weak Atlas>>Kratos(GoZ)>=Persephone=Weak Pillar = 2C.
Lets not forget even Hyperion Spear on its own can sustain the cosmos weight, and Hyperion with Primordial Fire itself would be much powerful, Weak Atlas would powerful still, more with Primordial Fire amp, and his Prime Self would just be on another lvl entirely.

As you can see, Persephone still scales below even a weakened Atlas. But in same tier cuz feats.

Stop my disrespecting my gurl. :mad:
_______
tldr;
Persephone maybe minor god, but her importance and feats are impressive.
___________

So not only does Persephone not perform a feat on her own that we think she did
Click to expand...
She performs exactly as we rate her. Its clear as sunrise.
our current rating for her basically ***** the scaling’s comprehensiveness.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't, this a worthless excuse.
This needs to be amended immediately and this is fairly easy to do, just separate Persephone’s physical stats to her self destruction feat.
Click to expand...
1st its not self-destruction. 2nd As I already explained, It scales to physicals, any other attempt at "ED,Unquantifiable, et cetra" is going against standards.
It’s much more consistent with her being a relatively minor deity in the pantheon and with the fact we don’t see her perform top tier feats otherwise.
Click to expand...
Fake Consistency means jackshit against context, solid feats and scaling.
Now this might just be a minor impact but there’s one thing that gets affected; the Gauntlet of Zeus.
Click to expand...
i'll get into this shortly.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gauntlets Are OP

  • It chains Atlas
  • It was used to chain the other captive Titans
  • It killed Charon, who stomped Kratos
Going one by one will help address this. Firstly Atlas is impressive but unquantifiable since it’s Kratos punching chains hard enough for Atlas to not move (or at least we’ve treated it as unquantifiable). The other Titans are the same but the issue then is then added to because these Titans are kinda featless.
Click to expand...
Lets talk about speed and LS first.
This is Kratos reacting and Grabbing onto Persephone mid flight. Done with Blades, while Gauntlets are in dimensional Storage.
This a offgaurd mind haxxed Kratos reacting to infinite speed Atlas trying to grab him/ crush him/smash him. Also done with Blades as well as gauntlets.
Kratos also checks out on restraining Atlas. So Infinite/Immeasurable LS as well.
This is Kratos in a pushing beam struggle with Persephone, again showing LS and AP.

Titans are not featless, from cosmic fights against Primordials to titanic frontline battles against Gods. Both which last many hundreds to thousands of years.
you don't stalemate 2C beings for hundreds of years without being comparable yourself. The fact that gauntlets chained titans checks out on atleast LS and Speed.
gauntlets just being in storage on Kratos allows him to damage Persephone who is 2C herself. I don't see why we need any assumptions for this when we can clearly see this happening on screen.
Gauntlets checks out on all 3 fronts of AP, LS, Speed.
_____________
Tldr,
I propose both Persephone and Gauntlets become full 2C, Infinite Speed and LS. And Kratos while he has it in his storage.
___________________________
 
Last edited:
Persephone's page was never updated in the first place with the High 3-A Sub rel upgrades, so I agree with this, makes sense
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Creation can still be ED though?

Like...

Ok. She has illusions. These illusions are physical. She can harm people with them. Ergo she scales to her storms.

I disagree with this because the same logic absolutely wouldn't go for someone making non-illusory things. If I create a weapon in the same game where I create a storm, I should not scale to the storm.

Absolutely use other feats.

As for the cyclops thing... is it? We built the Pyramids and the Great Wall of China, and we're Human level. Point to me the tier that's required to build something.
Click to expand...
Gods in GoW affect the world with their mere raw power. Whether its Posiedon as a god of oceans and earth causing earthquakes and tsunamis, or Zeus causing worldwide storms, or Gaia shifting continental tectonic plates. All this is casual enough by just breathing hard, yes by just breathing. All of this scale cuz Universal System of Magic which they use to empower themselves. It absolutely scales to their physicals.
Such is the case with Furies too.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Lets talk about speed and LS first.
This is Kratos reacting and Grabbing onto Persephone mid flight. Done with Blades, while Gauntlets are in dimensional Storage.
This a offgaurd mind haxxed Kratos reacting to infinite speed Atlas trying to grab him/ crush him/smash him. Also done with Blades as well as gauntlets.
Kratos also checks out on restraining Atlas. So Infinite/Immeasurable LS as well.
This is Kratos in a pushing beam struggle with Persephone, again showing LS and AP.
Click to expand...
Kratos being infinite speed with the gauntlet is kinda iffy for me. I mean he heard Persephone call Atlas and he dodged. But then again he was mindhaxxed. And he did outmaneuver Atlas again by chaining him. I was wondering if the Blades of Chaos ignore durability earlier. They draw power from the primordial realm of chaos. They were hurting Charon who Kratos could only kill with GOZ. They were piercing Persephone, and they pierced Atlas. They strike the very life force of their enemies, so that could be the main way. I agree with Immeasurable lifting strength with the gauntlet.
 
BEASTHEART880 said:
The pyramids of Giza, the statue of liberty, the effel tower, the colossus of Rhodes, yes we built them. With our bare hands? Of course not. The cyclopes were specifically stated on two different scans to be strong enough to do this
Click to expand...
Can you show me the scans? Also, again, it absolutely does not qualify for AP to build something over time. This is not a point.
 
BEASTHEART880 said:
Kratos being infinite speed with the gauntlet is kinda iffy for me. I mean he heard Persephone call Atlas and he dodged. But then again he was mindhaxxed. And he did outmaneuver Atlas again by chaining him. I was wondering if the Blades of Chaos ignore durability earlier. They draw power from the primordial realm of chaos. They were hurting Charon who Kratos could only kill with GOZ. They were piercing Persephone, and they pierced Atlas. They strike the very life force of their enemies, so that could be the main way. I agree with Immeasurable lifting strength with the gauntlet.
Click to expand...
the fact that his movement is relative Atlas speaks volume on infinite speed.
Also your logic is flawed, if I tell you a finite speed character that infinite speed attack is gonna hit you, does that mean you could dodge it? Even if I give million years of prep time to you do you think you can dodge INFINITE speed attack. this logic wouldn't work against FTL vs MFTL let alone sub-rel vs infinite.
Persephone should be scaled in full in all 3 stats. AP,LS,Speed.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
the fact that his movement is relative Atlas speaks volume on infinite speed.
Also your logic is flawed, if I tell you a finite speed character that infinite speed attack is gonna hit you, does that mean you could dodge it? Even if I give million years of prep time to you do you think you can dodge INFINITE speed attack. this logic wouldn't work against FTL vs MFTL let alone sub-rel vs infinite.
Persephone should be scaled in full in all 3 stats. AP,LS,Speed.
Click to expand...
I guess you make sense. Whatever the largest finite number you can think of and you apply that to how many times you're faster than light, it wouldn't matter, because an Infinite speed character would literally perceive you as motionless, so yeah, there's literally not a chance in hell Kratos should have dodged that on his own. You're right there. The GOZ amping his Speed as well is his only logical explanation. You have my support on the Persephone thing.
 
79Ewd45h.jpg

9Kv2hsLh.jpg

Mr._Bambu said:
Can you show me the scans? Also, again, it absolutely does not qualify for AP to build something over time. This is not a point.
Click to expand...
I think @BEASTHEART880 refering to these?
 
Just put the image link into either the image option on bar....or use hyperlink on text.
Symbol of Chain is hyperlink and one Symbol of "sun and hills" beside it is image displayer.
 
Must be. But for some reason it's only doing this here, and nowhere else. This has been ******* me up greatly cuz I have some scans I feel would help out here. Like the Warriors of Zeus having Stronger magic than the Warriors of Poseidon.
 
If scans aren't working you can point out YT videos for this warrior magic stuff. I am pretty sure such statement would be found on multiplayer menu or tutorial or something.
 
You can search up God of war Ascension Multiplayer, All weapons, armor, abilities. A channel called prototype will appear. Then skip to 22:52 for this statement.
 
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