God of War: Descension

[Antvasima]

OP is mostly good, it’s seemingly just Glassman and Gilver who disagree

I’ll see if I can get some staff like Banbu and Kieran to take another look

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Theglassman12]

I said kratos’ physicals in that instance, not hers. He would scale to tanking the full frontal assault of her illusions.

it’s a scripted scene of Kratos using the weapon in a unique way, why the **** are you ignoring something that happens with these weapons just because gameplay? This sounds more like you’re cherry picking random points just to suit your argument.

I already explained it’s not a chain reaction, you just won’t bother debunking the point I made that her death immediately caused the explosion. Actually debunk my points supporting the stabilization feat beyond chain reaction and we might get somewhere, if you won’t bother doing this then I don’t see the need to continue this conversation as you clearly lack any debunks whatsoever.

Your only debunk on the tier 7 spear is gameplay showings of tier 9 or 8 stuff and saying the warriors regularly kill enemies on these levels, meaning you acknowledge it as rather easy for them to do, so that’s not a debunk. Several staff also haven’t bothered commenting once me and Gilver came into make any refutes so that argument doesn’t hold.

You did not do any of that shit, stop lying, you didn’t debunk any of the shit that was established as being a legit creation thing that the illusions have that would scale to power, all you said was ED and nothing else.

you don’t elaborate how the furies magic being a separate thing is legit when I’ve given scans for everything else. How about you explain how it’s fundamentally different from any of the other character

Perses had Kratos help him with Helios so he wouldn’t have been able to do anything to Helios to begin with so that doesn’t really help your point.

My 19 point long refute to your arguments in the previous section of this thread, you didn’t do any refutes there and just tried to refute the points I was giving to Bambu.

so you flat out admit it’s magic Cronos gave to Kratos, meaning magic scales to physicals so you admit it does exactly what we’ve been saying this thread.

You literally have a statement saying he channeled his godly might into the blade. So yeah it should count.

The scans literally says he gets stronger with that magic spell, you’re just cherry picking at this point.

did you bother reading what I was arguing there? Or do I have to spell it out for you? I was arguing the magic system as a whole exists in god of war, and I’m using those as proof that the games and novels prove they do exist. Why are you strawmanning my arguments? For the last time stop it or else I don’t see the need to continue this conversation as it’s just proof you can’t refute an argument I made and are just making up random points I didn’t even make in the first place.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

This is a chain reaction by the way.
One cause leading to an effect which causes next effect and so on.....a literal chain of events...happening one by one.


Alecto Castle collapse absolutely does not qualify as chain reaction.

Gauntlets of the Furies

The Gauntlets of the Furies are a pair of gauntlets. They are DLC weapons for the multiplayer of God of War: Ascension. The dark violet-blue gauntlets are molded to the form the wielders hands, protected by bronze material. The blue parts are according to it description, made of the scales of...

godofwar.fandom.com

Also look at the description of Alecto's magic on Gauntlets. Its literally described as magic, its not even ink to begin with. Its a literal energy construction, just like Green Lantern shit. Only in this case its black colored and limited to phlegms in versatility.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

This is a chain reaction by the way.
One cause leading to an effect which causes next effect and so on.....a literal chain of events...happening one by one.


Alecto Castle collapse absolutely does not qualify as chain reaction.

Gauntlets of the Furies

The Gauntlets of the Furies are a pair of gauntlets. They are DLC weapons for the multiplayer of God of War: Ascension. The dark violet-blue gauntlets are molded to the form the wielders hands, protected by bronze material. The blue parts are according to it description, made of the scales of...

godofwar.fandom.com

Also look at the description of Alecto's magic on Gauntlets. Its literally described as magic, its not even ink to begin with. Its a literal energy construction, just like Green Lantern shit. Only in this case its black colored and limited to phlegms in versatility.

Huh. This is interesting.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

I dunno. I'm starting to think they got enough evidence for a universal magic system, here.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

I'm starting to think magic in GOW works a little like Ki, or Chakra in Dragon Ball and Naruto. it makes sense, really.

 

[Planck69]

It does admittedly seem to point in that direction.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

It does admittedly seem to point in that direction.

Yeah. I mean, that cronos page alone was actually very detailed.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Yeah. I mean, that cronos page alone was actually very detailed.

I mean it's like they ****** used the loom of fate to travel to the future to answer this exact question.
"Even when he was not unleashing this power against enemies" Jesus, man

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

I mean if Kratos and crew end up staying 7-B (which I think they should at this point) I think all of this should be stated for it's reasoning in the profiles.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

I mean if Kratos and crew end up staying 7-B (which I think they should at this point) I think all of this should be stated for it's reasoning in the profiles.

yes it can be added as a note

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

yes it can be added as a note

Yeah. I came to agree with Hellbeast that the City level reasonings are a little wonky, but these past few scans change everything. And it clears up the smoke. After this is concluded this should be applied

 

[Theglassman12]

@BEASTHEART880 @Yar_R_agi_7k @Planck69 We do plan on making a CRT in the near future regarding the universal energy system, if that goes through we can make a blog to explain this all to clarify any confusion.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

After spending some time reading the thread, I have to say I'm very disappointed in Hellbeast.

Not only has he used inconsistent arguments, such as using explicitly gameplay only feats for 9-A while also saying that we can't use gameplay, he has also repeatedly dismissed Glassman and Gilver's points by just not acknowledging the arguments he can't disprove.

This entire thread has been, from my perspective, Hellbeast stonewalling while he waits for people to blindly FRA for his points without considering the opposing arguments, with him pushing for his perception of the scaling and blatantly ignoring any contradictions to his ideal version of the characters tier, regardless of the inconsistency in his arguments or the points others bring up. Refusing to use blatant on-screen feats, such as Kratos amping weaponry, because it doesn't have statements, while dismissing statements that are contradicted by gameplay. Do you see the issue here?

If you can't use gameplay, why are gameplay only feats being used to support Kratos being downgraded? Not to mention utterly ignoring lore statements because they conflict with gameplay, which Hellbeast himself seems to think can't be used. That is, unless it supports his opinion. Regardless of it he's abusing outlier arguments innacurately, or arguing the gods can't be scaled to each other despite that making no sense whatsoever.

Overall, this is a poor downgrade that has been stonewalled to hell and back by someone nitpicking, circularly arguing, and refusing to acknowledge points that he cannot disprove. If you can't use lore statements, use gameplay, if you can't use gameplay, use lore statements. It is better to use both, regardless. If you can't use either unless a single man states it's okay, are we actually scaling these characters accurately, or are we just obeying the opinion of one man and not the actual facts we can see and read?

I agree with Glassman and Gilver, by the way. In case there was any doubt as to where I stand.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

@BEASTHEART880 @Yar_R_agi_7k @Planck69 We do plan on making a CRT in the near future regarding the universal energy system, if that goes through we can make a blog to explain this all to clarify any confusion.

That would help. There's probably more evidence out there Keep In mind GOW Betrayal is canon, and maybe there's some good stuff in there.

There's also a digital graphic novel prequel to the multiplayer called rise of the warrior.

 

[Theglassman12]

@BEASTHEART880 you don’t have to quote yourself and add on to what you’re saying in another message, just edit your original post with whatever it is you wanted to add, it makes scrolling through the posts more unnecessarily long than needed

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

@BEASTHEART880 you don’t have to quote yourself and add on to what you’re saying in another message, just edit your original post with whatever it is you wanted to add, it makes scrolling through the posts more unnecessary than needed

Sorry lol

 

[Hellbeast]

After spending some time reading the thread, I have to say I'm very disappointed in Hellbeast.

Not only has he used inconsistent arguments, such as using explicitly gameplay only feats for 9-A while also saying that we can't use gameplay, he has also repeatedly dismissed Glassman and Gilver's points by just not acknowledging the arguments he can't disprove.

I'm sorry how have I used inconsistent arguments at all here? I've adressed the counters and I don't find them good and neither do other users

This entire thread has been, from my perspective, Hellbeast stonewalling while he waits for people to blindly FRA for his points without considering the opposing arguments, with him pushing for his perception of the scaling and blatantly ignoring any contradictions to his ideal version of the characters tier, regardless of the inconsistency in his arguments or the points others bring up. Refusing to use blatant on-screen feats, such as Kratos amping weaponry, because it doesn't have statements, while dismissing statements that are contradicted by gameplay. Do you see the issue here?

If you can't use gameplay, why are gameplay only feats being used to support Kratos being downgraded?

Because they're gameplay feats you need to progress? These are a far higher calibre then stuff you can just do mid combat and we've been using similar feats for Kratos' profile for a while.

Not to mention utterly ignoring lore statements because they conflict with gameplay, which Hellbeast himself seems to think can't be used.

What lore statements? The Spear of Poseidon which we've debunked since the OP?

That is, unless it supports his opinion. Regardless of it he's abusing outlier arguments innacurately, or arguing the gods can't be scaled to each other despite that making no sense whatsoever.

I'm really not unless you think 2-C Persephone actually makes sense

Overall, this is a poor downgrade that has been stonewalled to hell and back by someone nitpicking, circularly arguing

I'm sorry who's circularly scaling?

and refusing to acknowledge points that he cannot disprove. If you can't use lore statements, use gameplay, if you can't use gameplay, use lore statements. It is better to use both, regardless.

That's my point, the gameplay needs to be supported by lore that's the whole ass reason I was making an issue of the World Weapons dude.

If you can't use either unless a single man states it's okay, are we actually scaling these characters accurately, or are we just obeying the opinion of one man and not the actual facts we can see and read?

We're already doing that, we had Class G on the profile for years without any calcs

I mean if Kratos and crew end up staying 7-B (which I think they should at this point) I think all of this should be stated for it's reasoning in the profiles.

If we're using the Fury stuff as Universally Applicable they'd actually be 5-C because of the Moon in Sparta, you could put that as a Likely if anything

This is a chain reaction by the way.
One cause leading to an effect which causes next effect and so on.....a literal chain of events...happening one by one.


Alecto Castle collapse absolutely does not qualify as chain reaction.

That's not the context we use for Chain Reaction on the wiki dude, chain reaction feats are feats that are done via multiple consecutive explosions or attacks rather then one big one.
I know it means something different scientifically but, by the usage of the term on the Wiki, Alecto absolutely qualifies.

Unless you want to ignore she's creating smaller explosion that are ignited from her ink

Gauntlets of the Furies

The Gauntlets of the Furies are a pair of gauntlets. They are DLC weapons for the multiplayer of God of War: Ascension. The dark violet-blue gauntlets are molded to the form the wielders hands, protected by bronze material. The blue parts are according to it description, made of the scales of...

godofwar.fandom.com

Also look at the description of Alecto's magic on Gauntlets. Its literally described as magic, its not even ink to begin with. Its a literal energy construction, just like Green Lantern shit. Only in this case its black colored and limited to phlegms in versatility.

Ok but it takes the form of that inky substance and between that, shapeshifting and the Gauntlet that's all she does. That's Construct Creation, she never uses it in an AP context

I said kratos’ physicals in that instance, not hers. He would scale to tanking the full frontal assault of her illusions.

Via what evidence she's outputting 7-B energy with each of her attacks?
The Daimon is a construct but she is never seen constructing beings like it, the closest to that being the Spartans who are clearly not anywhere near the full level of her illusions and we see it's final death severely harms her (again compare that to the constructed Spartans). It's clearly not just an average construct for Tisiphone
https://youtu.be/LfNNl8uCVhc?t=265
The Daimon is the only times she's able to solidly harm Kratos and the closest to her amping anyone is conjuring a protective forcefield for Megaera during the Delos fight (scene isn't clear but you can see them together and after Megeara has a bubble around her). She never harms him while charging her attacks with Fury magic and she's treated as being fairly inferior to Kratos throughout the game.

it’s a scripted scene of Kratos using the weapon in a unique way, why the **** are you ignoring something that happens with these weapons just because gameplay? This sounds more like you’re cherry picking random points just to suit your argument.

I'm really not, I'm saying the cinematic QTE's would be more reliable to use because they are explicitly created as needs to progress rather then a custscene for, what is, a totally mundane weapon with no magical or godly potential. It's not even a scene, it's an animation

I'm concerned about using it partially because it's the main example I see for Ascension Kratos amping his basic weapons with magic

I already explained it’s not a chain reaction, you just won’t bother debunking the point I made that her death immediately caused the explosion. Actually debunk my points supporting the stabilization feat beyond chain reaction and we might get somewhere, if you won’t bother doing this then I don’t see the need to continue this conversation as you clearly lack any debunks whatsoever.

And you won't debunk mine that it is done through several smaller explosions, igniting her inklike constructs. Or that we never see her use her magic in an offensive capacity beyond shapeshifting and creating inklike substances to ensnare her victims

Your only debunk on the tier 7 spear is gameplay showings of tier 9 or 8 stuff and saying the warriors regularly kill enemies on these levels, meaning you acknowledge it as rather easy for them to do, so that’s not a debunk. Several staff also haven’t bothered commenting once me and Gilver came into make any refutes so that argument doesn’t hold.

No my debunk is we have no reason to say them having a 7-B power source means they're outputting 7-B energy with every single attack. I've never touched gameolay and have regularly iterated that the Warriors would not scale to Kratos, regardless of the above revisions. You've never really justified why the Spear would be 7-B with every individual attack

You did not do any of that shit, stop lying, you didn’t debunk any of the shit that was established as being a legit creation thing that the illusions have that would scale to power, all you said was ED and nothing else.

Because that's what it is dude, reality warping does not apply to traditional Attack Potency, it's explictly something one character does and we clearly see she's completely overwhelmed by Kratos physically throughout the game and she's only hurting him with constructs like the Daimon

you don’t elaborate how the furies magic being a separate thing is legit when I’ve given scans for everything else. How about you explain how it’s fundamentally different from any of the other character

Because everything about their magic seems like it's own thing, it's the main example of Reality Warping of any kind throughout the GOW series and we regularly see their illusions are feared for driving men mad.

They're also spawned directly from the Blood of Primordials so that might be something

Perses had Kratos help him with Helios so he wouldn’t have been able to do anything to Helios to begin with so that doesn’t really help your point.

Watch the fight, Perses takes several strikes in the background, survives one on the mountainside of Olympus and does severe damage with one strike to the Sun God. Even with help from Kratos that doesn't really add up.

If Helios scales to Hermes, who scales to Persephone there should be a lot less damage being done by Perses and that's ignoring the idea Persephone's death shatters the World Pillar while Atlas with Helios' power does nothing. So no the scaling makes no sense

My 19 point long refute to your arguments in the previous section of this thread, you didn’t do any refutes there and just tried to refute the points I was giving to Bambu.

Dude that was long as hell and I had no idea what you responded to half the time because you didn't quote

so you flat out admit it’s magic Cronos gave to Kratos, meaning magic scales to physicals so you admit it does exactly what we’ve been saying this thread.

You literally have a statement saying he channeled his godly might into the blade. So yeah it should count.

This is explicitly not an average occurrence, it's Zeus using his Life Force to create the Blade of Olympus, which is obvsiouly not the metric we should be ranking all weapons by.

It's an Olympian Godkiller, able to drain the energy from Gods and Titans by contact and expressly heals the user of damage while weakening the foe.

I'm fine with conceding this is an example

The scans literally says he gets stronger with that magic spell, you’re just cherry picking at this point.

I'm not, I'm pointing out this is the only reference and he's being given a likely far greater amount of magic then the Olympians are just passing out. Cronos' Rage has the solid case for it to be amping Kratos' stats but the statement for Atlas' Quake could easily be referring to the ability to summon lava and create devastating earthquakes being a great help for Kratos in combat.

did you bother reading what I was arguing there? Or do I have to spell it out for you? I was arguing the magic system as a whole exists in god of war, and I’m using those as proof that the games and novels prove they do exist. Why are you strawmanning my arguments? For the last time stop it or else I don’t see the need to continue this conversation as it’s just proof you can’t refute an argument I made and are just making up random points I didn’t even make in the first place.

Please watch your tone there. I did and I'd like to see how that was strawmanning, I'm pointing out the flaws in your system and your arguments.

If I have a bad tone, I apologize, I'm just sick of hearing the same combination of justifications we've already discussed for the last three pages or so or feats (like Aegean) that make no sense to use for characters of this tier.

 

[Hellbeast]

Also, i've re-notified some of the staff so hopefully we can get their takes on the new content

 

[Planck69]

Honestly, reading through the scans posted I see more for an energy system based on magic than otherwise. On that I'll have to say I agree with Glassman.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Infinite Speed base Kratos is absolutely whack scaling and I'm fairly certain that's obvious

Strawman, I have clearly differentiated this due to GoZ only, you may not agree with storage stuff, but don't act like I am talking about pure Base Kratos.

It's not LS tho; she's blocking the strike to shield herself in order to make it easier to push forward (before she gets sent back)

So by your logic if I stand before an oncoming train and BLOCK, I can easily push it backward?? Or If I lie down on a hydraulic press and block, I can prevent being crushed?
She pushes backward several times, before finally succumbing, Obviously since Kratos is stronger one here.

Also I'd note that Persephone has no LS feats outside of what we see in this fight so this isn't evidence for Infinite/Immeasurable base Kratos

This again...when I have I uttered base Kratos? You are putting words in my mouth now. Also I just wanted to prove Persephone and Kratos(even with GoZ in storage) scale in same tier of LS.

Cosmic fights against one confirmed Primordial (potentially more) without any real context provided.
We have no idea what the Titans (aside from Cronos) participated to the war effort at all

Every guy/gal who was on battlefield would scale, unless you believe any Entity of unknown Physicals can survive on battlefield against 2C/Infinite speed Gods.....for 100s of years of continous combat.
Same is for titans vs primordials, since cycle of war is repeated.

This would mean Kratos has Infinite Speed which makes no sense

Via Guantlets. Also he would compulsorily need infinite Speed to dodge and maneuvre around Atlas strikes and grapples. or else he dies. Its not just scaling, its narratively important.

No; we've already discussed this but there's no reason to assume him having the Gauntlet in some hammerspace is remotely evidence for Kratos being amped by it at all times. We never see the other weapons like the Blade of Artemis, Barbarian Hammer, Spear of Desntiny etc, being used to amplify Kratos without him directly pulling them out for traditional use.

We see it onscreen in scripted events. So its absolutely true.

Absolutely whack
This implies that a minor, absolutely irrelevant deity like Persephone scales to the same 2-C feat which Atlas (physically strongest of all Titans) does. Not just that but it breaks the narrative of Chains of Olympus, why does Persephone need to go through the effort of freeing Atlas, letting Morpheus incapacitate the Gods, sending the Titan to seize Helios' sun power, sending Atlas to destroy the pillar, wear down Kratos and then fight him, if she could just go "lmao no" and destroy the World Pillar with her Attack Potency outright?

Saying she needed the Gods distracted is all well and good, the problem is she kinda has every opportunity to get access to the Pillar (as her role as Queen of the Dead lets her get access to Elysium) and that's still not accounting for why she needed Atlas to shatter the Pillar with Helios. Surely killing him would work perfectly fine, clouding the world in shadows, allowing Morpheus to come in and shroud the Gods in sleep and then she can just one shot the Pillar with her Dragon Ball Z attacks

It makes no sense at all, you have to make so many explanations and leaps in logic to justify her contriving this whole plan and still being Multiversal. If anything, the simplest takeaway is she isn't able to destroy the Pillar by herself.

This entire section says that you did not even read my reasonings I so wrote down in 2 big paras. Everything you said here I already addressed. Just parroting the words back to me isn't going to work. Read the section again, Or else this """debunk""" is worthless.

I'm sorry why are we discussing Gods again? This whole thread is for characters from the Demigod stuff, we've been through this
Don't use ******* Poseidon to justify why his Champions drawing on a fraction of his strength work the same way.

You want to argue the Furies' and Demigods work that way? Cool, then use instances from them

Again a strawman. First the comment wasn't meant for you. two I used it only for Fury Storm, I dunno why you strawman me with Champion spear shenanigans. And don't act like you have given any evidence whatsoever to differentiate between different god magic mechanics, I can absolutely use them as evidence on how magic in fundamental works.

Also about the Gauntlet
As mentioned above, both Charon and Persephone can survive blows from it with both of them being injured by Kratos' weapons that aren't the Gauntlet

• Kratos draws blood from Charon with his Blades
• Cuts through him with Charon's own scythe
• In a gameplay section you need to use the Sun Shield to reflect Charon's blasts back at him
• Persephone is staggered by the Sun Shield deflecting her own attacks
• Persephone screams in pain and is clearly struggling to move through the Light of Dawn (being sent back a few times with a pained scream before being sent to her knees)

Kratos even does fairly well against Charon up until he uses the scripted big wave attack so it's not like he doesn't scale at all to the Ferryman. You could certainly blame gameplay shenanigans on that but what you can't do is ignore that Charon has to resort to getting the high ground, charge himself up and then overwhelm Kratos with a powerful wave of his Wrath. If we assume the Gauntlet is just flat Low Multiversal then we also have to assume the Blades of Chaos, Sun Shield and Light of Dawn all allow Kratos to hit you with 2-C power, which then means anyone who fights Kratos with these (such as the Furies, Poullux and Castor, Perseus, Theseus etc) would have at least a small measure of reasoning that they could scale to 2-C as well. This is obviously a problem and the solutions are either

1. Do it for the Lols
2. Only scale Charon and Persephone to 2-C
3. Use the Titans stuff as a likely far higher reasoning

The third is by far the best option imo, the first one is either outright wank or putting in place things that could be used to argue for that, the second is ignoring that Kratos doesn't actually need the Gauntlet to harm them, he does damage without it and we can see he shouldn't be God Tier yet since a mere shockwave from Atlas using Helios' power makes him lose his grip on Persephone. There's also the whole issue of why a later, more experienced Kratos, would remotely need to travel to the Desert of Lost Souls, subvert the traps of Pathos Verdes III to acquire Pandora's Box in order to kill a God at all if he already scales.

Another issue is Atlas seemingly still had his chains in place which Kratos punches into place using the Gauntlet of Zeus so it's up in the air how much the Gauntlet or the Chains are even contributing to this. And we know said shackles were forged by the God of Warlike Slaughter, Ares, from the multiplayer lore description for the "War Hammer of Olympus" which chained Atlas to the Underworld and Pandora's Temple to the back of Cronos, implying these are no simple chains. These are constructs forged by top tier Olympians to imprison a top tier Titan in the Underworld for several thousand years without issue.

The Gauntlet being a "likely far higher" weapon works better since pretty much every instance it's used has some kind of caveat, be it that Kratos isn't overwhelmingly weaker then two people he uses it on or the fact it's being aided by chains forged by the Top Tiers of the verse on both occasions it's used to imprison a Titan (which is likely the case for the others since we see they're chained as well)

Citations that kratos without GoZ actually being relative to Charon that does not rely on gameplay?? Hypocritical of you to use literally gameplay where Kratos is supposed to lose in a scripted battle as proof that they are relative?? Literally a contradiction. And yet you deny us simple feats of weapon amp where contradictions don't exist.

Also why are you equating Kratos even with GoZ to Amped Atlas, when I have abundantly made clear he scales below him in feats and scaling chain, and why of it also.

What has durability of Chains got to do anything with them being able to restrain titans to tartarus, you do realise titans can just unhinge themselves from their jails while lugging around the chains without resorting to breaking them? Or just unwrap themselves.

This is a gross misinterpretation of what happens, because Hades no longer rules, he can't hold back the tides of the wailing dead from rising out of the Underworld. It's a direct application of his stewardship over the dead and role as the God of the Underworld. It's nothing at all like Persephone's feat, that was a destructive blast of energy, not her share of the world responding negatively to her demise.

Hell Hades technically isn't even dead, his soul was claimed by Kratos so that might be why he doesn't even have a death explosion or any environmental effects other then the souls running amok.

Why are you repeating same points I said back to me?Also I never equivalanted them as same types of deaths, i argued opposite, You do realise entire point of this was me trying to prove that death shenanigans don't scale vastly above said characters. Still isn't as impressive as ripping Atlas soul.

Plagues are hax and he spawns insects, meaning this would just be Disease Manipulation and Insect Manipulation
I don't get this one tho, Hermes isn't associated with plagues normally (Apollo and Asclepius kinda are because their domains are healing and medicine) so this is weird.

Whatever it is, still not impressive as him delivering souls to hades or dreams to mortals.

This is a response to her salving influence being taken away by Kratos, before this she was doing "all she could" to preserve the flora of the Mediterranean (potentially implying Demeter's dead). Considering flora isn't normally an extension of Hera's dominions as a Godess and seems like something she is actively doing (to potentially great effort) it seems more likely her protecting the plants from the above ravages is what's happening here.

I'm uncomfortable using this as a feat of power either way, especially since it seemed to mostly be limited to Mount Olympus (since by God the Earth was flooding)

huh, nice trivia.

This is again Poseidon's death causing his domain, the Oceans, to negatively react, this isn't a big death explosion. I'd also note the seas seem to be moving over time since they haven't reached Olympia early on and then we can see them from the Summit of Olympos (rain from Helios' death could have done this)

Never called this an explosion to begin with.
As far as I know this guy could just cause tsunamis and earthquakes by breathing hard, while the scale is unknown, the fact that it is so casual.....shows that his death doesn't even scratch his full potential in catacylism.

Zeus is officially the God of the Skies and Thunder, it's a representation of his domain acting up, not a death explosion

Never said it was death explosion. But care to explain why it doesn't look so impressive compared to his usual showings of storm manip, since by your logic death shenanigans should be most impressive feat for characters way above normal showings. So why is the storm so small than usual?

I'm trying to figure out if the clouds are him or Morpheus
I'm going to assume it's him tho and I know clouds scaling physically is a bit of a no no rn and it's kinda pointless to bring up since, like all Olympians, this isn't the main reason for his tiering.

no sleep effect, no creepy blue mist, no mist monsters, no narration of his approach.....pretty safe to say it isn't Morpheus. Regardless pretty peanuts feat compared to his usual showings.

Kratos wouldn't be tanking the full strength of her explosion because of Inverse Square Law and her energy blast is massively above any other feat she does.

implying that inverse square law applies in infinite AP tiers. smfh, division of infinite by squares of distance is still infinite.
I proved precedence of deaths not being ultimate expressions of power for gods. now onus is on you to provide proof to contrary.
Also disclaimer. All I wanted to prove that feats aren't impressive to normal, not that they can't be 2C for main gods.So hope you don't misinterpret/misrepresent me there.

Kratos would not be tanking the whole thing and distance would impact the amount taken via Inverse Square Law.
Again it's a minor 6-C feat for a Likely 2-C entity, it's not and has never been the solely defining feat he's had under his belt. Ares is also one of the four mightiest Gods on Olympus so I'm willing to bet he's a different case from Persephone

Classic AoE fallacy. same inverse bullshit. It has 2C AP...end of the story. You can bet all you want, but i require citations about her being fundamentally different than Ares. Untill then they are similar in many aspects of fighting.

I'm not arguing she would have committed game end, I;m saying if she's such a doer and her death explosion scales to general Attack potency rather then some esoteric ability, why does she not simply destroy the Pillar herself? She already used Atlas to get Helios out the way and letting Morpheus consume the world in black fog, but then why use the Power when you scale above him?

Kill Helios and you've accomplished the same purpose of getting him out the way and if anything it'd be better because that way he can't just restore the sun if you fail. There is no reason for the 2-C Persephone to just use a power source (of someone who I'd note scaling implies would be weaker then her) if she can just do it herself. Have Atlas slay the Gods or Kratos or something and be done with it.

Already explained this. You seem not to have read. Anyway tldr; Prime Pillar is waayy above her league, I doubt she can scratch it when a amped Atlas needed multiple strikes to weaken it. She scales to weakened Pillar , thats it. She doesn't even scale to Weak Atlas, let alone Amped Atlas, Let alone Prime Atlas. All her efforts on her own will be wasted, that is if she is even allowed by Hades.

She's never referenced outside of this game more then a few times (Hades mentions her in III and Athena references her omnicidal plot in the Novelization for GOWII.

She's clearly not a Godess who's particularly revered by the Greeks and her being so handed away to Hades (something she implies based on her lines about the Gods betraying her) implies she isn't held in high esteem by her kin either. Zeus would likely not have done anything of the sort with Athena and we see the only one who takes issue with this is her mother, the Goddess Demeter

Whats her social status got to do with anything?? Do you actually have proof that such a thing can even begin to have any bearing on her power? So much so that we must downplay her to absolute? Thats gonna require enormous proof on your end.

Your waifu is trash

She ain't my waifu, and calling her trash ain't a debunk either. Actually address this or concede.

We rate her by a singular feat that completely disregards the wider narrative context and her place as an insignificant deity among the Greeks

Citation needed, please give scans of her being ""minor goddess"", please provide scans that being minor warrants absolute lowball against objective facts.
Wiki isn't compulsed to accept your headcanon subjective explanations. Even I can make those, even then I would atleast have some backing in form of proof.

It's not, if a character has a feat that's way above their other feats from a specific attack or attacks, then the policy is to treat that attack as being separate, this is why storms aren't taken as just being flat City Level AP anymore or why the Incredibles are getting downgraded and this is why environmental destruction is becoming such an enforced concept.

That doesn't apply when the character in question relies on energy system to amp her in various ways.

What solid consistency and scaling? Persephone being above the entire Titanic race? With how we're scaling Hermes to her that means even he could have soloed the entire invasion force in GOWIII which is insane and that's nothing to say of the wider implication that holds. Everyone, including the Sisters of Fate, terrify Hermes and generally view him as absolutely insignificant so that means any notable Olympian would have soloed the entire Titan army in GOWIII. Which obviously isn't the case, we see Hades and Poseidon wreck house but then Perses just eats everything Helios puts out and grievously wounds him when he actually gets his hands on him.

I've also pointed out how Persephone is harmed by other weapons so that would not just be scaling for characters like Helios (whom the Light of Dawn is derived from) but also anyone who survives those attacks. This could potentially double the list of who has a claim to be 2-C which kind of makes an absolute mess of everything. So either we disregard those as outliers, assume the Gauntlet amps Kratos even when not being worn (which is a weird assumption) or that the Gauntlet shouldn't be outright Low Multiversal.

I'd also note something I just recalled. You know how Atlas is chained half way through the fight? He's chained to the Underworld's ceiling and is forced to support it. You can see him holding it throughout the fight and he's described as being consigned to that by Kratos. So it's Atlas holding the earth from halfway onwards, not necessarily the Pillar.

It's not a huge "gotcha" or a "hail Mary" but it's something I think we should be noting.

Stop strawmanning me and actually address my points, I have clearly explained Persephone doesn't even scratch the Top tiers of Titans or Gods.
Helios is weaker of the Gods, him having trouble with Perses means jackshit, in fact it looks like he was just harrassing and toying with him, untill Kratos slapped his chariot.

Outlier

An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. Outliers are often regarded as unusable in forums debates. However, efforts should be made to try to reconcile...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also might wanna actually read the outlier page, Such terms should not be thrown around callously without reconciling. i have done so, you have ignored and strawmanned. Relied on subjective opinions to fit your needs. Provide scans or concede.

I'd also note something I just recalled. You know how Atlas is chained half way through the fight? He's chained to the Underworld's ceiling and is forced to support it. You can see him holding it throughout the fight and he's described as being consigned to that by Kratos. So it's Atlas holding the earth from halfway onwards, not necessarily the Pillar.

It's not a huge "gotcha" or a "hail Mary" but it's something I think we should be noting.

Weak Pillar still holding up world before Atlas was chained, not to mention he is only contributing there to world pillar, he isn't even using two hands, whivh means he wasn't yet completely forced to bear its weight, at absolute worst you can say he is doing half work, Breaking news.....half of infinite is still infinite!!!!
Also material durability of pillar is a thing, which she completely destroyed by her blast. Her feat is absolutely quantifiable.
Blatant 2C.
_____________________________________________________________

Explosion Bugaloo.

Lets talk about these points again.

Kratos wouldn't be tanking the full strength of her explosion because of Inverse Square Law and her energy blast is massively above any other feat she does.

Kratos would not be tanking the whole thing and distance would impact the amount taken via Inverse Square Law.
Again it's a minor 6-C feat for a Likely 2-C entity, it's not and has never been the solely defining feat he's had under his belt. Ares is also one of the four mightiest Gods on Olympus so I'm willing to bet he's a different case from Persephone

ignoring the obvious irrelevency of inverse square law and AoE fallacy. I will steelman your points.
lets say you are true, Persephone is far weaker than her blast.
please explain why her body is still intact after explosion.

Why the hell is Ares body still intact after death??


Explosion scaling above physicals is absolutely impossible in this case.
First time seeing bomb surviving its own explosion. Explain this inconsistency.
1) You haven't provided any fundamental difference between Ares and Persephone.
2) I don't need to even use this dead body arguement, even if I steelman your arguements, At worst I will get Persephone a cut weaker then her explosion , and guess what, fraction of infinite is still infinite. And guess what the fact that kratos survived the explosions in both cases while being comparable to Ares and persephone destroys your standing completely.

And i can already predict you response to this dead body stuff......but I guess I ain't worried

 

[Planck69]

Whats her social status got to do with anything?? Do you actually have proof that such a thing can even begin to have any bearing on her power? So much so that we must downplay her to absolute? Thats gonna require enormous proof on your end.

I actually have to agree. Her position in the pantheon shouldn't be any indicator of power.

She ain't my waifu, and calling her trash ain't a debunk either. Actually address this or concede.

I'm pretty sure he was just poking fun. I doubt he meant anything by it.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I actually have to agree. Her position in the pantheon shouldn't be any indicator of power.

I'm pretty sure he was just poking fun. I doubt he meant anything by it.

Yeah, I overreacted. Sorry. I'll edit it shortly.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I spoke to Glass at length over Discord. My conclusions based on that conversation:

- A lot of the evidence does still leave a lot to be desired. Most of what was offered was absolutely implicit but far from as concrete as he would have me believe, I think. The universal magic system in particular failed to be shown without a shadow of a doubt- I can see why one would come to that conclusion, I just don't think it is the absolute.

- Gameplay should not be used to disregard feats. On that I do agree with Glass- not that it was necessarily what I intended to speak on.

- The storm feats remain questionable to me. The explosion feat is a chain reaction- on this point I agree with Hellbeast. I am also told the supporting feat I was told about from Glass is not scaled to the current 7-Bs but rather to Zeus and the proper gods, which I was not told by Glass himself. For more specific reasoning, the illusory storm relies entirely on the acceptance of this universal magic system to be used, and the weapon with the strength of a storm or what have you is... doubtful, to say the least. I think Hellbeast's takes are safer in this regard.

I'm torn in terms of which side has my full support. I'm not certain I agree 100% with either.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I'll be putting together a blog for this universal energy system, hopefully Ascension 7B feats would be more readily acceptable in that case. Will need atleast a day for this.

 

[Hellbeast]

Spoiler: Response to Gilver the ProtoAngelo

Strawman, I have clearly differentiated this due to GoZ only, you may not agree with storage stuff, but don't act like I am talking about pure Base Kratos.

Spoiler: Response to Gilver the ProtoAngelo

The thing is there's no reason to assume the Gauntlet's amplification applies to Kratos' other stats, nor that this happens even when it's not actively in use

So by your logic if I stand before an oncoming train and BLOCK, I can easily push it backward?? Or If I lie down on a hydraulic press and block, I can prevent being crushed?

If you had building level durability or used a runnining start you probably could push it back.
Thing is this isn't pushing an oncoming train, this is blocking an energy blast and ignoring the pain to try and push forward, it's just as much a hest and energy as it is raw force. Kratos' strength isn't actually what's being tested here (even if Persephone is using LS), he's using the Light of Dawn's energy attacks to push the Goddess back. and we can see her being pushed back correlates to pulses of energy from the Light It's really more durability then anything else and she's finally brought to her knees, screaming in pain.

This again...when I have I uttered base Kratos? You are putting words in my mouth now. Also I just wanted to prove Persephone and Kratos(even with GoZ in storage) scale in same tier of LS.

In fairness you didn't but this isn't me strawmanning you. I'm pointing out you have no evidence for the Gauntlet being able to enhance Kratos' stats when it's in his hammerspace, no other weapon works this way so, unless you adequately prove this to be the case it would have to be base Kratos.

Please I'm genuinely unsure if I'm missing lore that says the Gauntlet works this way

Every guy/gal who was on battlefield would scale, unless you believe any Entity of unknown Physicals can survive on battlefield against 2C/Infinite speed Gods.....for 100s of years of continous combat.

The thing is this is assuming every Titan is fighting the same way, we have no idea what their roles in the war effort actually was

Via Guantlets. Also he would compulsorily need infinite Speed to dodge and maneuvre around Atlas strikes and grapples. or else he dies. Its not just scaling, its narratively important.

The narrative importance of the Gauntlet is in terms of it's sheer power, it helps him beat Charon and is the weapon to deal the final blow against Persephone. It's never general amps or speed that is referenced as the Gauntlet's edge and again, no evidence for it's amp to apply to everything. Hell Kratos describes this as luck just as much as anything else in the Novelization for II

We see it onscreen in scripted events. So its absolutely true.

No we don't; we see Kratos kill Persephone with it and we see him sidestep and attack, we never get confirmation it's the Gauntlet amping his speed to Infinite levels

This entire section says that you did not even read my reasonings I so wrote down in 2 big paras. Everything you said here I already addressed. Just parroting the words back to me isn't going to work. Read the section again, Or else this """debunk""" is worthless.

You gave one possible, headcanon explanation why she would not use her 2-C power to damage the 2-C construct. You didn't adress how it overly complicates her plan or my point that, since the Gods are out of the way, nothing is stopping here from just doing it herself and not having to use Helios

Again a strawman. First the comment wasn't meant for you. two I used it only for Fury Storm, I dunno why you strawman me with Champion spear shenanigans.

I wasn't; I brought up the Spear since it's one of the reasonings for 7-B along with the Fury storm. I admit I might have gotten mixed up those, so I duly apologize.

And don't act like you have given any evidence whatsoever to differentiate between different god magic mechanics, I can absolutely use them as evidence on how magic in fundamental works.

Citations that kratos without GoZ actually being relative to Charon that does not rely on gameplay?? Hypocritical of you to use literally gameplay where Kratos is supposed to lose in a scripted battle as proof that they are relative?? Literally a contradiction. And yet you deny us simple feats of weapon amp where contradictions don't exist.

Except that's not my only evidence, I also used scripted QTE's (which are basically cinematics) to point out that, yes, Kratos can harm Charon and Persephone without resorting to the Gauntlet of Zeus

Also why are you equating Kratos even with GoZ to Amped Atlas, when I have abundantly made clear he scales below him in feats and scaling chain, and why of it also.

What has durability of Chains got to do anything with them being able to restrain titans to tartarus, you do realise titans can just unhinge themselves from their jails while lugging around the chains without resorting to breaking them? Or just unwrap themselves.

Because the chains are what is actively holding Atlas, been specifically designed by Gods to hold him and are what Kratos partially uses to keep Atlas in place

Why are you repeating same points I said back to me?Also I never equivalanted them as same types of deaths, i argued opposite, You do realise entire point of this was me trying to prove that death shenanigans don't scale vastly above said characters.

My point is half of these aren't actually feats of direct power, using that to justify the Death Explosion of Persephone as a direct feat of her normally, universally applicable power is dodgy because of this.

Whatever it is, still not impressive as him delivering souls to hades or dreams to mortals.

Yeah but that's mostly speed and hax (really neat tho)

huh, nice trivia.

Thank you! I'd say they could have composited Hera and Demeter but the novelizations and Chains of Olympus both reference her existence up until II (I'm going to assume she was killed by the Titans)

Never called this an explosion to begin with.

Not saying you did, I'm pointing out the fallout from a God's death varies between the deities, with some leaning to massive explosions and others being facets of the world itself reacting negatively (sometimes over a period, sometimes immediately)

As far as I know this guy could just cause tsunamis and earthquakes by breathing hard, while the scale is unknown, the fact that it is so casual.....shows that his death doesn't even scratch his full potential in catacylism.

Never said it was death explosion. But care to explain why it doesn't look so impressive compared to his usual showings of storm manip, since by your logic death shenanigans should be most impressive feat for characters way above normal showings. So why is the storm so small than usual?

No I'm saying they mostly aren't, which is why I'm so puzzled Persephone's best feat is her death

no sleep effect, no creepy blue mist, no mist monsters, no narration of his approach.....pretty safe to say it isn't Morpheus.

Yeah that's mostly why I'm thinking it's outright Helios (I am curious what Morpheus was doing during this tho)

Regardless pretty peanuts feat compared to his usual showings.

Part of my point, most of the Death feats that are AP are pretty much peanuts compared to what they normally have under their belt. Persephone is the main outlier in terms of this, her death explosion is miles above anything else she would scale to (Kratos fighting her). You mentioned before all the other stuff is casual for Gods, and I'm with that

implying that inverse square law applies in infinite AP tiers. smfh, division of infinite by squares of distance is still infinite.
I proved precedence of deaths not being ultimate expressions of power for gods. now onus is on you to provide proof to contrary.
Also disclaimer. All I wanted to prove that feats aren't impressive to normal, not that they can't be 2C for main gods.So hope you don't misinterpret/misrepresent me there.

I'm not, don't worry

Classic AoE fallacy. same inverse bullshit. It has 2C AP...end of the story. You can bet all you want, but i require citations about her being fundamentally different than Ares. Untill then they are similar in many aspects of fighting.

Already explained this. You seem not to have read. Anyway tldr; Prime Pillar is waayy above her league, I doubt she can scratch it when a amped Atlas needed multiple strikes to weaken it. She scales to weakened Pillar , thats it. She doesn't even scale to Weak Atlas, let alone Amped Atlas, Let alone Prime Atlas.

While I agree we need keys separating Atlas' states in the Great War and afterwards, that's not currently accepted and this isn't the place to accept that when we're talking about characters who aren't top tiers.

All her efforts on her own will be wasted, that is if she is even allowed by Hades.

Whats her social status got to do with anything?? Do you actually have proof that such a thing can even begin to have any bearing on her power? So much so that we must downplay her to absolute? Thats gonna require enormous proof on your end.

Honestly I recall quite a few instances implying that status has some rough correlation to raw power.. Obviously Zeus is the king, his power is regualarly stated as absolute among them and we see even his brothers fear his potential wrath when the chips come down to it. After that we see Poseidon and Hades are considered the next powerful, having drawn lots for the sea and Underworld and Athena claims they're the most powerful along with Zeus. in the first novel and the Multiplayer calling them the mightiest Gods on Olympus.

Ares is next stated quite a few times to be incredibly powerful and we see his reverance is immense, to the point he's outright held in a similar general standard as Zeus and his brothers in the Multiplayer opening and is a major force in the Wagers the Gods have (alongside Helios, who has a massive statue in Rhodes in his honour and is basically referenced as being the life sustaining force of the Sun). The only one who doesn't have this is Hermes, but I'd mostly chalk this up to him being the Messenger of Olympus and he's not really held in high regard by Hades and the others.

She ain't my waifu, and calling her trash ain't a debunk either. Actually address this or concede.

Yeah that's just a joke about you calling her "my girl", nothing serious

Citation needed, please give scans of her being ""minor goddess"", please provide scans that being minor warrants absolute lowball against objective facts.
Wiki isn't compulsed to accept your headcanon subjective explanations. Even I can make those, even then I would atleast have some backing in form of proof.

I'm mostly pointing out the wiki's current scaling her beneath Hermes but I admit the lack of references to her is fairly interesting to me considering the known arrogance of Gods and the fact the strongest are consistently revered by the mortals below.

That doesn't apply when the character in question relies on energy system to amp her in various ways.

She doesn't really though, her energy Manipulation is mostly limited to firing bolts and protracted beams. There is a similar emerald light on her hands when she tries to sway Kratos but that's Mind Hax not her amping her stats.

Stop strawmanning me and actually address my points, I have clearly explained Persephone doesn't even scratch the Top tiers of Titans or Gods.

But assuming the Death Explosion is just an extension of her base power would tho. She shatters a construct the strongest Titan needed an external amp for with significantly less effort then Atlas was exerting. The very feat would imply she is >>> which kinda wrecks the scale.

You've even reinforced the Pillar would still be 2-C, meaning she's still solidly within the upper echelon

Helios is weaker of the Gods, him having trouble with Perses means jackshit, in fact it looks like he was just harrassing and toying with him, untill Kratos slapped his chariot.

Again, since we accept Hermes as being > Persephone, Helios would surely scale to that 2-C feat by this current scaling.
Either this makes no sense or our current scaling doesn't work and Hermes needs a massive downgrade (I'm fine with the latter ngl)

Outlier

An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. Outliers are often regarded as unusable in forums debates. However, efforts should be made to try to reconcile...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also might wanna actually read the outlier page, Such terms should not be thrown around callously without reconciling. i have done so, you have ignored and strawmanned. Relied on subjective opinions to fit your needs. Provide scans or concede.

Weak Pillar still holding up world before Atlas was chained

I'm aware, I'm pointing out he's holding the Earth as well for half the fight, not a gotcha at all, just something neat.

not to mention he is only contributing there to world pillar, he isn't even using two hands, whivh means he wasn't yet completely forced to bear its weight, at absolute worst you can say he is doing half work, Breaking news.....half of infinite is still infinite!!!!

Atlas is stated in the Novelization for II to be able to hold the earth with even one hand to my knowledge (I'll check?) and we see ven minor motion is restricted by the chains.

Also material durability of pillar is a thing, which she completely destroyed by her blast. Her feat is absolutely quantifiable.
Blatant 2C

Again, fine with the blast being 2-C, just that we shouldn't assume it's representative of her wider power level.

lets say you are true, Persephone is far weaker than her blast.
please explain why the hell her body is still intact after explosion.

Because she isn't tanking the full force at all here. There is surface Area and Inverse Law. Even ignoring that, I'd point out Kratos (who would only be 7-B at most) also survives being near the explosion so I'm unsure whether or not this could be reliably scaled in the way you imply. The blast is clearly 2-C but we see a character miles below this tank it (obviously outlier right?) so I don't know why we should use the same for Persephone;s corpse to imply it's her scaling to it's force.

Please explain to me how Kratos is harming her with other stuff without making the Light of Dawn 2-C if it's just an extension of her power. I'm fine with accepting her as being > Kratos physically but not to the point of being several dozen tiers above.

First time seeing bomb surviving its own explosion. Explain this inconsistency.

Yeah I admit I got nothing for Ares. Retcon I guess?
Again I'm not arguing Ares would scale below his death explosion, just that Persephone would.

1) You haven't provided any fundamental difference between Ares and Persephone.

The fact Ares is far stronger then Persephone?

2) I don't need to even use this dead body arguement, even if I steelman your arguements, At worst I will get Persephone a cut weaker then her explosion , and guess what, fraction of infinite is still infinite. And guess what the fact that kratos survived the explosions in both cases while being comparable to Ares and persephone destroys your standing completely.

Kratos surviving the Persephone explosion is pretty clearly an outlier tho. Of course unless we're accepting the Gauntlet as amping all of him to godlike levels (which makes it weird no one suggests that when he has to kill Ares) and is still mostly just treated as "the obvious case" rather then providing citations for this.

I'll be putting together a blog for this universal energy system, hopefully Ascension 7B feats would be more readily acceptable in that case. Will need atleast a day for this.

Honestly this would really help so we can see everything for it and go through it.

Spoiler: Bambu Response

- A lot of the evidence does still leave a lot to be desired. Most of what was offered was absolutely implicit but far from as concrete as he would have me believe, I think. The universal magic system in particular failed to be shown without a shadow of a doubt- I can see why one would come to that conclusion, I just don't think it is the absolute.

Spoiler: Bambu Response

Yeah, I certainly think there's reasoning for it that makes sense, I just don't think it's entirely concrete.

- Gameplay should not be used to disregard feats. On that I do agree with Glass- not that it was necessarily what I intended to speak on.

I was less using that for outright AP feats, Glass brought that up when taking issue with the calcs versus using the other stuff. My point was more connected to the World Weapons (Which I'm fine to concede)

- The storm feats remain questionable to me. The explosion feat is a chain reaction- on this point I agree with Hellbeast. I am also told the supporting feat I was told about from Glass is not scaled to the current 7-Bs but rather to Zeus and the proper gods, which I was not told by Glass himself.

To add context this is the Hecatonchires, the multi-armed giant that is used as a prison by the Furies, that Glass brought up as a possibility for scaling Kratos. He's freed by the Gods who use him as a weapon during the Titan War and is explicitly stated by the devs to be incredibly powerful, either matching or surpassing the Titans.

He has no profile but he is partially used as scaling on Zeus' profile, where these scans can be found and is the first victim of the Furies, something brought up earlier on. @BEASTHEART880 did raise the possibility he was depowered but this is, admittedly, one possibility that isn't confirmed or denied to my knowledge.

I'm torn in terms of which side has my full support. I'm not certain I agree 100% with either.

I can concede to a Possibly 7-B based off the magic stuff for Kratos if that helps but I'm fervent on the Redeemed Warrior. They have no real evidence for scaling to the likes of Kratos beyond certain weapons and the Spear is the one confirmedly 7-B statement in their favour.

 

[Planck69]

Sorry if this is somewhat unrelated but where and how did we agree upon Poseidon's rage being Deconstruction?

 

[Hellbeast]

It was a hax additions thread that I vaguely remember 2Cool making

I think it was that and the Eye of Atlantis that was agreed as Deconstruction

Originally it was part of the “higher with magic” ideas

 

[Planck69]

Oh, alright then.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oh. So one of the storm feats is also based on a Zeus-tier?

Then yeah I'm 100% for axing it unless better support feats can be provided. What would be the next best feat after general storms?

 

[Hellbeast]

Oh. So one of the storm feats is also based on a Zeus-tier?

Nah it’s just Aegean, the storm feat was done by someone who tortured him but there’s no reason to assume they scale (since they have tons of ways torment without physical pain)

Storm feat isn’t Zeus Tier

 

[Hellbeast]

I would note Tisiphone creates a moon in her illusions so we could be looking at higher then 7-B if it’s accepted.

No one’s argued for it, just pointing out it’s there

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

I would note Tisiphone creates a moon in her illusions so we could be looking at higher then 7-B if it’s accepted.

No one’s argued for it, just pointing out it’s there

Yes. It's the second tier 5 feat for GOW, first being the hammer of Atlas. Might actually be higher than that cause the world in the Greek reality in GOW is a giant disk. Someone brought up this up in a previous thread. The moon feat helps a lot. It was hiding in plain sight. Though I think upgrades wouldn't be too bad. Kratos has a typhoon sealed within the Blades of Chaos. Typhoons are this powerful (no longer having linking issues thank God) Here's another study from NASA. Also the Initial sea feat was calced at Island level using a certain method I believe.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

oh, you confused me for a moment then

I am still neutral then overall, though leaning in favor of Hellbeast's proposal.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yes. It's the second tier 5 feat for GOW, first being the hammer of Atlas.

In fairness the Atlas Hammer is a top tier weapon so we probably shouldn’t be using it here

Might actually be higher than that cause the world in the Greek reality in GOW is a giant disk. Someone brought up this up in a previous thread. The moon feat helps a lot. It was hiding in plain sight. Though I think upgrades wouldn't be too bad. Kratos has a typhoon sealed within the Blades of Chaos. Typhoons are this powerful (no longer having linking issues thank God) Here's another study from NASA. Also the Initial sea feat was calced at Island level using a certain method I believe.

Yeah with Poseidon Ice, thing is I’m unsure whether or not it would be general tiering. Even ignoring the Universal stuff we mostly split ice creation from other stuff

oh, you confused me for a moment then

Sorry

I am still neutral then overall, though leaning in favor of Hellbeast's proposal.

Thanks, I’ve notified some staff to take another look at the new arguments so hopefully we can wrap this up

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

In fairness the Atlas Hammer is a top tier weapon so we probably shouldn’t be using it here

We also see warriors battle evenly against other warriors who have it and clash their own weapons against, but I understand where you're coming from.

Yeah with Poseidon Ice, thing is I’m unsure whether or not it would be general tiering. Even ignoring the Universal stuff we mostly split ice creation from other stuff

This makes sense I suppose. But Glass argument on the magic system Shananagans makes it kinda considerable.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Note Overlord got downgraded due to using an ice calc(even if it was wrong in the first place)

For the record I still agree with Hellbeast

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

That is considerable

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like we currently have too much disagreement from staff and knowledgeable members for this revision to be accepted. I think that there is likely more support for it than against, but not enough.

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Yes. Too divisive. I've come to agree with Glass and Gilver, and think the ratings are fine where they are. But I'll welcome any new arguments.

But I agree with Hellbeast on certain things, like the Furies page being separated.