Giratina and Arceus Question

[Le'garde273]

So recently i read "Pokemon Called God"

It said giratina is
• a embodies all of the "opposite/reflection", or simply "nothingness"
•the distortion world itself, the world of anti-matter that does not really exist, a place of nothing.
• Its no time,no space,no law, even spirit a fundamental concept(?)
• The Distortion world is a strange place where up and down have no meaning
• Cyrus also state that Distortion world is a :
"There is a nothing here, and there's nothing to here"
" What i seek is a world one that requires no spirit. A perfect world"
"Yes, this place of nothingness is what i sought"

And also this Masuda statement
“Yes. It exists but it actually doesn’t. It doesn’t exist but it does. That sort of thing. The mountain exists on the lake through human eyes, but it’s only a reflection and doesn’t exist."

So my point is
Doesn't this already cover the criteria for becoming a non-existence physiology?


And for Arceus my question is :
Doesn't Arceus get transduality according this

"This fits with the character, since according to Masuda, Arceus is the "God who Transcends Everything" (すべてを超越した神)"

 

[Thelastmlg]

First one got brought up before and apparentely it contradicted other showings of the distortion world, that or it wasn't literal idk, i want NEP 1 giratina.

Never saw that arceus statement, what's the source, if it is legit than unfortunately it wouldn't mean much by itself, at best it would make arceus scale above the cosmology which he kinda already does, though wih more context it could grant something more

 

[Le'garde273]

First one got brought up before and apparentely it contradicted other showings of the distortion world, that or it wasn't literal idk, i want NEP 1 giratina.

Never saw that arceus statement, what's the source, if it is legit than unfortunately it wouldn't mean much by itself, at best it would make arceus scale above the cosmology which he kinda already does, though wih more context it could grant something more

Yeah, yes i feel so too, I'm just making sure. as in the Shaymin movie which shows that Distortion World is only really a reflection of the world above, not like in the game and the statements.

For Arceus statement, i only see in the page.

Thanks for answer

 

[Thelastmlg]

What page does that statement come from

 

[Le'garde273]

What page does that statement come from

The pokemon Called God above in Arceus segment

 

[Thelastmlg]

Ah i didn't see the link, my bad

 

[StrymULTRA]

Transduality Type 2 for Arceus? Sounds pretty based ngl.

 

[theultimate5105]

Most of the Giratina stuff wasn't used for the NEP CRT

 

[Thelastmlg]

Doesn't type 2 clash with 3? Former requires you to have no past or future versions while type 3 requires you to have them.

I still think type 3 is just immortality type 8 and acausality type 1.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Doesn't type 2 clash with 3? Former requires you to have no past or future versions while type 3 requires you to have them.

Check again.

 

[theultimate5105]

Doesn't type 2 clash with 3? Former requires you to have no past or future versions while type 3 requires you to have them.

I still think type 3 is just immortality type 8 and acausality type 1.

Transduality not Acasuality

 

[Thelastmlg]

Edit only went after i posted it

 

[deonment]

Transduality Type 2 for Arceus? Sounds pretty based ngl.

it wouldnt be type 2, it would be type 1

 

[Everything12]

Honestly I'm fine with the Giratina thing, can't remember why it was denied before.

As for Arceus. Too vague, it wouldn't give anything.

 

[theultimate5105]

Honestly I'm fine with the Giratina thing, can't remember why it was denied before.

As for Arceus. Too vague, it wouldn't give anything.

Giratina was denied for it being not enough info for the ability and beings existing in it
but that was only with a single scan when with this blog it has way more to justify it

 

[GyroNutz]

I remember when NEP was brought up before it was talking about the idea of the chaos and turmoil before creation. This seems much more clear than before, though it would only be NEP type 1.

As for transduality, that could be feasible? The quote alone is vague, but Arceus being beyond the dualities presented by Cyrus (time and space, real and distortion world) is supported.

 

[Le'garde273]

I was wondering, what if the arceus context transcends everything leading to any duality or even three since all legendary pokemon present dualities such as xerneas and yveltal (life & death or destruction) zekrom and reshiram ( yin & yang/truth or ideals) and many others legendary and upcoming, not just palkia dialga and giratina as gyro said

 

[theultimate5105]

I was wondering, what if the arceus context transcends everything leading to any duality or even three since all legendary pokemon present dualities such as xerneas and yveltal (life & death or destruction) zekrom and reshiram ( yin & yang/truth or ideals) and many others legendary and upcoming, not just palkia dialga and giratina as gyro said

Yeah legendaries seem to be full of various dualities

 

[GyroNutz]

Arceus is directly stated to be "Beyond time and space" in Mystery Dungeon, as shown in Executor's blog, which as previously stated is described by Cyrus as a double spiral akin to that of DNA. This at least would probably be Transduality (Type 1).

 

[Thelastmlg]

If we can take that whole "transcedence" and "beyond" as being above the dualities, than i agree with transduality, espwcially given the lower gods also work with fualities like ultimate mentioned.

So how many dualities would we be including.

 

[theultimate5105]

If we can take that whole "transcedence" and "beyond" as being above the dualities, than i agree with transduality, espwcially given the lower gods also work with fualities like ultimate mentioned.

So how many dualities would we be including.

At least Time-Space and Existence-Nonexistence
It could be more encompassing other legendary dualities but those are the CT ones

 

[NeoZex6399]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

If we can take that whole "transcedence" and "beyond" as being above the dualities, than i agree with transduality, espwcially given the lower gods also work with fualities like ultimate mentioned.

So how many dualities would we be including.

The highball is taking "God who transcends everything" literally, which would probably be type 2. That'd include stuff like Life and Death, Earth and Water, Truth and Ideals (which are explicitly related together with the Yin and Yang). I think it's more reasonable to say that Arceus is beyond the dualities of the Creation Trio (Time + Space, Matter + Anti-Matter) as that's more explicit (Type 1).

 

[Le'garde273]

Can i ask about how large baseline is god tier pokemon omnipresent is?

 

[TheGatememer]

Can i ask about how large baseline is god tier pokemon omnipresent is?

it's Baseline 2-A Omnipresence. It was a lot higher back then, but standards changed.

 

[theultimate5105]

Can i ask about how large baseline is god tier pokemon omnipresent is?

2-A is baseline because going above baseline is nigh impossible
2-B is countless x 60 million for CT and Lake Trio and countless x 120 million for Arceus

 

[GyroNutz]

Can i ask about how large baseline is god tier pokemon omnipresent is?

For 2-B, it's number of games sold (with confirmed parallel universes) * number of confirmed "linked worlds" (spirit world, Bronzong's world, creation trio worlds etc) * many worlds interpretation. So 79 million * 5 or so * countless, or 395 million * countless. Less for Dialga, Palkia and Giratina because they aren't a part of each other's respective worlds

Then 2-A is baseline cause standards

 

[Le'garde273]

it's Baseline 2-A Omnipresence. It was a lot higher back then, but standards changed.

Yes, that was what i mean, just make sure about pokemon cosmology with new standard

 

[StrymULTRA]

Basing on our Transduality types:

• Type 1 (Specific Transduality): Being qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of one or several specific dual systems.
• Type 2 (False General Transduality): Being qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of all dual systems and concepts within the scope of an entire level of reality. Any non 1-A (Outerverse level) characters who transcend duality at a basic level would also qualify for this level, as space and time can be thought of as dual concepts, as well as existing within/outside spatio-temporal dimensionality.

I think Type 1 fits more as Arceus at best would trascend the few dualities of the legendaries, rather than literally all of the possible dualities that someone can think of.

 

[Le'garde273]

Ok with new NEP standards,
Can we get this type for god tier pokemon

Aspect of Nonexistence
Type 1 : since god pokemon is predate soul(?) and immunity to soul manipulation
Type 2 : for Giratina with reason above post since in distortion world is just nothingness, it's no space, it's no time, it's no law, even Concept of spirit
Type 5 : also for giratina with the same reason above since spirit is a fundamental aspect/concept

 

[GyroNutz]

Type 1 aspect definitely, not sure about types 2 + 5.

 

[NeoZex6399]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

Is there anything else that needs answering here? Or should I move this to content revision board so that the profiles could be revised?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Is there anything else that needs answering here? Or should I move this to content revision board so that the profiles could be revised?

Let the blog be finished first.

 

[Kowalski]

I remember when NEP was brought up before it was talking about the idea of the chaos and turmoil before creation. This seems much more clear than before, though it would only be NEP type 1.

As for transduality, that could be feasible? The quote alone is vague, but Arceus being beyond the dualities presented by Cyrus (time and space, real and distortion world) is supported.

Can transduality type 2 interact with nep 2 ? Or it can't because Transduality type 2 only govern the scope of an entire level of reality, but not non-existence that's irrelevant to the reality itself ?

 

[GyroNutz]

Can transduality type 2 interact with nep 2 ? Or it can't because Transduality type 2 only govern the scope of an entire level of reality, but not non-existence that's irrelevant to the reality itself ?

I'd say yes, NEP type 2 can be thought of as a form of transduality.

 

[hajime]

I'd say yes, NEP type 2 can be thought of as a form of transduality.

Is Transduality 2 accepted for arceus ? or type 1 ?

 

[hajime]

Type 1 aspect definitely, not sure about types 2 + 5.

maybe it will work https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Distortion_World You may see more details here

 

[Kowalski]

I'd say yes, NEP type 2 can be thought of as a form of transduality

Isn't nep 2 is neither nonexistence (0) nor existence (1), then how nep can be thought as a form of binary ? And the user usually have low degree of transduality also. Or depending on the aspects ?

 

[GyroNutz]

Is Transduality 2 accepted for arceus ? or type 1 ?

Neither is accepted as such, this is a Q+A thread. But it'd be type 1 unless we take the "God who transcends everything" thing very literally.

Isn't nep 2 is neither nonexistence (0) nor existence (1), then how nep can be thought as a form of binary ? And the user usually have low degree of transduality also. Or depending on the aspects ?

Nonexistence and existence is a binary, NEP2 means the user exists outside of that binary.