Giorno vs Hades

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Just to clarify some things here is the reasons why GER wins.

GER has been able to manipulate Casualty on a 4D scale via manipulating casualty despite time and space not even existing anymore. I think this would go without saying that because GER can manipulate the casualty of universes which lack space or time I say that GER can manipulate the casualty of Hades's actions and death.

Plus I asked Matt wether he thinks Hades is Acasual and he says that he does not think so... So I would now like either you or him show to me concrete scans and evidence that Hades is indeed acasual. I had to do so prior so it makes things fair.

 

[Tivanenk]

I certainly don't see him saying that. And ACF is on my side as well.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

He literally told me he himself does not think so. But yeah lets wait a response from Matt just to let you know I was not lying or something like that.

 

[Gabriel_00]

If i remember right it was accepted that GER moving outside of time was more like a hax imunity therefore he doesn't have infinite speed

LOD only works if the person dies, in the manga it's activated after Diavolo dies by GER hands

i would say it's inconclusive or Hades blitz and kills Giorno

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

No Gabriel.

 

[Gabriel_00]

But, if GER has infinite speed, why Dio could react to it? (Araki supervised Eyes of Heaven)

 

[Gabriel_00]

Also, in To Aru Majutsu no Index, when Othinus destroys the universe Touma starts walk around and he is still peak human.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Because if there's no space there's no speed as no distance is travelled.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

But, if GER has infinite speed, why Dio could react to it? (Araki supervised Eyes of Heaven)

DIO had gained a new stand which allowed it to surpass Giorno's stand and so on. So therefore via powerscaling it also gets the Infinite speed rank.

Also let me say again. EOH is not a good way to gague GER's powers because the story itself is non canon. It even ends with all characters being alive and Jotaro being with his daughter in part 4. It does not work at all.

Plus the To Aru Majutsu thing is irrelevant. I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Just to let you know Hades is not acasual.

Yes he may exist outside of space/time but that does not equal him to being above the laws of cause and effect. Me and Lord Kav had a little chat and he enlightened me about this saying that feats such as tanking the history of his atoms being changed to the big bangs only counts as High Degree Spatial resistance. Not Acasualty.

Hades is absoultely vulnerable towards GER's cause and effect abilities and would suffer a horrific defeat as soon as Giorno lands his LOD punch and other HAX abilities.

You will need to provide me very specific proof showcasing a Acasual Hades. He needs to hit this criteria specifically

Unless you show proof that specifically shows or tells us that Hades is above the laws of Casualty you have no case and Hades dies a terrible death.

Resisting energy/matter destroying or dimension-destroying attacks does not merit acausality.

 

[Tivanenk]

Matthew already did with the scythe that overwrites a person's history (as in, causality manipulation).

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Again unless Hades is specifically said to be an Acasual being anything he tries to do against GER will be for nought and he will get his willpower sapped and then right afterwards given the LOD punch.

Plus GER is an acasual being in of itself. That Scythe wont do jack..

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Alright this thread seems to be pretty much concluded now.

GER takes the win because Hades is not a acasual being whatsoever. And therefore GER can use its Casualty hax to remove willpower and send Hades in a indefinate death loop. Plus the ungodly speed advantage.

It is best if one only makes an objection if they can prove the following.

Hades is an acasual being (State specific statement/feat where he is above the laws of cause and effect)

Hades is higher dimensional than Gold Experience Requiem (State specific statement or feat showing this)

Unless the following can be proved GER takes the win.

 

[Tivanenk]

That's just your opinion from milking a statement. Most agree that it's either stalemate or Hades' victory.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

That's just your opinion from milking a statement. Most agree that it's either stalemate or Hades' victory.

People coming in for there 2 cents on who wins does not really mean anything. If any party provides a good enough reason for why the other wins then that is all that should be accepted rather than votes.

Also no statements were being milked at all. I showed you what Diavolo said and told you exactly how that equates to him erasing space/time. Even a few users here agreed with me when that was posted up.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think this is at best inconclusive, and I mean this in a way that's not leaning to either side.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

You see if we were matching them up stats alone I would be inclined to believe that this is inconclusive.

However when Hades has no defense against GER's casualty manipulation then the possibilty of inconclusive just seems impossible in this fight. Nobody has proved me wrong on my conclusion that GER wins as of now and I doubt somebody will either.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

^ I second this.

 

[QPower]

I'll say Inconclusive, it took goddess Athena's Nike Staff + her divine cosmo + all of the other divine saints cosmos to be channeled into the Divine Nike Staff to be able seal Hades off or kill him.

Regular conventional attacks is not eneough to KO him or kill him. It major divine cosmo energy to do it.

Sure Giorno might be able to hurt him but not gonna be able to beat him. But at the same time Giorno might have enough hax resistence to not lose the fight either

 

[QPower]

Whay can't we use stronger Saint Seiya guys for this thread?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I'll say Inconclusive, it took goddess Athena's Nike Staff + her divine cosmo + all of the other divine saints cosmos to be channeled into the Divine Nike Staff to be able seal Hades off or kill him.
Regular conventional attacks is not eneough to KO him or kill him. It major divine cosmo energy to do it.

Sure Giorno might be able to hurt him but not gonna be able to beat him. But at the same time Giorno might have enough hax resistence to not lose the fight either

LOD punch is not in any way Conventional. It works via using casualty in offensive measures. And because Hades is not an acasual being he will have his death put to zero and it will loop indefinately.

 

[Gabriel_00]

But he needs to die first.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

But he needs to die first.

GER


"WHOEVER IS HIT BY THIS ABILLITY WILL EVEN HAVE HIS DEATH TURNED TO ZERO"

I sent this to you like 5 times already and you still somehow cannot comprehend this.

 

[Tivanenk]

Yeah, that's if he's hit by the ability and then proceeds to die.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Saying that hades is going to die over and over if he is hit by GER is like saying the action of him throwing a punch is goint to be turned to 0 without him throwing one.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Yeah, that's if he's hit by the ability and then proceeds to die.

Hades will be hit because of GER having infinite speed. And Hades will proceed to die because he is not immune to casualty and therefore will not be able to tank the attack.

 

[Tivanenk]

Tank what attack? You do know that GER needed to use a scorpion to kill Diavolo, right? Nothing GER has can kill Hades.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah, that's if he's hit by the ability and then proceeds to die.

I don't think people understand...

I think we need comprehensive proof that Diavolo was indeed killed by GER because of the effects of this ability and not because he was punched to death.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Tank what attack? You do know that GER needed to use a scorpion to kill Diavolo, right? Nothing GER has can kill Hades.

Are you trying to take the piss or something? GER was not trying to kill Diavolo with the scorpion GER "killed" Diavolo by using the LOD punch which activates on hit.

Using PIS moments such as this is never taken into consideration into a VS debate.

Also the proof is in the power description itself. GER only needs to hit someone for its abilities to activate that is literally all you need. @Sir Oven

 

[Tivanenk]

Actually, he killed the boss with a "Muda muda". Just brute force, that's it. The fact that his scorpion hit Diavolo and didn't lock him into a LOD proves this.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Did you ever try to consider that the Muda beatdown was put in there for stylistic purposes? Also I find it funny that you were taking King Crimson's ability description from face value but as soon as you see GER's you instantly try to debunk it.

Also did you try to consider that when it meas "hit by this ability" it means from the stand itself rather than any constructs it creates?

Your argument is like saying GER does not sap willpower because Diavolo was moving when it was activated etc.

 

[Tivanenk]

Hits by this ability has even his death repeated. That's it. I'm not debunking it. You're reading into it incorrectly. It doesn't say that his hits cause instant death. It says that anyone affected by it will have his death repeated.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Hits by this ability has even his death repeated. That's it. I'm not debunking it. You're reading into it incorrectly. It doesn't say that his hits cause instant death. It says that anyone affected by it will have his death repeated.

"WHOEVER IS HIT BY THIS ABILLITY WILL EVEN HAVE HIS DEATH TURNED TO ZERO"

This is what the stand description says. It literally states that whatever GER hits will have its own death turned back to zero which can essentially mean instant death. I have no clue how you cannot interpret this.

"It says that anyone affected by it will have his death repeated." You're beginning to lie now and therefore I have lost ALL interest in debating with you further.

Now I just want some people to look through this thread carefully and without bias and come up with a winner.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Leaving my Bias to the side...

I think Giorno wins by a hair.

 

[Tivanenk]

I think it's inconclusive at best and a win for Hades at worst.

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

Giorno doesn't win.

GER wins here, it's his stand that wins due to HAX, without it he's either a normal human or a vampire.

So yeah, I go for GER here as Austrian mean meat provided some good explanations and backed his points up.

 

[Gabriel_00]

GER's powers are escentialy turn things to 0, when the enemy dies his death is turned to 0 and then he dies again thats how it works. Doesn't make sense for GER have some weird insta kill power out of nowhere.

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

GER's powers are escentialy turn things to 0, when the enemy dies his death is turned to 0 and then he dies again thats how it works. Doesn't make sense for GER have some weird insta kill power out of nowhere.

I am so done lol

Austrian-Man-Meat, you may answer this yourself.

(Also it's essentially not escentialy, please check spelling lol)

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

As said before. Read the stands description and look at it for yoursel. If it makes sense or not does not matter Gabriel. I am now done with this topic.

 

[Gabriel_00]

I'm not gonna change your opinion, do whatever you like with this thread (also english is not my native language).