Giorno vs Hades

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

So it's basically instant teleportation and erasing Giorno while hiding his bloodlust and presence meaning GER cant react as there is no threat.

 

[Gabriel_00]

As far as i remember GER isn't considered to have infinite speed anymore, also the infinite death loop is activated only if the enemy is killed. I'd say inconclusive, Hades can't kill Giorno but GER lacks the AP.

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

As far as i remember GER isn't considered to have infinite speed anymore, also the infinite death loop is activated only if the enemy is killed. I'd say inconclusive, Hades can't kill Giorno but GER lacks the AP.

But Hades could still win, if Hades hides his presence and bloodlust, he could teleport behind Giorno and kill him before the stand could even do anything, it won't even react since Hades can hide the threat.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

His speed was upgraded to infinite. @Gabriel

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

As far as i remember GER isn't considered to have infinite speed anymore, also the infinite death loop is activated only if the enemy is killed. I'd say inconclusive, Hades can't kill Giorno but GER lacks the AP.

But Hades could still win, if Hades hides his presence and bloodlust, he could teleport behind Giorno and kill him before the stand could even do anything, it won't even react since Hades can hide the threat.

Has Hades ever been able to hide his presence in such a way like this before?

Also as said before GER has been able to detect threats in areas where space/time were completely erased without problem at all. It even flat out denied KC's precognition where the future had Giorno killed.

So I don't see how Hades hiding his presence would really work at all and would that count as ooc? Hades is not the type to strike me as someone who hides away from his opponenets, especially one he has just encountered.

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

As far as i remember GER isn't considered to have infinite speed anymore, also the infinite death loop is activated only if the enemy is killed. I'd say inconclusive, Hades can't kill Giorno but GER lacks the AP.

But Hades could still win, if Hades hides his presence and bloodlust, he could teleport behind Giorno and kill him before the stand could even do anything, it won't even react since Hades can hide the threat.

Has Hades ever been able to hide his presence in such a way like this before?
Also as said before GER has been able to detect threats in areas where space/time were completely erased without problem at all. It even flat out denied KC's precognition where the future had Giorno killed.

So I don't see how Hades hiding his presence would really work at all and would that count as ooc? Hades is not the type to strike me as someone who hides away from his opponenets, especially one he has just encountered.

Okat that's it I am adding the Sword Of Hades.

9th Sense / Divine Cosmos, Killing Four Dimensional Beings, Destroying Souls, Destroying Minds, Opening Tears in Space, Bypassing Durability, Bypassing Cosmic Barriers, Intangibility and Invisibility (Those who do not have Divine Cosmos can't perceive it), Energy Blasts.

Hades with his sword can kill GER.

lol I like trains.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

GER can fight while time was erased, given that, it would be logical to assume that the effects of time do not affect GER. Thus I can say that any reaction, movement, or attack that GER makes would take no time at all, correct? Given this, I would say that GER would be able to toutch Hades, but can he harm him?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Hades with his sword can harm GER I am not arguing against that at all. However Hades would not be able to even perform actions with his sword because they would be constantly being reset over and over. There is another problem that Hades has to face, can he even tag GER at all? This is what I mean by invulnerablity.

Also GER is able to harm Hades because his durability suggests that GER's LOD punch (Loop of Death) would affect him greatly. And while I am at it Hades would not be able to see or touch GER due to it being a stand and those who are not stand users will be unable in doing this unless they are higher dimension than the stand.

Oh yea GER's willpower removal would make Hades a sitting duck for GER to wail on. Cuz Hades ain't immune to casualty.

 

[Gabriel_00]

If GER doesn't have infinite speed maybe Hades could blitz Giorno.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If we are talking about Hax, then Hades got those in spades.

He Can:

Instantly Deflect any attack that is thrown at him by those that do not possess Divine Cosmos. Even if he is not at all trying to do so, it works automatically.

He can bend space-time on universal scales. He even created the Hyperdimension, where space and time are distorted and those that do not have Divine Blood are either instantly destroyed at a subatomic level, or fall endlessly down black holes.

He can reality warp and manipulate matter on a subatomic, or even quantic scale if we are powerscaling from Episode G (Leo Aiolia was able to punch Photon particles), or even multi-universal scales, as his mere will sustained the existence of three universes.

He can attack souls and attack minds.

His sword is untangible and unperceivable by those that do not have Divine Cosmos, and it can not only ignore durability but effortlesly slice through 4-Dimensional Cosmos. His surplice is made of similar material and also grants him 4D Durability.

He can erase Giorno's existence through The Lost Canvas, if we are accepting that ability.

His servant, Thanatos, who is lightyears bellow Hades on all aspects, can will death upon mortals while staying within other planes of existence. And it works on powerful, 7th Sense user beings, such as Pandora.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Depends Gabriel. GER has the abillity to set it's opponents will power to 0 which could immobolise Hades. So even without infinite speed the chances of Giorno still winning is present

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

If we are talking about Hax, then Hades got those in spades.
He Can:

Instantly Deflect any attack that is thrown at him by those that do not possess Divine Cosmos. Even if he is not at all trying to do so, it works automatically.

He can bend space-time on universal scales. He even created the Hyperdimension, where space and time are distorted and those that do not have Divine Blood are either instantly destroyed at a subatomic level, or fall endlessly down black holes.

He can reality warp and manipulate matter on a subatomic, or even quantic scale if we are powerscaling from Episode G (Leo Aiolia was able to punch Photon particles), or even multi-universal scales, as his mere will sustained the existence of three universes.

He can attack souls and attack minds.

His sword is untangible and unperceivable by those that do not have Divine Cosmos, and it can not only ignore durability but effortlesly slice through 4-Dimensional Cosmos. His surplice is made of similar material and also grants him 4D Durability.

He can erase Giorno's existence through The Lost Canvas, if we are accepting that ability.

His servant, Thanatos, who is lightyears bellow Hades on all aspects, can will death upon mortals while staying within other planes of existence. And it works on powerful, 7th Sense user beings, such as Pandora.

(Sorry for quoting your rather long wall of text. I want you to know that I am replying to you exactly.)

Hades does have extremely versatile Hax but I doubt they would be of much use against Gold Expierence Requiem.

Instantly Deflecting any attacks I have already explained about previously. GER has the power to reset the deflection back to zero nullifying its effects completely. There is also the argument that the deflection would not even harm GER because Hades himself is not a stand user and theoretically cannot even harm nor see it.

GER would easily survive in the hyperdimension. It has existed being in a state where time/space were completely erased and was even able to restore it too via its own hax.

Manipulating matter/souls or such is useless against someone who can turn the actions back to zero. Effectivley preventing Hades from even using these moves.

The sword in theory would be able to cut through Gold Expierence Requeim if it was touched by it but the possibility of this happening is almost none thanks to its infinite speeds and being able to reset Hades's action to zero to prevent him from cutting or slashing anyone.

The conclusion is this.

Hades's durability makes him very vulnerable to Gold Expierence Requiem's hax of turning actions,willpower and death back into zero. And because Hades requires actions to pull of many of his moves it basically makes him unable to do anything. Then again the willpower removal would also make Hades unable to even be able to move an inch.

But don't mistake GER for being the walking NLF. It's abilities have limits such as not affecting acasual or higher dimensional beings. And because Hades is neither of these it puts him at a horrific disadvantage.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

If GER doesn't have infinite speed maybe Hades could blitz Giorno.

He does have infinite speed...

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

But Hades with his Surplice and Sword Of Hades is a 4th dimensional character is he not.

Meaning GERs HAX would not work on him since he is a higher dimensional being.

And I highly doubt GER would even know about any of Hades abilities to nullify them, wouldn't he have to see it?

I'm sure GER cannot sense a mind attack, before he even nullifies it, Hades could attack his mind.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Anything in the Low 2-C tier can count as a 4th dimensional being. Also GER not needing space/time to survive would also secure his place as a 4th dimensional being. They are on the same footing in the dimensions category.

GER does not need knowledge on what it needs to nullify. As soon as it detects any threats in the vicinity there willpower and actions will all just be reset to 0. Hence it being able to nullify KC's absolute precognition and Universal time/space erasure with no trouble whatsoever. GER managed to deny something that was bound to happen in the future... Think about that for a second.

Again most of Hades's actions require actions to be pulled off and they will just be put to zero. The removal of willpower on its own would probably leave Hades unable to use any telepathy at all actually.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Anything in the Low 2-C tier can count as a 4th dimensional being.

No. There are such things as 3D beings with the power of 4D beings. See Janemba (Budokai.)

 

[Gabriel_00]

Diavolo only erased time.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Anything in the Low 2-C tier can count as a 4th dimensional being.

No. There are such things as 3D beings with the power of 4D beings. See Janemba (Budokai.)

Huh I thought destroying a 4 Dimensional universal space time should qualify you as being as 4D being. Also existing outside of Space/Time should be classifiable as being 4D as many people on the chat have told me (Cant remember who told me exactly)

Oh yea Gabriel, King Crimson completely makes the world dissapear as shown when he activates it. So in conclusion it erases Space/Time also. Before you nitpick about the word dissapear being used it can mean something which ceases to exist or is erased. And due to KC's range being universal we know that space/time within it is being erased.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Yes, existing outside of space-time qualifies you as a 4D being, not destroying a space-tine continuum. They are two very different requirements. Not everyone who can destroy a space-time continuum also exists outside space and time.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Yes, existing outside of space-time qualifies you as a 4D being, not destroying a space-tine continuum. They are two very different requirements. Not everyone who can destroy a space-time continuum also exists outside space and time.

Well shit. GER being 4D can really make a lot of Low 2-C/2-C matchups incredibly unfair then..

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

A 3-D being can interact and even defeat a 4-D being if they have higher dimensional manipulation abilities.

Also, I thought GER only transcends time?

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

Yes, existing outside of space-time qualifies you as a 4D being, not destroying a space-tine continuum. They are two very different requirements. Not everyone who can destroy a space-time continuum also exists outside space and time.

Well shit. GER being 4D can really make a lot of Low 2-C/2-C matchups incredibly unfair then..

GER only nullifies threats that endanger Giornos life am I right?

If so, Hades can still attack Giornos mind, it won't kill him or harm him.

Just **** his mind up.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

A 3-D being can interact and even defeat a 4-D being if they have higher dimensional manipulation abilities.
Also, I thought GER only transcends time?

Thats what I thought too. But upon the realisation that King Crimson erases both space/time thats how I came to this conclusion.

I had a discussion with someone on the JoJo wikia and was given some decent scans to work with

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Yes, existing outside of space-time qualifies you as a 4D being, not destroying a space-tine continuum. They are two very different requirements. Not everyone who can destroy a space-time continuum also exists outside space and time.

Well shit. GER being 4D can really make a lot of Low 2-C/2-C matchups incredibly unfair then..

GER only nullifies threats that endanger Giornos life am I right?
If so, Hades can still attack Giornos mind, it won't kill him or harm him.

Just **** his mind up.

If Hades tries to do a telepathic assault to Giorno (Which is very unlikely due to his willpower being sapped away before he would even do this) then GER would protect Giorno at all costs and reset that action instantly.

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

Yes, existing outside of space-time qualifies you as a 4D being, not destroying a space-tine continuum. They are two very different requirements. Not everyone who can destroy a space-time continuum also exists outside space and time.

Well shit. GER being 4D can really make a lot of Low 2-C/2-C matchups incredibly unfair then..

GER only nullifies threats that endanger Giornos life am I right?
If so, Hades can still attack Giornos mind, it won't kill him or harm him.

Just **** his mind up.

If Hades tries to do a telepathic assault to Giorno (Which is very unlikely due to his willpower being sapped away before he would even do this) then GER would protect Giorno at all costs and reset that action instantly.

Then Giorno shouldn't even be Tier 2.

Only things that can apparently defeat him is either a being that's 5 dimensional or higher or a being that has acausality.

So it should not be Tier 2 as 90% of all characters in Tier 2 will lose due that HAX shit.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Many tier 2 characters can speed blitz him. Not Hades unfortunately.

Also, don't quote back and forth. You'll make the thread increasingly hard to read.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Well the conclusion is basically the same as last time. Hades is not acasual,higher dimensional or has the speed to even fight with GER. And therefore is left vulnerable to it's hax which has a very high chance of one shotting him via LOD punch.

Any objections to this?

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

Diavolo just erases time. You've already brought that subject and you've already been told that here it can just be considered as a visual effect. Besides, there is the description given by the author: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:King_Crimson_Stats.png (It only erases time).

Now, its kind of interesting the matter of turning will power to 0, since Hades has the Big Will, allowing him a source of power and existence without boundaries, being a gift beyond human comprehension.

In another subject, here we consider GER having infinite speed as we can see during his fight against Diavolo, but Giorno himself, the stand user, is still affected by the time erasing, so GER has infinite speed, Giorno don't.

By the way, I'm going to assume that Hades won't use his automatic attack reflection, his automatic death induction and he can't see GER.

For sure Hades will try slicing him and probably his action will be turned to 0. If Hades gives a second try, the result will likely be the same. Sure, is not like GER won't attack, but his only attack that has shown a "Universal+ level" potency is his "Infinite Death Loop" punch... But how it is supposed to work on someone with immortality type 4?. At this point, the fight seems inconclusive.

But if we take account on what 007Goldeneye, and Hades tries some sneaking tactics, he only needs to cross to one of his Universes and tear apart Giorno with his cosmic scale telekinesis. After all, GER himself said that the ones in front of him won't be able to take action. (Even if we think in that thing of GER cross-dimensional range, it only has shown working after landing a succesful hit, but there is the immortality type 4 again).

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ok. But how is Hades being capable of both shielding himself from physical, spiritual and mental attacks through his Four Dimensional Cosmos not taken as a factor?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Shepard it was only called a visual effect because at the time I had no concrete proof about the world actually being erased.




Diavolo clearly mentions that within the 0.5 seconds of erased time everything in the world also disapears (Which means ceases to be or is erased) . And we know that when he says world this guy is talking about the Universe due to its confirmed range.So KC erasing time/space is a huge possibility. Also someone gave me quite the reply study it and see what you make of it.

"I don't know if it's that he forgot or that it was kind of an already implied feature. Like, in general the concept of Time Stop shouldn't have anything to do with the ability to interact with other objects in frozen time. It's just a feature that's indicative of fictional writing. Similarly, if one were to have the ability to erase time, but also experience it simultaneously then, much like time stop where you assume that not only time but the environment is also frozen, one should also be able to witness the environment being erased as time is. The concept of manipulating time ultimately forces time and space to become two sides of the same coin. It's related to the theory of relatively, which Araki demonstrates more clearly through Made in Heaven."

Here is the thread if you want it.

I don't only have a statement which proves Diavolo erases time/space I also have some damn good opinions too now.

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

@Matthew Schroeder Why do you ask?

@Austrian-Man-Meat Hmm, that looks fine, actually. This could be material for an upgrade for Diavolo.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

@Matthew Schroeder Why do you ask?@Austrian-Man-Meat Hmm, that looks fine, actually. This could be material for an upgrade for Diavolo.

However I am not really sure on if this really does upgrade Diavolo at all. If he tries to attack anyone within the erased time/space then nothing happens at all. It's why he has to know future movements via epitaph to formulate strategies etc. However if Diavolo is being upgraded on the premise of basically erasing the universe for a short length of time then I don't really have qualms with it.

But yeah no that whole time/space thing is answered and out of the way I will actually debate the fight xD

Having immortality 4 does not give the user immunity to death, the possibility of death is still present. And GER uses his punch to reset that death he may have in the future and just return it back to zero and put him in that loop. It works because Hades has no immunity towards GER's attacks.

GER never says anything about something being infront of him. All GER says specifically is this "Those who stand before me" which is really up for interpretation to be honest.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

So basically.

GER can give Hades the LOD punch because there is still a possibility that Hades can die. And all actions that Hades would try to stop it would be futile because he is not immune to casualty nor is he higher dimensional.

Any objections about this?

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

So basically.
GER can give Hades the LOD punch because there is still a possibility that Hades can die. And all actions that Hades would try to stop it would be futile because he is not immune to casualty nor is he higher dimensional.

Any objections about this?

LOD punch only works if somebody dies.

This is inconclusive.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

LOD punch works as soon as it hits the target. The punch resets whatever death they have by zero and repeats there death indefinately.In other words this is going to hurt Hades.. A lot.

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

LOD punch works as soon as it hits the target. The punch resets whatever death they have by zero and repeats there death indefinately.In other words this is going to hurt Hades.. A lot.

It can't kill Hades, hence inconclusive.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Hades is not above the concept of death. If he was then this match would be inconclusive. But because Hades can still die he would not be able to tank the punch.

Let me repeat to you what the LOD punch does it would take his death and place it smack dab to 0. Therefore making him expierence death over and over again.

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

Hades is not above the concept of death. If he was then this match would be inconclusive. But because Hades can still die he would not be able to tank the punch.
Let me repeat to you what the LOD punch does it would take his death and place it smack dab to 0. Therefore making him expierence death over and over again.

Well I'm not an expert on either, so I'll just wait to see if anyone disagrees.

I'll stick with inconclusive, if nobody disagrees I'll go for GER just to make sure.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Ill wait out for any further objections also. But until that happens Giorno should take the win via Hades not being able to counter anything GER has.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I doubt GER would affect Hades's soul. Even Gods on his own level can't destroy it.