Giorno vs Hades

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I doubt GER would affect Hades's soul. Even Gods on his own level can't destroy it.

But that is the beauty of GER, it won't destroy Hades soul it would just bring back to the state of zero. And therefore have his death loop indefinately. If GER destroyed things it would bring it back to nothing.

Also I myself am not sure if the LOD punch works via soul manipulation. I think its more of a casualty thing that takes the death Hades is inevitably going to have and just bring its state to zero looping it forever.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Outside of GER, how strong is Giovanna?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Giorno on his own is about the same strength as a human. But if you wanna wank things he is a dhampire so wall level sounds accurate.

 

[Tivanenk]

Hades wins. His 4-D nature means he can ignore GER's causality manipulation since he's not affected by space-time in the first place, and one must be to be affected by causality.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Hades wins. His 4-D nature means he can ignore GER's causality manipulation since he's not affected by space-time in the first place, and one must be to be affected by causality.

GER was able to manipulate casualty outside of space/time. It definately reaches 4D lengths. GER's level of casualty manipulation is enough to affect Hades.

 

[Tivanenk]

Hades wins. His 4-D nature means he can ignore GER's causality manipulation since he's not affected by space-time in the first place, and one must be to be affected by causality.

GER was able to manipulate casualty outside of space/time. It definately reaches 4D lengths. GER's level of casualty manipulation is enough to affect Hades.

No he hasn't. Diavolo is not 4D, he just used a special ability to erase time.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Hades wins. His 4-D nature means he can ignore GER's causality manipulation since he's not affected by space-time in the first place, and one must be to be affected by causality.

GER was able to manipulate casualty outside of space/time. It definately reaches 4D lengths. GER's level of casualty manipulation is enough to affect Hades.

No he hasn't. Diavolo is not 4D, he just used a special ability to erase time.

Look at my response to Shepard where I prove to him King Crimson erases time/space.

From this we know as a fact that GER itself is a 4D being who can still manipulate casualty in a state where space/time no longer function. Both Hades and GER are on the same footing with them both being 4D.

 

[Gabriel_00]

LOD works only if the target dies, because it resets the death and then the target dies again.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

LOD works only if the target dies, because it resets the death and then the target dies again.

GER

Nothing needs to die. It only needs one hit in to reset someones death.

 

[Gabriel_00]

This image doesn't prove anything.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

This image doesn't prove anything.

"WHOEVER IS HIT BY THIS ABILITIY WILL EVEN HAVE HIS DEATH TURNED TO ZERO"

There is the proof regarding that GER is a one hit kill. If you reply to me with anymore nonsense I wont bother being as patient as I am now and will ignore you....

 

[Tivanenk]

That only works if someone dies. And you didn't prove King Crimson erases 4D space-time.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

That only works if someone dies. And you didn't prove King Crimson erases 4D space-time.

I wont bother replying to the first point.

However King Crimson erases 4D space/time and the very proof of that is Giorno's tier. It shows he is capable of nullyfying an attack which can spread throughout the4 dimensional space/time continuum.

If this was wrong then Gio would only be at 3A..

Just for referennce

Also how would this even disprove the fact that GER is 4D via transcending space/time?

 

[Tivanenk]

Dude I was the one who started that in the Giorno vs Kumagawa thread. But King Crimson doesn't erase space-time. It literally states in the profile that it erases time. Period. Not space or anything else. That "disappears" thing that you showed us is that the time collapses between two points and one segment doesn't happen because King Crimson erases the time of that interval. KC doesn't erase space.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

well i think one good hit from hades can finish of giorno as we don't know if his nullifying abilities other universes and not just one really so i would give it to hades

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Dude I was the one who started that in the Giorno vs Kumagawa thread. But King Crimson doesn't erase space-time. It literally states in the profile that it erases time. Period. Not space or anything else. That "disappears" thing that you showed us is that the time collapses between two points and one segment doesn't happen because King Crimson erases the time of that interval. KC doesn't erase space.

If King Crimson does not erase space/time explain these points to me.

How is the whole world falling apart effectivley turning into void?

Why would Diavolo specifically state that the world is dissapearing?

Diavolo says that in the 0.5 seconds he has in the erased time the world disapears.

Read and study this. It was a good reply someone gave me when I made the thread.

"I don't know if it's that he forgot or that it was kind of an already implied feature. Like, in general the concept of Time Stop shouldn't have anything to do with the ability to interact with other objects in frozen time. It's just a feature that's indicative of fictional writing. Similarly, if one were to have the ability to erase time, but also experience it simultaneously then, much like time stop where you assume that not only time but the environment is also frozen, one should also be able to witness the environment being erased as time is. The concept of manipulating time ultimately forces time and space to become two sides of the same coin. It's related to the theory of relatively, which Araki demonstrates more clearly through Made in Heaven."

Reference

 

[fandom_007Goldeneye]

GER wins here.

Due to his HAX

His defence is impenetrable by all beings below 5 dimensional, you'd either have to be 5th dimensional+ or have Acausality.

Plus as for AP, he has LOD which can reset someones death to 0 and that person will keep on dying over and over for eternity.

 

[Tivanenk]

GER wins here.
Due to his HAX

His defence is impenetrable by all beings below 5 dimensional, you'd either have to be 5th dimensional+ or have Acausality.

Plus as for AP, he has LOD which can reset someones death to 0 and that person will keep on dying over and over for eternity.

Too bad Hades' sword can actually kill GER.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Yeah Hades's sword can kill GER no doubt about it. But it actually HAS to hit GER first which is nigh impossible thanks to GER's hax and hurrendous speed advantage. Plus would Hades even be able to whip out his Sword when his own willpower is being turned to 0 also?

GER has far too many advantages which Hades fails to counter.

 

[Tivanenk]

All Hades has to do is kill Giorno. That's it. And GER will have no affect on him because he's immune to causality like all those with Divine Cosmo.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

All Hades has to do is kill Giorno. That's it. And GER will have no affect on him because he's immune to causality like all those with Divine Cosmo.

Hades is not immune to casualty full stop. As stated before GER's level of Casualty Manipulation enough is potent enough to restore space/time to a 4D space-time continuum. Plus GER is 4D on the very basis of surviving in that kind of enviroment before it even used its hax. Hades will be affected due to him not being immune to that level of casualty plus he is not a higher dimensional being that GER is.

Also is there even any proof stating that those with Divine Cosmo are immune to casualty?

 

[Tivanenk]

He's acausal. He's completely located outside space-time. Even the ACF wiki agrees with me.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Don't quote large blocks of text please.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

But now you have another problem on your hands.

GER has still been able to use Casualty manipulation even outside the boundaries of Space-Time. So how will Hades tank it any better?

Also at least show some evidence regarding Hades being outside space-time.

 

[Tivanenk]

Er, no he hasn't. Space still existed as evidenced when Mista's bullets were rewinded. Sure, time was erased, but it doesn't mean anything. And you can ask Matt for evidence of titans being outside space-time (hell, even Regulus was outside space-time when he absorbed Hades' Cosmo, and he was just a human).

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Before you attempt to debunk KC not being able to erase space-time read back to what I sent to you before.

But just to make sure this gets into your head. Diavolo specifically states that within the duration that time is erased the world itself disapears also. Which means to cease to exist or being erased. Plus there is Araki being aware that manipulating time could effect space itself as a byproduct of the abilitiy as evident with Made In Heaven.

Plus Mista's bullets were rewinded when GER was restoring the erased space/time. Not when KC was activated.

 

[Tivanenk]

Before you attempt to debunk KC not being able to erase space-time read back to what I sent to you before.
But just to make sure this gets into your head. Diavolo specifically states that within the duration that time is erased the world itself disapears also. Which means to cease to exist or being erased. Plus there is Araki being aware that manipulating time could effect space itself as a byproduct of the abilitiy.

Plus Mista's bullets were rewinded when GER was restoring the erased space/time. Not when KC was activated.

Holy moley, that Diavolo statement can mean numerous things, not just space being erased. That's like taking Dio's statement of ruling the world seriously. The fact that you can see Aerosmite and Mista's bullets on panel do not help. And what, does KC also create space-time now?

 

[QPower]

I am sure there are stronger Saint Seiya characters that would be a better match up against Giorno

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Dio ruling the world only means one thing. And that means that he is able to rule across all living beings etc with Jotaro proves wrong by smashing his leg in.

Diavolo stating that "Even though I can only jump 0.5 seconds now. But in that duration everything in this world disappears!"

Can only mean one thing. He states that the whole world within that duration of 0.5 seconds has disapeared. When something disapears it means to cease to exist or be in use. There is no other way to interpret it besides him erasing time/space.

Also he only erased it for less than a second. Hence why we are still able to catch glimpses of Aerosmith and stuff. But when he uses it for longer periods of time we clearly see buildings and even streets falling into complete void.

 

[Tivanenk]

He doesn't erase space. You can literally see foreign objects all around him! And the fact that he walks on Earth as well! You're taking that statement completely out of context. He only erases time, as stated by the author himself.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

No you don't my friend. As said before when KC activates it shows entire streets and buildings fall into a dark void there are plenty of scans which are able to show debris just vanishing away from its activation.

Nothing is being taken out of context at all. Diavolo states that in his duration of time erasure everything with this world also disapears as well I am taking things quite literally to be honest with you. Plus to your last point read this whole thread again.

Plus considering how debateable this is I may consider to make another GER is 4D thread but with this more concrete evidence instead.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

The staff already refused it. Don't make a thread about it.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

The staff refuesed it because I did not provide a statement which implied Diavolo can erase space also. I only found these scans and made the thread on JoJo forums after it was refused.

In other words I have better evidence.

 

[Tivanenk]

It still doesn't change that Hades is acausal. Hades can resist weapons that can rewrite the entire history of your atoms up to the Big Bang, essentially changing causality.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

As I said before GER was able to manipulate casualty in a state where it should not even be able to exist. GER's casualty manipulation is a step above those weapons.

Also there is that whole thing where GER flat out denied Epitaphs future prediction where it showed Giorno dying.

 

[Tivanenk]

You're overblowing the effect of causality. Time is a subset of causality, not the inverse. So whether time exists or not doesn't matter. If you're immune to causality, then you're immune to causality.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

There are different levels of casualty as I have been told by members such as Azazoth and the likes. And GER's ability with it is far greater than that of the weapons used on Hades. Hence it would be able to work on him.

GER was still capable of manipulating casualty outside of space/time>Weapons used on Hades

 

[Tivanenk]

No, GER's causality is not greater, you're just overblowing its effect. It literally just negates events, like a better version of Kumagawa's All Fiction. Hades has been hit worse than that. Hell, characters below Hades have been hit worse like that by Yoma.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

No, GER's causality is not greater, you're just overblowing its effect. It literally just negates events, like a better version of Kumagawa's All Fiction. Hades has been hit worse than that. Hell, characters below Hades have been hit worse like that by Yoma.

Hades has been able to beat people who have manipulated casualty outside time/space,has infinite speed and would be able to send him into a loop of death eh?

It negates actions,willpower and death btw.

 

[Tivanenk]

No, GER's causality is not greater, you're just overblowing its effect. It literally just negates events, like a better version of Kumagawa's All Fiction. Hades has been hit worse than that. Hell, characters below Hades have been hit worse like that by Yoma.

Hades has been able to beat people who have manipulated casualty outside time/space,has infinite speed and would be able to send him into a loop of death eh?
It negates actions,willpower and death btw.

Hades was able to beat people who are completely acausal and would've whooped GER.